[Highway-Star]

OK, research time. I have roughly figured out whats involved in fitting a G16 16 valve Vit or Baleno motor to my LJ81. Its a fair chunk of work, a tad easier with a Baleno, but do-able for both with minimal lifting.



Now time to find out if the M series motor is a viable proposition
I'm not overly keen on the M13, as I think it's too small. But would like peoples info regarding the M15, M16 and M18 motors.

M15:
As I understand it, only comes from the swift. so will be a front wheel drive config, but will bolt up to an M Jimny gearbox.

M16:
I am aware of 3 possible sources? Early Liana (non VVT), some later model 1.6 GV's, and Swift Sport . Once again all should bolt up to the Jimny gearbox.

M18: Later model Lianas only. And again should bolt up to a Jimny Gearbox


I would be really really appreciative if people could measure the physical dimensions of these motors if they have access to them, or equally happy if someone in Ipswich/Brisbane Area would let me at their car to measure it
What I would like to know is:
- The overall height from the highest point on the motor, down to the bottom of the block where the sump bolts up.
- Some dimensions of the stock sumps.
- The width of the bell housing at the widest point.
- The length of the motor from the gearbox mating face to the furthest "forward" point (and what is the furthest forward point?).
- The width of the head, where the intake and exhaust bolt up.
- The width of the intake manifold (how far does it protrude from the head)


I know the wiring would likely be a pretty epic operation but meh....

Feel free to throw any other info you have regarding these engines out there... time for me to start nutting out what engine I want in the car

[BlueSuzy]

The jimny that i bought to wreck had a m13 auto in her. She went ok.

It was very tempting to put it into my lwb. But then i changed my mind twice since then on what i was doing with the lwb, and the motor sold before my last decision..

The m13a was very smooth BUT I would have to go the m18. If your doing to the trouble to make an M fit, may as well go all out for all the same dimensions externally.

But then you will need the Jimny sump and gbox, exhaust manifold, water, possibly other things to suit the engine for north/south from east/west.

The Jimny engine mounts on the chassis are flat/level inside the chassis, not on an angle like the sierra's. But things can be modified to suit.

Wiring sounds epic, but people convert their m13a jimnys to m18a. So it cant be that hard. Alot of whingers out there. But starting from scratch you will need the whole harness and key to suit the ecu.

[Highway-Star]

BlueSuzy wrote:

The jimny that i bought to wreck had a m13 auto in her. She went ok.

It was very tempting to put it into my lwb. But then i changed my mind twice since then on what i was doing with the lwb, and the motor sold before my last decision..

The m13a was very smooth BUT I would have to go the m18. If your doing to the trouble to make an M fit, may as well go all out for all the same dimensions externally.

But then you will need the Jimny sump and gbox, exhaust manifold, water, possibly other things to suit the engine for north/south from east/west.

The Jimny engine mounts on the chassis are flat/level inside the chassis, not on an angle like the sierra's. But things can be modified to suit.

Wiring sounds epic, but people convert their m13a jimnys to m18a. So it cant be that hard. Alot of whingers out there. But starting from scratch you will need the whole harness and key to suit the ecu.

So all M motors are the same external dimensions? Sweet!
In that case anyone with any model M motor able to help me with dimensions?

The Jimny sump may not help me, as I have the centred front LJ diff, quite possible a forward dropping sump like the factory F8 may still be better. Engine mounts will be completely custom. Exhaust will likely have to be a pricey custom job too, to stop it hitting the very narrow chassis rails. I know all about keys and ECU's, the G16 in my Sierra already has that feature/problem.

Cheers

[5ierra]

Could you fab your own sump up?

Also, i may have a hook up for the exhaust biznass. May be able to get it abit cheaper then you normally would???

Lemme know if you go ahead with it and what you get quoted then i can talk to them about it.

[Highway-Star]

5ierra wrote:

Could you fab your own sump up?

Also, i may have a hook up for the exhaust biznass. May be able to get it abit cheaper then you normally would???

Lemme know if you go ahead with it and what you get quoted then i can talk to them about it.

Sump could very well end up custom. Especially if I use a Vitara dizzy EFI monstrosity. This is why I am trying to find out about the M series motors, to see if they are going to be significantly easier or harder than a G16


Exhaust will have to happen no matter what goes in (unless the M's run the exhuast miraculously in the right spot! lol)....so I will definitely talk to you
Ta!

[BlueSuzy]

I think they are the same. If people "bolt them in" to Jimny's. They must be.

[Fatzook]

Have you had a think about what the piss weak jimny gearbox will do with an M16 or M18 in front of it?

[Highway-Star]

Fatzook wrote:

Have you had a think about what the piss weak jimny gearbox will do with an M16 or M18 in front of it?

I was under the impression that the guts of the Jimny box was the same as the guts of a Sierra 5 speed? if so the M16 at least should be Ok....maybe borderline with the M18?

[Fatzook]

I'm killing sierra boxes from moderate use behind a 70kw motor. The M16 is 90+ kw, and will most definately kill the sierra jimny box in a short time.

I'm not sure on the torque figures of the M18, but i reckon that the gearbox will be the weak link in this conversion.

I'm not saying it will break, just that its not the best box for a 90kw motor.

[tanshi]

j20???
vitara manual should be an ok size shouldnt it?

[Highway-Star]

Fatzook wrote:

I'm killing sierra boxes from moderate use behind a 70kw motor. The M16 is 90+ kw, and will most definately kill the sierra jimny box in a short time.

I'm not sure on the torque figures of the M18, but i reckon that the gearbox will be the weak link in this conversion.

I'm not saying it will break, just that its not the best box for a 90kw motor.

Whats failing in your gearbox? Bearings or actual shafts/gears?
My Sierras has been fine behind my G16 for the last 12 months.

Another option would be if I could find an M16 powered GV, and use the 5 speed from one of them. Probably a hens teeth pair though. Probably a large gearbox too (I know the regular Vitara 5 speed is too long, without a massive reworking).


Rounded Engine figures:


F8a: [align=center]30kw, 60Nm[/align] [align=right]LJ80[/align]
F10a: [align=center]38kw, 75Nm[/align] [align=right]SJ40[/align]

G13BA: [align=center]49kw, 101Nm[/align] [align=right]SJ70[/align]
G13B GTI: [align=center]74kw, 113Nm[/align] [align=right]Swift GTI[/align]
G13BB: [align=center]59kw, 104Nm[/align] [align=right]Early Jimny[/align]

G16 carb: [align=center]55kw, 122Nm[/align] [align=right]Early SE416[/align]
G16 Vit: [align=center] 70kw, 132Nm[/align] [align=right]EFI SE416[/align]
G16 CP: [align=center]69kw, 138Nm[/align] [align=right]Later coilpack Baleno and GV[/align]

J18a: [align=center] 89kw, 152Nm[/align] [align=right]GTX Baleno[/align]
J20a: [align=center] 97kw, 166Nm[/align] [align=right]SV420 Vit[/align]
J24b VVTI: [align=center]131kw, 230Nm[/align] [align=right]Kizashi[/align]

M13a: [align=center] 62kw, 110Nm[/align] [align=right]Mid model jimny[/align]
M13a VVTI: [align=center]63kw, 110Nm[/align] [align=right]Newer Jimny[/align]
M15 VVTI: [align=center]74kw, 133Nm[/align] [align=right]New shape swift[/align]
M16a: [align=center]76kw, 144Nm[/align] [align=right]Old Liana[/align]
M16a VVTI: [align=center]73kw 139Nm[/align] [align=right]Last 1.6 GV's[/align]
M16 Sport: [align=center]92kw, 148Nm[/align] [align=right]Swift Sport[/align]
M18a VVTI: [align=center]92kw, 170Nm[/align] [align=right] Newer Liana[/align]



I think my weak point will be the LJ80 transfer case though I'm not aiming to build something with a gearbox that needs replacing every 2 weeks....so better if people say whats what now. The 1L CV's will also get binned as soon as possible, as I know they cannot even hack an F10 in front of them.

[Fatzook]

Unless you are fitting the M16 sport or M18, this is a useless conversion.

All the dramas with wiring, immobilisers and gearboxes etc for little more power than the proven G16 swap.

And I'm on my second box. This one has been rebuilt and is dying from shaft, bearing and 5th gear wear.

[Highway-Star]

Fatzook wrote:

Unless you are fitting the M16 sport or M18, this is a useless conversion.

All the dramas with wiring, immobilisers and gearboxes etc for little more power than the proven G16 swap.

And I'm on my second box. This one has been rebuilt and is dying from shaft, bearing and 5th gear wear.

fair enough. It wouldn't be useless if the engine is significantly smaller (height wise) than a G series... But I don't if they are.

[Fatzook]

Yeah I think the M series are dimensionally very similar to the same sized G series. The M's are a smoother more refined motor though.

[royce]

One day people will suss it and it will become a common conversion I reckon, look at how 'impossible' LS1 conversions were

Fatzook being bitter cause he couldnt crack his doesnt help

[Fatzook]

royce wrote:

One day people will suss it and it will become a common conversion I reckon, look at how 'impossible' LS1 conversions were

Fatzook being bitter cause he couldnt crack his doesnt help

You are absolutely right

Nice motor for aftermarket ECU

My phobia of M-series motors aren't just limited to the electronics. The gearbox options, or lack of are a major concern.

Although the suggestion of a GV M-series with GV box sounds ok on paper, I have never seen this setup, and wonder how 'common' it would be

[royce]

look how easy making a vit box 2wd is these days

do the m series vits use the same hilux style box as the V6's? could be some 2wd options there too

[steak_knife]

royce wrote:

look how easy making a vit box 2wd is these days

do the m series vits use the same hilux style box as the V6's? could be some 2wd options there too

if you mean unbolt able, yes.

M15 can also be gotten out of a Ignis sport, high compression & different ecu to the swift's, almost primitive Immob compared to swift also..

& you'd get you elc steer!!!

[alien]

dont' know how willing they will be to share information, but Sean at suzistore is trying to get his head around the m13 swap as the g13bb are getting very hard to find to do EFI sierra conversions. might be worth a shot: www.suzistore.com.au

[Highway-Star]

steak_knife wrote:

royce wrote:

look how easy making a vit box 2wd is these days

do the m series vits use the same hilux style box as the V6's? could be some 2wd options there too

if you mean unbolt able, yes.

M15 can also be gotten out of a Ignis sport, high compression & different ecu to the swift's, almost primitive Immob compared to swift also..

& you'd get you elc steer!!!

I still need to go have a proper look at one of these!

The wiring doesn't really worry me too much, as the car will be a case of gets done when it gets done, no rush. This is so long as I can get a hold of wiring diagrams for the donor models. And I will not make the mistake of buying an incomplete loom again....

[steak_knife]

Highway-Star wrote:

I still need to go have a proper look at one of these!

The wiring doesn't really worry me too much, as the car will be a case of gets done when it gets done, no rush. This is so long as I can get a hold of wiring diagrams for the donor models. And I will not make the mistake of buying an incomplete loom again....

I know a guy.. He's a bit strange tho..

[Fatzook]

I can get my hands on most wiring diagrams for suzukis. Maybe not the swift sport though

[steak_knife]

Fatzook wrote:

I can get my hands on most wiring diagrams for suzukis. Maybe not the swift sport though

Why not?? It's a swift with disc rear..

[Fatzook]

steak_knife wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

I can get my hands on most wiring diagrams for suzukis. Maybe not the swift sport though

Why not?? It's a swift with disc rear..

There was a time when I would have bitch slapped you for sayin that

[Highway-Star]

Fatzook wrote:

I can get my hands on most wiring diagrams for suzukis. Maybe not the swift sport though

Would have thought it would be with the normal swift stuff, just as a different engine model... Thats how the GV one was for the G16 in my Sierra any way. Looking at a series of diagrams, and ignoring the bits that said J20 or H25 only...