[canberramav]

Hey guys,

I have a turbo and manifold for my zook and was wondering if anyone had done the turbo with the SPI motor.

What boost and ECU etc?

Good results?

Cheers

[Hybrid]

Have you done any research to see if the injector can handle it? I did a heap when I first got my SPI and found that many different answers for the supposed injector flow rate that I gave up. I'm running mine non-turbo with a megasquirt ECU and I find I can't get the acceleration enrichment quite right as it is. This would be compounded with a turbo. Although I've not upped the squirts per engine cycle which would make it easier.

[sleeperzook]

I think you'd find that a safe amount of boost would be no more than 10PSI. At that pressure a rising rate reg would get you over the line if your injectors struggle. I've got a turbo GTi and I've been through a few set ups to find what behaves best and IMO bigger injectors = dog idle and for me when coupled with electronic idle control it induced hunting.

Hybrid - The mega squirt is a cool computer but it only runs a 12x12 map, so the resolution its the greatest. for example 12x12=144 tuning points, where my Haltech it something like 32x32=1024 tuning points. They're somewhat similar to a microtech but have some really cool features and are really universal in the sensors etc that they can read and control. Have you tried the self tune feature? Where you set the target AFR for specific load points (provided you have a wide band O2 sensor) and just drive round. The more you hit that load point the more data it averages and smooths your tune out? Of course it's only got about a 25% correction authority so you have to get the tune relatively close to start with. Also upping the squirts per rev (ie batch fire) as opposed to sequential wont increase the amount of fuel your injector can flow. To get more fuel it needs to be bigger, run more pressure, or have more open time. As open time is limited my engine speed there's not much you can do about it lol, so bigger injectors or a rising rate reg would be my choice.

[Damo]

There is firmware available (free) for the MS that gives you 16x16 tables. It also gives better resolution for injectors, from 0.1mS to 0.035mS.

[Hybrid]

We're talking about a single point injection sytem, not port, so unfortunately upping the squirts per cycle is just that. No batch of injectors to fire, just one lol. The reason I was saying upping the squirts might help is because at the moment, as there is only one injector firing, I think there is enough of a lag between squirts that stomping the foot causes a lean environment until the next metered squirt. This is why I find accel erichment worse at lower RPM as opposed to high. Whereas if I upped the number of squirts there would be a shorter amount of time until the next metered dose was pumped in. Obviously at some point though the single injector wont be able to open and close fast enough before the next squirt is required. It's actually a moot point now because Damo and I are in the middle of doing a port injected manifold for it.

On a side note I did tune it using the autotune once I had it running reasonably close. It's great because you can set it to whatever percentage of correction you want to get a nice smooth curve. I really do like the DIY megasquirt as I learned a hell of a lot doing it but I do understand where you're coming from with regard to the resolution of the fuel maps. I wonder what resolution stock ECU's use.

[JrZook]

Hybrid wrote:

We're talking about a single point injection sytem, not port, so unfortunately upping the squirts per cycle is just that. No batch of injectors to fire, just one lol. The reason I was saying upping the squirts might help is because at the moment, as there is only one injector firing, I think there is enough of a lag between squirts that stomping the foot causes a lean environment until the next metered squirt. This is why I find accel erichment worse at lower RPM as opposed to high. Whereas if I upped the number of squirts there would be a shorter amount of time until the next metered dose was pumped in. Obviously at some point though the single injector wont be able to open and close fast enough before the next squirt is required. It's actually a moot point now because Damo and I are in the middle of doing a port injected manifold for it.

On a side note I did tune it using the autotune once I had it running reasonably close. It's great because you can set it to whatever percentage of correction you want to get a nice smooth curve. I really do like the DIY megasquirt as I learned a hell of a lot doing it but I do understand where you're coming from with regard to the resolution of the fuel maps. I wonder what resolution stock ECU's use.

Imma keen to play one day

[sleeperzook]

Damo wrote:

There is firmware available (free) for the MS that gives you 16x16 tables. It also gives better resolution for injectors, from 0.1mS to 0.035mS.

Interesting Yeah, my brother has one he's playing around with ATM and I'm sure he'd be very interested in this. Any chance you have a link or know where I can get the firmware?

[Damo]

sleeperzook wrote:

Damo wrote:

There is firmware available (free) for the MS that gives you 16x16 tables. It also gives better resolution for injectors, from 0.1mS to 0.035mS.

Interesting Yeah, my brother has one he's playing around with ATM and I'm sure he'd be very interested in this. Any chance you have a link or know where I can get the firmware?

Clicky

[Hybrid]

JrZook wrote:

Imma keen to play one day

You're always welcome to get in on the brainstorming and tooling at Damos! If it's the actual tuning of the MS on the laptop your interested in I'll prob be getting in to that on mine in the next month or so. Not sure if Damo's running his yet.

[Damo]

Hybrid wrote:

JrZook wrote:

Imma keen to play one day

You're always welcome to get in on the brainstorming and tooling at Damos! If it's the actual tuning of the MS on the laptop your interested in I'll prob be getting in to that on mine in the next month or so. Not sure if Damo's running his yet.

Not yet, just got a new lappy though so i'm going to have another look at it over the weekend if I can find a USB/serial adapter.

[JrZook]

Damo wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

JrZook wrote:

Imma keen to play one day

You're always welcome to get in on the brainstorming and tooling at Damos! If it's the actual tuning of the MS on the laptop your interested in I'll prob be getting in to that on mine in the next month or so. Not sure if Damo's running his yet.

Not yet, just got a new lappy though so i'm going to have another look at it over the weekend if I can find a USB/serial adapter.

Cool!! And yea Damo, give us a ring back sometime ya mug!

[JrZook]

Hybrid wrote:

Have you done any research to see if the injector can handle it? I did a heap when I first got my SPI and found that many different answers for the supposed injector flow rate that I gave up. I'm running mine non-turbo with a megasquirt ECU and I find I can't get the acceleration enrichment quite right as it is. This would be compounded with a turbo. Although I've not upped the squirts per engine cycle which would make it easier.

So wait up, you still don't know the flow rate of your injector? How'd you set up the required fuel in MS? Just guesstimated a injector flow rate?

To the OP, can you get your injector flow tested and get some figures for it? That would be a good starting point.

[JrZook]

sleeperzook wrote:

Hybrid - The mega squirt is a cool computer but it only runs a 12x12 map, so the resolution its the greatest. for example 12x12=144 tuning points, where my Haltech it something like 32x32=1024 tuning points.

The resolution of the tuning map is only really half of it. As these comps should be linearly interpolating the fueling requirements using 4 points of the tuning map the actually injector opening time resolution becomes quite important as well. As Damo said the mega can do 0.035ms opening time steps? Do you know what the haultech does?

The computer im currently designing for a bike application will do down to 10us resolution on a 16x16 map. Which should work

[canberramav]

i sized up the manifold on the motor and im not sure it will fit the turbo without having to move my power steering. Then im going to have to try to find room for the intercooler.

I might have to put this on the back burner until after Toperi

[Fatzook]

canberramav wrote:

i sized up the manifold on the motor and im not sure it will fit the turbo without having to move my power steering. Then im going to have to try to find room for the intercooler.

I might have to put this on the back burner until after Toperi

Do hi-mount setup.

So the manifold drops down then curls back up to have the turbo sitting up closer to the bonnet. Then your IC ipework is up nice and high.

[Damo]

JrZook wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

Have you done any research to see if the injector can handle it? I did a heap when I first got my SPI and found that many different answers for the supposed injector flow rate that I gave up. I'm running mine non-turbo with a megasquirt ECU and I find I can't get the acceleration enrichment quite right as it is. This would be compounded with a turbo. Although I've not upped the squirts per engine cycle which would make it easier.

So wait up, you still don't know the flow rate of your injector? How'd you set up the required fuel in MS? Just guesstimated a injector flow rate?

To the OP, can you get your injector flow tested and get some figures for it? That would be a good starting point.

That's a good point JrZook, I did a lot of digging around and never found any specs for the SPI injector. I seem to remember guestimating my req. fuel based on the power output of the engine, as there is some info in the Megamanual which guides you through that.

Alternatively megasquirt has an injector test mode that you could use to run the injector at 100% duty cycle for say 15 seconds, measure the fuel that it puts out and multiply by 4.

Canberramav, sorry for the thread hijack!!!

[canberramav]

All good about the hijack.

Ive never played with a turbo or aftermarket ECU so its all a learning curve for me.

The manifold is similar to the one pictured. I just held it in place though not bolted in and it looked to overlap the powersteering pump.

[LAY80N]

Damo wrote:

JrZook wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

Have you done any research to see if the injector can handle it? I did a heap when I first got my SPI and found that many different answers for the supposed injector flow rate that I gave up. I'm running mine non-turbo with a megasquirt ECU and I find I can't get the acceleration enrichment quite right as it is. This would be compounded with a turbo. Although I've not upped the squirts per engine cycle which would make it easier.

So wait up, you still don't know the flow rate of your injector? How'd you set up the required fuel in MS? Just guesstimated a injector flow rate?

To the OP, can you get your injector flow tested and get some figures for it? That would be a good starting point.

That's a good point JrZook, I did a lot of digging around and never found any specs for the SPI injector. I seem to remember guestimating my req. fuel based on the power output of the engine, as there is some info in the Megamanual which guides you through that.

Alternatively megasquirt has an injector test mode that you could use to run the injector at 100% duty cycle for say 15 seconds, measure the fuel that it puts out and multiply by 4.

Canberramav, sorry for the thread hijack!!!

I tested the flow ages ago when i did the injection, put i sorta forgot what it was. I had a calculator i use for setting base maps up on motors to get them running before they got tuned, when i started my tune i just used this to get a rough idea. My old tuning laptop died a while ago and i lost the details. I am doing some work on the zook this weekend, if i get a chance i will see if i can test a rough flow.
Out of interest, what figures did you get. 360cc/m rings a bell, but its been so many years and so many different cars i am probably way off.

Layto....

[Hybrid]

LAY80N wrote:

I tested the flow ages ago when i did the injection, put i sorta forgot what it was. I had a calculator i use for setting base maps up on motors to get them running before they got tuned, when i started my tune i just used this to get a rough idea. My old tuning laptop died a while ago and i lost the details. I am doing some work on the zook this weekend, if i get a chance i will see if i can test a rough flow.
Out of interest, what figures did you get. 360cc/m rings a bell, but its been so many years and so many different cars i am probably way off.

Layto....

Yeah I heard a couple of different specs when I did mine. around 48lbs is what I think I ended up going with if I recall correctly. The reason I went with that is I found a guy running a megasquirt on a samurai in the states. He sent his base map so I could at least get it started. It's obviously wrong though as when I change the number of squirts I have to retune the VE maps substantially. If the required fuel was right changing squirts shouldn't make much of a difference to the fuel maps. Effectively I've tuned the required fuel error out via the fuel tables. I'm gonna get the gti ones tested before starting that tune over again.