[the_WIZARD]

why can my stock suzuki go more places than any of my mates highly modified toyota rigs? is this a suzuki thing or just me?? will giving it 2" of lift and a new front and rear bar make it a more capable vehicle :p ? should i bother or just drive the shit outta it till something breaks and then upgrade whatever breaks??

[Birdman1985]

If you get to where you are going now without the modifications, do yuo need to do it?

The answer is yes.

3 simple things.
LIFT, LOCK and TRACTION (damn it why could traction be load, that would sound sweet)

Mitch.

[Kooz]

90% is the driver, the rest is the car

[alien]

theres lot of reasons why... but you'll make it incredibly capable with the following:

2" spring lift
235/75r15 tyres
welded or locked rear diff

that alone will have you completely embarassing other 4x4s. Just dont forget - the reason we do lift is to fit larger tyres... a spring lift alone will not make the zuk a ton more capable (you might gain some flex and better road manners).

My uncle has a bog standard 03 jimny running 215/75r15 BFG KM2's and he outdrives MANY other 4wds we see out and about due to the traction the tyres give.

[2stroker]

the_WIZARD wrote:

why can my stock suzuki go more places than any of my mates highly modified toyota rigs?

I don't know why.......

[BertZook]

simple SWB


or better say TWB (tiny wheel base )

[2stroker]

Sorry wizzard....mate it is just that they are a good thing, as Alien says it doesn't take much to get a Suzuki really showing up the field.

[Bruce]

2stroker wrote:

Sorry wizzard....mate it is just that they are a good thing, as Alien says it doesn't take much to get a Suzuki really showing up the field.

And don't some of the big boys hate that.

[tanshi]

try telling some one in a comp that if they drove a suzuki they would have done better

[Jccck]

Bruce wrote:

2stroker wrote:

Sorry wizzard....mate it is just that they are a good thing, as Alien says it doesn't take much to get a Suzuki really showing up the field.

And don't some of the big boys hate that.

I've been on 4x4 trips and been the least modified car (Yes, hard to believe haha)
And i impress the Hiluxs GQs and 60 Series, it's definantly a Zook thing.

Kinda like when the scrawny shy nerdy kid at school goes on a rampage and shoots everyone.
Noone expects the little insignificant one to kick everyone's ass when it counts.

[BertZook]

also is because we have more power

yea I know it sounds weird we having a 1.3 and they with the 3.1, 4.0, 4.5 ect ect engines.... but the difference is really on the weight of the car

if you measure the power to weight ratio you will find that zooks have the highest and best relation number, only overcome by a swb jeep wrangler I think

[Gwagensteve]

bertzook, I'm going to disagree with you on your assertions about what makes a suzuki capable.

The very short wheelbase of a Sierra is as much of a disadvantage than it is an advantage. Whilst it (along with a narrow body and narrow overall width) allow more line choice, the shortness of the wheelbase makes for extreme weight transfer when climbing and a lack of directional stability once the front end goes loose.

For that reason, I run a LWB sierra with an extra 7" in the wheelbase, so I am very close to 100" of wheelbase, generally considered to be the magic number for an all purpose car. 79" isn't where it's at for climbing.

Sierras do not, by any means, have high power, (or torque) to weight, even by 4WD standards. Whilst some Diesel 4WD's have lower power to weight, they have far higher torque to weight, so it's a moot point. Near enough 47KW/tonne isn't much chop - a 4.5 petrol land cruiser - 160Kw, 1900KG. Even a 4 cylinder 2.7 litre petrol hilux exceeds the power to weight of a sierra.

Where a heavier 4WD has lower power to weight, it smashes a sierra on torque to weight. A Sierra has about 100Nm/tonne. I can't think of any 2 tonne 4WD's with 200Nm (except my Gwagen, which is terribly underengined)

IMHO the advantage of a sierra offroad is all about low weight and acceptable ground clearance. How much these factors are worth for capability is proven by the fact a sierra has low power and torque, little wheel travel, poor gearing, and isn't very stable at all, yet still owns heavier cars that have all of these things in abundance.

Steve.

[christover1]

I was on a trip recently with my Vitara on baby 31's ,
along with a few larger trucks on 33's plus.
Some guy came up and asked"
Are you sure the trip leader knows you are coming"
I just smiled, and said yes.
I let the car do the talking for me

[Jccck]

christover1 wrote:

I was on a trip recently with my Vitara on baby 31's ,
along with a few larger trucks on 33's plus.
Some guy came up and asked"
Are you sure the trip leader knows you are coming"
I just smiled, and said yes.
I let the car do the talking for me

Things like diff and underbelly clearance are good as stock on a Zook, an Cruiser/Patrol has 31" from factory, a Zook has 27"
A Zook on 31"s by Comparison should have the same clearance at the diff than a Cruiser on 34s on average

Also approach/departure and especially RAMP OVER angles are amazing, my Zook is very very good for all three, i don't get hung up like a longer 4x4 would

[BertZook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

bertzook, I'm going to disagree with you on your assertions about what makes a suzuki capable.

The very short wheelbase of a Sierra is as much of a disadvantage than it is an advantage. Whilst it (along with a narrow body and narrow overall width) allow more line choice, the shortness of the wheelbase makes for extreme weight transfer when climbing and a lack of directional stability once the front end goes loose.

For that reason, I run a LWB sierra with an extra 7" in the wheelbase, so I am very close to 100" of wheelbase, generally considered to be the magic number for an all purpose car. 79" isn't where it's at for climbing.

Sierras do not, by any means, have high power, (or torque) to weight, even by 4WD standards. Whilst some Diesel 4WD's have lower power to weight, they have far higher torque to weight, so it's a moot point. Near enough 47KW/tonne isn't much chop - a 4.5 petrol land cruiser - 160Kw, 1900KG. Even a 4 cylinder 2.7 litre petrol hilux exceeds the power to weight of a sierra.

Where a heavier 4WD has lower power to weight, it smashes a sierra on torque to weight. A Sierra has about 100Nm/tonne. I can't think of any 2 tonne 4WD's with 200Nm (except my Gwagen, which is terribly underengined)

IMHO the advantage of a sierra offroad is all about low weight and acceptable ground clearance. How much these factors are worth for capability is proven by the fact a sierra has low power and torque, little wheel travel, poor gearing, and isn't very stable at all, yet still owns heavier cars that have all of these things in abundance.

Steve.

sorry ofr my lack of knowledge , I guess the website where I check the wheight to power ratio lack of info heheh....

but yeah I just trying to say that the low weight is our advantage, and the very small wheel base I just say it for the fact that we have a better over-ramp angle, but sacrificing a bit of stability too....

any whoo, my bad you say it right

[christover1]

Is also good to factor in the Zooker attitude.
We c an do anything lol

[Built4thrashing]

PLus we tend to care less about breaking things as the zooks are so cheap to fix.


B4T

[steve]

Jccck wrote:

A Zook on 31"s by Comparison should have the same clearance at the diff than a Cruiser on 34s on average

What's the measurements?

[Jccck]

steve wrote:

Jccck wrote:

A Zook on 31"s by Comparison should have the same clearance at the diff than a Cruiser on 34s on average

What's the measurements?

I'm not that clever, so let's all go get Portal Hubs

[christover1]

My 1.0 Sierra had about 11 inches under diff with 31's
Not measured me vit yet.

[BertZook]

Jccck wrote:

steve wrote:

Jccck wrote:

A Zook on 31"s by Comparison should have the same clearance at the diff than a Cruiser on 34s on average

What's the measurements?

I'm not that clever, so let's all go get Portal Hubs

not really, as the clearance from the ground to the diff or axle is given by the size of the tyre as is the only link between two, the bigger the tyre the more clearance for the diff and the less able to hit a rock or something....

now maybe you re talking about ramp over angle, that tyre and lift help to increase that, but as we have a swb and they a longer one, we have a better angle than theirs already in stock mode

but a pootrool going for 31 to 35 it would be similar to a zook going for 27 to 31s in what gearing and upgrade to a more capable 4wd refers, not clearance for diff

[Ben_Sierra]

BertZook wrote:

Jccck wrote:

steve wrote:

Jccck wrote:

A Zook on 31"s by Comparison should have the same clearance at the diff than a Cruiser on 34s on average

What's the measurements?

I'm not that clever, so let's all go get Portal Hubs

not really, as the clearance from the ground to the diff or axle is given by the size of the tyre as is the only link between two, the bigger the tyre the more clearance for the diff and the less able to hit a rock or something....

now maybe you re talking about ramp over angle, that tyre and lift help to increase that, but as we have a swb and they a longer one, we have a better angle than theirs already in stock mode

but a pootrool going for 31 to 35 it would be similar to a zook going for 27 to 31s in what gearing and upgrade to a more capable 4wd refers, not clearance for diff

Zook's have smaller diff pumpkins....

[christover1]

And 1.0 litre diffs are smaller again than 1.3's,
giving my old Sierra a real advantage.

[steve]

Ben_Sierra wrote:

BertZook wrote:

Jccck wrote:

steve wrote:

Jccck wrote:

A Zook on 31"s by Comparison should have the same clearance at the diff than a Cruiser on 34s on average

What's the measurements?

I'm not that clever, so let's all go get Portal Hubs

not really, as the clearance from the ground to the diff or axle is given by the size of the tyre as is the only link between two, the bigger the tyre the more clearance for the diff and the less able to hit a rock or something....

Zook's have smaller diff pumpkins....

yeap yeap we get all that, but these rumours keep recycling on forums and i don't beleive that any of the people have measured anything. It's a fantasy.

[christover1]

I have measured something,
but it is not relevant to this thread

So we need to add a bragging thread,
with all relevant measurements listed.

[steve]

Well yeah, if people are going to keep recycling the rumour that a Sierra on 11inch tyres will out drive a Hilux on 35s, ... then some L plater sees that and repeats it on another forum, .. i'm pretty sure it must be on Outerlimits because it keeps getting repeated here, because you call people on it and they say "oh umm, i read it somewhere"

[Ben_Sierra]

steve wrote:

Ben_Sierra wrote:

BertZook wrote:

Jccck wrote:

steve wrote:

Jccck wrote:

A Zook on 31"s by Comparison should have the same clearance at the diff than a Cruiser on 34s on average

What's the measurements?

I'm not that clever, so let's all go get Portal Hubs

not really, as the clearance from the ground to the diff or axle is given by the size of the tyre as is the only link between two, the bigger the tyre the more clearance for the diff and the less able to hit a rock or something....

Zook's have smaller diff pumpkins....

yeap yeap we get all that, but these rumours keep recycling on forums and i don't beleive that any of the people have measured anything. It's a fantasy.

Yea I agree, but there is probably some difference... Probably not the 2 or 3 inches most people say though...

[Jccck]

steve wrote:

Well yeah, if people are going to keep recycling the rumour that a Sierra on 11inch tyres will out drive a Hilux on 35s, ... then some L plater sees that and repeats it on another forum, .. i'm pretty sure it must be on Outerlimits because it keeps getting repeated here, because you call people on it and they say "oh umm, i read it somewhere"

I'd probably be more inclinded to say, my Sierra on 30s can drive through a rutt that my mate in an 80 Series on 32s cant
I don't touch the diff, but he gets jammed on it.

But i'm just reclycling that from the book i wrote about my last 4x4 trip, so disregard

[BertZook]

yeah I didnt though about the difference in size of the diff , but dnt think is that much as the myth says...

either way the axle housing is still at the middle of the wheel so the bigger the wheel the bigger the clearance.....I know that our housing would be smaller than theirs but still the difference it wont be that much... either way doesnt matter as the diff would hit something first

so please some1 who knows a friend with a pootrool or a cruiser meassure the diff clearance to take us out of doubt, and bust the myth for once for all


.... at the end of the day 31s re still 31s, and 35s re still 35s, so a place where a 31 could be get stock a 35 prob would just roll over it..... but as many of you guys have prove in diferent scenarios, our little guys would still over take anny big 4wd with out caring about the tyre size difference

I would like to say "It's a zook thing" ... but I think that's the Jeep slogan ... either way you get the point

[shandy92]

hey all,

since i have a pootroll sitting in my driveway on 35's (my brothers) i took the advantage and went and measured.

ford mavrick (same as GQ pootrol) on 35's
from front diff-ground is was 10"
rear diff-ground was 10.8"

my rear vitara diff on 235's (29's) =9.2"s

so if i was to go to a 31" i would have almost the same if not more diff clearance

Mitch