[Fatzook]

shep wrote:

Hay fatzook did he just do a simple guard chop to fit them? Gwagon is always going on
About how lift won't allow ya to fit bigger rubber and neither will just choping ya guards
Allow ya to fit bigger rubber. The car in the photo (from memery) has zero up travel
How great would that be to drive on the road? I reckon it would be shitful.
Lifted springs+bumpstop spacing+extended brake lines=easy fitment of bigger rubber
And ya can be finished in a half days effort.

Yeah fair enough. I would have thought that the pictured zook would atleast have standard uptravel.

I'm going through this exact mod now. Coils and links setup to 2" lift with properly adjusted bumps and guard chopping to clear 34-35". Its alot of work, but I think the combo of a small lift and heavy guard chopping is gonna make for a Uber stable rig

[matty87]

shep wrote:

Hay fatzook did he just do a simple guard chop to fit them? Gwagon is always going on
About how lift won't allow ya to fit bigger rubber and neither will just choping ya guards
Allow ya to fit bigger rubber. The car in the photo (from memery) has zero up travel
How great would that be to drive on the road? I reckon it would be shitful.
Lifted springs+bumpstop spacing+extended brake lines=easy fitment of bigger rubber
And ya can be finished in a half days effort.

shep FTW

[ajsr]

Fatzook wrote:

shep wrote:

i love the way the people that say that lift doesn't mean ya can fit bigger tyres forget to mention that chopping the fuck out of ya car doesn't mean ya can fit bigger rubber either and for the same reasons.

the whole thing is just a dick pulling exercise by people who think that they
are smarter then everybody else.

This has some pretty big rubber?

I'm told this rig is daily driven on 31's (i think) and once the 35 krawlers are removed it looks stockish.
I had a look under this thing a while ago now and from memory it doesnt have much up travel(under 1") however it drives verywell on the road by the looks from my rig.
not taking sides I'm just saying thats its a well thought out cool rig JMO

[Jccck]

matty87 wrote:

shep wrote:

Hay fatzook did he just do a simple guard chop to fit them? Gwagon is always going on
About how lift won't allow ya to fit bigger rubber and neither will just choping ya guards
Allow ya to fit bigger rubber. The car in the photo (from memery) has zero up travel
How great would that be to drive on the road? I reckon it would be shitful.
Lifted springs+bumpstop spacing+extended brake lines=easy fitment of bigger rubber
And ya can be finished in a half days effort.

shep FTW

Vote 1 for PM!

You are right though Shep, both ways don't directly mean big rubber fits.. It's a combination of things that fits bigger rubber in the neatest and most efficient (In terms of capability, cost and time)

[Gwagensteve]

Wow, that got out of control quickly.

I'll make it nice and simple.

A suspension lift might allow enough room for you to physically clear a larger tyre in the wheelwell, while sitting stationary in the driveway, a suspension lift, alone does nothing to assist in the clearance of larger tyres.

Why?

Because the axle can still move up just as far when the vehicle's suspension travels or articulates and the tyres will still hit the body.

Just because they don't hit in the driveway (or driving on road) once a suspension lift is fitted doesn't mean the suspension lift has allowed the fitment of bigger tyres. When they hit whatever they were gong to hit, they will hit hard. I've broken CV's by jamming tyres into guards.

Body lift, bumpstop spacing, and guard cutting all allow the fitment of bigger tyres. Depending on the tyre size you wish to clear, you might need only one, or you might need all three, but they are the ONLY methods a bigger tyre will fit a car.

Yes, suspension lift is a way of maintaing acceptable compression travel once the bumpstops have been lowered to allow the fitment of a bigger tyre, but that might not be necessary.

Shep - Chopping your guards will 100% allow the fitment of bigger rubber. The hardtop photo I posted is the proof. They're 35's with no lift. Yes, the guards are epically chopped, but it doesn't have any lift. and the only assistance it has to clear the tyres is guard chopping.

Please, if I have the wrong end of the stick here just let me know, but you'll obviously have to explain it very well because I'm missing something epic.

(There is a caveat to this. If your suspesion lift is so craptacularly stiff that it won't allow the axle anywhere near the bumpstop, then yes, I guess suspension lift has allowed the fitment of bigger tyres. I'd argue that's not really a "feature" though, and more a drawback. )

Steve.

[dank]

After having a laugh at this whole thread I will add that wheel offset also plays a part in fitting bigger rubber. Not saying negative or postive offset is best but it does play a part in fitting rubber to your rig....then you have steering stops....NT spring spacing option....wheelbase length mods....the list goes on.

And to the OP, Rancho are nothing special, i run Ridepro Shocks in my zook, 60 series fronts in the front and IFS hilux rears in the rear, my zook has never handled better, it's a demon on fast dirt and flexes with the best of them. The come from a truck shock back ground and are big bore with great valving.

[Fatzook]

dank wrote:

After having a laugh at this whole thread I will add that wheel offset also plays a part in fitting bigger rubber. Not saying negative or postive offset is best but it does play a part in fitting rubber to your rig....then you have steering stops....NT spring spacing option....wheelbase length mods....the list goes on.

This is all true. I am going through this now with my ute, and scrub radius posses a bigger issue than tyre diameter. So I'm using a -50 10" wide rim to ensure adequate clearance for my -12 9" rims that are to be used on the ute.

I love a good shite fight

@Steve.......... No mention of wacky shackles? Not like you to miss an oportunity to drop a tightly coiled steamer over the subject

[sierrajim]

You've all got it wrong, you need spoa with hilux rears all round and a 46mm body lift (use box section - it's lighter than solid blocks). This will let you clear 31's pretty well.

If you want the hektic flex you'll need a set of drop shackles and rancho shocks.

[lump_a_charcoal]

Only if the ranchos are turned up to 11.

[shep]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Ben_Sierra wrote:

And so the myth that lifted springs give you more tyre clearance continues....

And there's the real problem.

Suspension lift does not, and never has, allowed the fitment of bigger tyres. .

that's the bit i have trouble with. lift+ bumpstop spacing and there ya go,
bigger tyres fit and work. it is just a silly statement i dont have
to run stupid big tyres to get my motor as high out of the crap as the cars
that you posted and i still have a great ramp over plus the reliability of
being able to run 31" tyres to achieve it

Gwagensteve wrote:

Lowering bumpstops, body lift, or guard cutting equals bigger tyres. That might require some suspension lift in order to maintain acceptable compression wheel travel, but it's not the suspension lift that getting the tyres under those cars.

My point was that suspension a 5mm difference in suspension lift is irrelevant in building a "big" sierra. I agree, I mischievously avoided mentioning lots of body work, body lift or bumpstop spacing as the reason these cars run such big tyres, but my point still stands, we build cars without any thought to suspension lift. (and sometimes even try to avoid it)

Steve.

[Gwagensteve]

Shep, we're not trying to keep our engine up out anything. We're trying to maximise diff clearance whilst keeping the car as low as possible. That's why we go to all the effort of virtual lift etc to run large tyres at low overall lift.

As I have posted before, we're building stuff that works for what we drive. For us, suspension lift isn't what we are interested in, and it has nothing to do with what tyre size we can run.

Additionally, we have found that our cars drive acceptable with anything over about 20mm of compression travel. Even with a 50mm bumpstop spacer, we're often only running 30mm or less of spring lift, so it's quite possible we are running less compression travel than a standard, unlifted Sierra.


Steve.

[shep]

haha ya missed my point mate it is the blanket statement saying that lift
doesn't let ya fit bigger tyres that i have problems with.

[JrZook]

Koni's are a good shock

[Gwagensteve]

You're right Shep. I am missing the point. Please explain how suspension lift fits bigger tyres.

I am serious. I just don't understand how it's possible. It hasn't been possible on any car I've been involved with to date, so I'm obviously missing something critical.

Don't mention lowering bumpstops though, because that's not related to suspension lift. It's quite possible to lower bumpstops at stock suspension height.

Steve.

[SuziBlu]

er

[SuziBlu]

SuziBlu wrote:

Steve, you are saying, against every logical thought that a man can have, that under no circumstances can a suspension lift allow bigger tyres.

I find this the most stupid statement ever, if you really believe this, and its not at typo, I feel very sorry for you.

Suspension lift does not, and never has, allowed the fitment of bigger tyres.[i]

Your words.

[SuziBlu]

Steve, you are saying, against every logical thought that a man can have, that under no circumstances can a suspension lift allow bigger tyres.

I find this the most stupid statement ever, if you really believe this, and its not at typo, I feel very sorry for you.

Suspension lift does not, and never has, allowed the fitment of bigger tyres.[i]

Those are your words after all, read them, think about it, and honestly tell me, that those words are not the most stupid words ever spoken by mankind.

[shep]

Gwagensteve wrote:

You're right Shep. I am missing the point. Please explain how suspension lift fits bigger tyres.

I am serious. I just don't understand how it's possible. It hasn't been possible on any car I've been involved with to date, so I'm obviously missing something critical.

Don't mention lowering bumpstops though, because that's not related to suspension lift. It's quite possible to lower bumpstops at stock suspension height.

Steve.

are you for real? in what way do you think i cant use bumpstop spacing in
conjunction with lift?

[Zook_Fan]

SuziBlu wrote:

Steve, you are saying, against every logical thought that a man can have, that under no circumstances can a suspension lift allow bigger tyres.

I find this the most stupid statement ever, if you really believe this, and its not at typo, I feel very sorry for you.

Suspension lift does not, and never has, allowed the fitment of bigger tyres.[i]

Those are your words after all, read them, think about it, and honestly tell me, that those words are not the most stupid words ever spoken by mankind.

it makes sense. if you do not believe it then do as steve asked of shep and explain how suspension lift fits bigger tyres without mention of lowering bumpstops

[matty87]

the fact that lift may not fit larger tyres without bump stop extension may be true i can think of a number of cases where it is indead not and no bump stop extension was required.

however the method steve is on about will like shep said not fit bigger tyres either you can chop guards all ya like but without putting wider offset rims on moving diffs forward etc you wont get endless larger tyres under it.

[Fatzook]

matty87 wrote:

however the method steve is on about will like shep said not fit bigger tyres either you can chop guards all ya like but without putting wider offset rims on moving diffs forward etc you wont get endless larger tyres under it.

I don't understand this statement at all.

Take a standard sierra. No lift, no body lift, standard bumpstop placement. Now unbolt the standard 26" tyres and bolt on 33" tyres. You can't. It will hit panels everywhere. Now if you take a grinder and remove the offending material from the guards, corner of firewall and behind the headlights, amazingly it now fits. Now you flex it up on the standard suspension, standard offset wheels etc. If you have removed enough panels, I cannot see how this mod alone does not allow the fitment of larger tyres.

Please enlighten me.

[SuziBlu]

Zook_Fan wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

Steve, you are saying, against every logical thought that a man can have, that under no circumstances can a suspension lift allow bigger tyres.

I find this the most stupid statement ever, if you really believe this, and its not at typo, I feel very sorry for you.

Suspension lift does not, and never has, allowed the fitment of bigger tyres.[i]

Those are your words after all, read them, think about it, and honestly tell me, that those words are not the most stupid words ever spoken by mankind.

it makes sense. if you do not believe it then do as steve asked of shep and explain how suspension lift fits bigger tyres without mention of lowering bumpstops

Read the blanket statement, that is what is so worrying, a man can state this categorically, and know when to breath in and out without help.

I fully understand the need for larger bump stops, even blind freddy can see that, but to say what steve has, in a pure statement, is totally beyond my comprehension.

To lift a car will not ever allow fitment of larger tyres, fuk me.

[Red89]

Fatzook wrote:

matty87 wrote:

however the method steve is on about will like shep said not fit bigger tyres either you can chop guards all ya like but without putting wider offset rims on moving diffs forward etc you wont get endless larger tyres under it.

I don't understand this statement at all.

Take a standard sierra. No lift, no body lift, standard bumpstop placement. Now unbolt the standard 26" tyres and bolt on 33" tyres. You can't. It will hit panels everywhere. Now if you take a grinder and remove the offending material from the guards, corner of firewall and behind the headlights, amazingly it now fits. Now you flex it up on the standard suspension, standard offset wheels etc. If you have removed enough panels, I cannot see how this mod alone does not allow the fitment of larger tyres.

Please enlighten me.

Try turning a corner

[Fatzook]

Red89 wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

matty87 wrote:

however the method steve is on about will like shep said not fit bigger tyres either you can chop guards all ya like but without putting wider offset rims on moving diffs forward etc you wont get endless larger tyres under it.

I don't understand this statement at all.

Take a standard sierra. No lift, no body lift, standard bumpstop placement. Now unbolt the standard 26" tyres and bolt on 33" tyres. You can't. It will hit panels everywhere. Now if you take a grinder and remove the offending material from the guards, corner of firewall and behind the headlights, amazingly it now fits. Now you flex it up on the standard suspension, standard offset wheels etc. If you have removed enough panels, I cannot see how this mod alone does not allow the fitment of larger tyres.

Please enlighten me.

Try turning a corner

Yeah? And?

Like I said. If you remove enough of the guards etc to account for bigger tyres ( this would ofcoarse account for increased scrub radius) the what is the issue?

[Red89]

What about the tyres hitting the leaf springs ?

[matty87]

Fatzook wrote:

Red89 wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

matty87 wrote:

however the method steve is on about will like shep said not fit bigger tyres either you can chop guards all ya like but without putting wider offset rims on moving diffs forward etc you wont get endless larger tyres under it.

I don't understand this statement at all.

Take a standard sierra. No lift, no body lift, standard bumpstop placement. Now unbolt the standard 26" tyres and bolt on 33" tyres. You can't. It will hit panels everywhere. Now if you take a grinder and remove the offending material from the guards, corner of firewall and behind the headlights, amazingly it now fits. Now you flex it up on the standard suspension, standard offset wheels etc. If you have removed enough panels, I cannot see how this mod alone does not allow the fitment of larger tyres.

Please enlighten me.

Try turning a corner

Yeah? And?

Like I said. If you remove enough of the guards etc to account for bigger tyres ( this would ofcoarse account for increased scrub radius) the what is the issue?

yeah what red said you cant chop the chassis or the springs so when ya turn you are limited in size by the chassis and springs.

so to get the bigger tyres on you need to put larger offset rims on.

see im now saying you cant fit larger tyres with a guard chop because of this and that its as silly as saying you cant fit larger tyres with lift because of this and that.

[Fatzook]

matty87 wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

Red89 wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

matty87 wrote:

however the method steve is on about will like shep said not fit bigger tyres either you can chop guards all ya like but without putting wider offset rims on moving diffs forward etc you wont get endless larger tyres under it.

I don't understand this statement at all.

Take a standard sierra. No lift, no body lift, standard bumpstop placement. Now unbolt the standard 26" tyres and bolt on 33" tyres. You can't. It will hit panels everywhere. Now if you take a grinder and remove the offending material from the guards, corner of firewall and behind the headlights, amazingly it now fits. Now you flex it up on the standard suspension, standard offset wheels etc. If you have removed enough panels, I cannot see how this mod alone does not allow the fitment of larger tyres.

Please enlighten me.

Try turning a corner

Yeah? And?

Like I said. If you remove enough of the guards etc to account for bigger tyres ( this would ofcoarse account for increased scrub radius) the what is the issue?

yeah what red said you cant chop the chassis or the springs so when ya turn you are limited in size by the chassis and springs.

so to get the bigger tyres on you need to put larger offset rims on.

see im now saying you cant fit larger tyres with a guard chop because of this and that its as silly as saying you cant fit larger tyres with lift because of this and that.

Yeah you're right. Lift won't help you to clear the springs or chassis

Well I have WT diffs on a NT. Not even close to the springs. Not even with a 15x10" rim.

But I guess thats outside my initial scenario. Still, its a simple mod that allows you ro retain your standard suspension setup.

So I guess guys with WT sierras are fucked then.

[matty87]

^^^^ yeah man its not a hard mod to do but neither is a bump stop extension or a suspension lift. All this side of the fence is really getting at is steves big bold generalized statement.

[Chopz]

well to really stir things up, I call BS on that photo at the top in regards to have no lift, when it looks to me like it has extended shackles

[hooki]

i think it has the extended shackles for the RUF it runs.