[deathdoll]

hi all. its time for me to change my air filter. was thinking of getting a K&N filter for my lwb vit but wasn't sure if its actually worth the money or not.

what do you guys think? is there any significant benefit of using such filters? and how do they fair?

[Jccck]

A stock paper filter will always collect more dirt, and pass less dirt through than an aftermarket one
But obviously will not flow as well

On your race/drag/drift car the air is fairly clean where you drive.. But for a 4wd there's alot of dust and other particles in the air.

Apexi dry filters outflow, outcollect and outclean K&N in good conditions.. But i'd suspect the oiled K&N filter will win when lots of dust is involved

Filters alone don't provide any special gains, somewhere around 2-4kw at the flywheel.. It's the intake designs and 'cold air' or 'short ram' advantages than provide the majority of the gains from the intake.

So i'd say stick with a stock replacement filter than meets or exceeds OEM standards!

EDIT:
I was reading a huge writeup between stock paper filters vs aftermarket oiled filters and dry filters
K&N is the best oiled, Apexi is the best dry

Apexi was deemed the best in terms of Flow vs Dirt Collected/Dirt Passed.. But Stock was best in the Dirt Collected and least in the Dirt Passed, so it was deemed the safest

[gregdixon]

I swear buy my K&N filters. I run one in the grand vitara. They are only around $150 and a stock filter is around $40 now so it doesn't take long to pay for itself.
As long as you clean the filter each service they are good which is more maintainence than a standard filter. I have had my GV in some real dusty conditons and no dust has got through. I put a smear of grease in the clean side of the airbox and have not seen any dust that has got through. This is a trick from Enduro riding to see if your filter isn't oiled or sealed properly.

The uni filters are really good too. IMO oiled filters are the best for dusty conditions.

[SuziBlu]

K&N is the best by far IMO, nothing beats an oil filter for filtration.

[crewsy]

what about uni filters? aren't they fairly decent?

[MacDaddy]

gregdixon wrote:

I swear buy my K&N filters. I run one in the grand vitara. They are only around $150 and a stock filter is around $40 now so it doesn't take long to pay for itself.
As long as you clean the filter each service they are good which is more maintainence than a standard filter. I have had my GV in some real dusty conditons and no dust has got through. I put a smear of grease in the clean side of the airbox and have not seen any dust that has got through. This is a trick from Enduro riding to see if your filter isn't oiled or sealed properly.

The uni filters are really good too. IMO oiled filters are the best for dusty conditions.

How do you have the K&N fitted in your GV ?

[sleeperzook]

I've had them all in different cars over the years and can't complain about any of them. However I've just recently changed my turbo set up on my sierra to include the stock filter assembly so I can fit a snorkel. When I had it dyno tuned we saw no difference in power or torque at the wheels between no filter and a stock paper one, so if your decision is swayed by power increases then I probably wouldnt bother.

My 2c, Aaron.

[deathdoll]

thanks for all the replies. Think i should invest in 1 k&n filter then. Cos i guess it will pay for itself over time. I am buying it from lowrangoffroad. The vit 1 is just 39US + 45US shipping. Seeing the aussie dollar is so strong now it will cost around 82AU all up. I think they might have 1 for the GV there?

Anyway cheers

[gregdixon]

MacBear wrote:

gregdixon wrote:

I swear buy my K&N filters. I run one in the grand vitara. They are only around $150 and a stock filter is around $40 now so it doesn't take long to pay for itself.
As long as you clean the filter each service they are good which is more maintainence than a standard filter. I have had my GV in some real dusty conditons and no dust has got through. I put a smear of grease in the clean side of the airbox and have not seen any dust that has got through. This is a trick from Enduro riding to see if your filter isn't oiled or sealed properly.

The uni filters are really good too. IMO oiled filters are the best for dusty conditions.

How do you have the K&N fitted in your GV ?

It's a direct replacement panel filter.

[SuziBlu]

deathdoll wrote:

thanks for all the replies. Think i should invest in 1 k&n filter then. Cos i guess it will pay for itself over time. I am buying it from lowrangoffroad. The vit 1 is just 39US + 45US shipping. Seeing the aussie dollar is so strong now it will cost around 82AU all up. I think they might have 1 for the GV there?

Anyway cheers

The filter cleaner and oil are a bit expensive, see what they are worth over in the states with shipping, and compare the price to here.

[Jccck]

SuziBlu wrote:

deathdoll wrote:

thanks for all the replies. Think i should invest in 1 k&n filter then. Cos i guess it will pay for itself over time. I am buying it from lowrangoffroad. The vit 1 is just 39US + 45US shipping. Seeing the aussie dollar is so strong now it will cost around 82AU all up. I think they might have 1 for the GV there?

Anyway cheers

The filter cleaner and oil are a bit expensive, see what they are worth over in the states with shipping, and compare the price to here.

Average price for a K&N Panel Filter in Aus is ~$100.
Might be slightly less or more depending on availability and size of filter

I have had a K&N Panel with a custom intake on my Accord for almost a year now.. And it works a treat.
But i'd never recommend one for a 4WD
I've seen the independant tests done.. And stock paper filter is a MUCH safer choice for your engine if it's going to be in anything but clean air.. Aka a 4wd.

[SuziBlu]

[gregdixon]

I just look at off road racing bikes and cars. All dirt bikes run oiled filters and most cars I saw when service crewing in the aus safari run uni filters or some other brand of oiled filter.

They don't see much clean air.

[Jccck]

gregdixon wrote:

I just look at off road racing bikes and cars. All dirt bikes run oiled filters and most cars I saw when service crewing in the aus safari run uni filters or some other brand of oiled filter.

They don't see much clean air.

Theyd clean re-oil those filters out after every drive i'd bet you.
K&Ns or other oiled in a dirty environment clog up too fast.
Which is why Apexi and Paper are a more suitable filter for normal use
And since a Paper outcleans an Apexi.. Paper comes out #1 for general use in a dirty environment.
The thread and independant testing is on the Aussie WRX forums somewhere in a sticky.. They were comparing filters for street and rally use

[SuziBlu]

Jccck wrote:

gregdixon wrote:

I just look at off road racing bikes and cars. All dirt bikes run oiled filters and most cars I saw when service crewing in the aus safari run uni filters or some other brand of oiled filter.

They don't see much clean air.

Theyd clean re-oil those filters out after every drive i'd bet you.
K&Ns or other oiled in a dirty environment clog up too fast.
Which is why Apexi and Paper are a more suitable filter for normal use
And since a Paper outcleans an Apexi.. Paper comes out #1 for general use in a dirty environment.
The thread and independant testing is on the Aussie WRX forums somewhere in a sticky.. They were comparing filters for street and rally use

In a dirty environment, anyone who has an ounce of respect for their car would do such a minor thing as service the airfilter regularly. In bull dust country, that would mean daily.

You keep stating the "independent" test yet do not answer my above question ???

I reiterate, nothing cleans as well as a oil filter, part of the reason it blocks quicker, it has retained more particulate matter.

[atari4x4]

Hey Jooooooke, how many filters do apexi make for 4wds, from my understanding they only make them for ricers?

[Ben_Sierra]

atari4x4 wrote:

Hey Jooooooke, how many filters do apexi make for 4wds, from my understanding they only make them for ricers?

Haven't you seen Jcccccccccccccck's fully sik pod filter?

[royce]

These threads never reach a conclusion, each side pulls the bits they find help them along and leave out the other reasons

something to remember with any oiled filter, the medium (cotton, foam whatever) isnt there to filter anything, its just there to hold the oil, its the dirt sticking to the oil that filters it, in the old days many intake filters were simply an oil bath the air had to pass through (bit like certains utensils used to smoke certain substances ) so its vitallt important there is always enough oil and its sticky

K&N also claim that the more build up their filters get the better they work, so who knows whats better there

ill wait for Gwagon to chime in with his pro paper stuff and links that still dont answer anything

[SuziBlu]

royce wrote:

These threads never reach a conclusion, each side pulls the bits they find help them along and leave out the other reasons

something to remember with any oiled filter, the medium (cotton, foam whatever) isnt there to filter anything, its just there to hold the oil, its the dirt sticking to the oil that filters it, in the old days many intake filters were simply an oil bath the air had to pass through (bit like certains utensils used to smoke certain substances ) so its vitallt important there is always enough oil and its sticky

K&N also claim that the more build up their filters get the better they work, so who knows whats better there

ill wait for Gwagon to chime in with his pro paper stuff and links that still dont answer anything

That is something that so many do not understand, an oil filter is just a piece of paper, cotton whatever till you oil it, then it becomes an OIL filter, the very best IMO was the old oil bath filters.

I work on the International Standard Organization (ISO) standard for a lot of my work subjects, and ISO 5011 is the filtration standard, hence I quoted it, seems no-one is willing to give any info other than,I read somewhere, or a mate of a mates uncles brother sed.

[Che]

I got mine for $80 at Motorspec, I thought that was a pretty good price.

[gregdixon]

The two stage filters like "uni filter" and "twin air" are really good. The outer oiled corse foam catches the larger particles allowing the oiled finer foam to catch the fine dust particles without clogging and maintaining good flow.

[shep]

i put a K&N in my challenger and when i cleaned it for the first time there was a fucking big hole in the thing.
it was replaced under warranty, but fuck em its stock filter for me now. also
washing foam filters in petrol kills them fast.

[Jccck]

atari4x4 wrote:

Hey Jooooooke, how many filters do apexi make for 4wds, from my understanding they only make them for ricers?

Apexi made universal pod filters in sizes from 2.5" to 4", possibly a 4.5" but i don't know
And panel filters? If K&N do it i'm sure Apexi do.

[foonji]

royce wrote:

ill wait for Gwagon to chime in with his pro paper stuff and links that still dont answer anything

I was about to say, wasn't there a thread no so long ago that went for days n end with gwagon had quite a bit of info.

[Jccck]

foonji wrote:

royce wrote:

ill wait for Gwagon to chime in with his pro paper stuff and links that still dont answer anything

I was about to say, wasn't there a thread no so long ago that went for days n end with gwagon had quite a bit of info.

He's like the Wikipedia of Zook

[SuziBlu]

Jccck wrote:

foonji wrote:

royce wrote:

ill wait for Gwagon to chime in with his pro paper stuff and links that still dont answer anything

I was about to say, wasn't there a thread no so long ago that went for days n end with gwagon had quite a bit of info.

He's like the Wikipedia of Zook

Except Wikipedia knows what it is talking about.

[deathdoll]

haha i just thought of an idea. since stock paper filter gives good filtration and traps dust well. and so does the oil on the expensive filters. i wonder if you oil up a paper filter wouldn't that do the best job?

[Jccck]

deathdoll wrote:

haha i just thought of an idea. since stock paper filter gives good filtration and traps dust well. and so does the oil on the expensive filters. i wonder if you oil up a paper filter wouldn't that do the best job?

The oil would probably eat away at the filter
Similar to how petrol does to it with repeated cleaning =P

[ZookZilla96]

just a question...is the vitara your going to put it in, does it have an "air flow metre"?? if so i would not put an oil based K&N filter as the oil resedue comes of the filter and over the AFM and can actually damage the electrodes and there for will make your car run like shit.. every person who comes into our work wanting them when they upgrade with a snorkel we recommend the stock standard paper filter as for the reasons and plus its collecting cleaner air threw the head of the snorkel... just thought id put that out there just for the information.. (any ARB store will recommend the same thing and tell you the same answer)

[gregdixon]

I would of thought that would only happen with over oiled filters, which I do see alot of. People seem to think more is better.

I have not found an issue with my GV AFM (the mesh sceen before the throttle body)pulled the manifolds and throttle body off the other month and it was all clean in there or is it to small to see?