[shakes]

For general wheeling and fun a manual win's hands down.

For technical stuff an auto shits all over a manual so hard there isn't anything to wipe up!! you can go as slow or fast as you like with no pause/loss of momentum between shifts, you don't have to balance you clutch and rev's and destroy your driveline and mounts with shock loads. you can left foot brake meaning you can spend more time picking your lines.

To those saying you choose your gear etc with a manual, you've obviously never driven a wheel sorted (built) auto over technical stuff?

The only times a manual wins is on descent's where you can let the engine do most of the work... driving through the brakes to keep the wheels from locking up/car from running away in an auto is damn unnatural. And when you need to grab nuetral/reverse from tipping over.. both thing's that I'll probably never be able to do naturally anyway.

[LAY80N]

I have had plenty of experience driving almost the same stock cars auto and manual, all the way to tuff truck level rigs. For average work and speed work a manual is fine. I would prefer an auto, provided it was manualised and set up properly. But for technical full on crawling and hardcore shit you CAN NOT GO PAST A BUILT AUTO. Those that are saying manual, have you ever driven a full on rig with a build auto. In the rocks and trails there is no comparisson. Being able to control revs, speed, torque converter action etc with your feet can totally change how a rig behaves. Auto's can be launched just like a manual by stalling them up (or a neutral bomb if you like hating on your gearbox). Look at the top crawling/comp rigs etc. 90% are auto. There is a reason for that.I guess that all those that are hating on auto's saying they are not real gearbox's for 4wding will be at TTC or another comp to tell the top rigs that they are not no good

Layto....

[Gwagensteve]

Layto talks the truth.

Just a quick point about gear ratios though. Auto's don't require as much numerical reduction because the torque converter multiplies engine torque- it acts as gearing of its own all the time is is slipping. That ratio runs between about 1.8:1 to 2.4:1 for common autos used in 4WD's. In short, that means you need about 1/2 the gearing reduction a manual car runs to get the same effective gearing.

It's also wrong to claim the autos don't engine brake. If geared correctly, they engine brake quite well. Not as well as a manual with the same gearing, but there is real and noticeable engine braking.

It's clear from those hating on autos that very few of you have ever owned one and are working from misconceptions, or you've owned a car with a poorly set up driveline.

A loose north american three speed auto in a tall geared car will be a horrible thing to drive off road.

I've built a few automatic cars, owned a couple, but currently drive a manual. I don't believe it takes less skill to drive an auto off road, I reckon it's about even. I do knpw that a well driven auto will totally spank a manual car in technical terrain.

Steve.

[11_evl]

I'd put my auto car up against a manual one thru the hard stuff I drive anyday. I'd even let you drive my car thru the same stuff and let you choose which one is best.
I love my auto. But in saying that sonyas car is manual and will stay like that as her car will be used in faster stuff, more suited to a stick.

[ajsr]

after driving gregs auto softtop my new zook will be auto for sure you have sooo much control in the nastys its not funny

[inbits]

Im on the auto side my vit is auto I have a manual vitara aswell (same model) and have put them both through the same stuff while the manual is great when you want to go faster I'd still take the auto. You have so much more control
With the auto done up aswell i dont get much if any slip between gears and it shifts nice and firm and i dont need to replace clutches

autos win hands down!

[RIKSTR]

303zuke wrote:

RIKSTR wrote:

but once you drive and Auto offroad you will never go back, with t-case gearing you can drive down a hill and the auto will hold the car back anyway so the whole its better down hills with a manual is gone.

Which Automatic transmission will hold a car back on downhill grades? None that I know of! The Torque Converter cannot transmit engine braking unless you have lockup, which generally applies only in 4th or 5th gears. I don't know of a single Automatic transmission that has lockup for 1st or 2nd gears, which were you thinking of?

The one in the comp vitara we drive, it has gearing in the transfercase and 35" tyres, I can tell you that it hold the car going down hils very nicely. I am sure that the lockup with the torque converter is based on fluid pressure in the gearbox, revving at high revs give more pressure, and being low geared the car revs to move.
Also I have not seen a zook that will hold itself on a hill without gearing anyway

Any way point being thatyou can drive more controlled with an auto.

Watch this vid and tell me that it would have been better with a manual gearbox
Comp Vit

[sirbob]

[php]I chose a manual for reliability, I didn't know how strong autos were, but the thing that clinched it was the ablility to roll start the car.
[/php]


I used to think this was a benefit also, until i killed a battery at Straddie...

You cant push start in soft sand, unless you have another vheicle tow you. But if there's another vehicle around, you may as well use the jumpers...

I would go auto next time, but only if the car has sufficent torque to offset the losses from an Auto box. (Ie, D4D Prado, etc). For smaller cars like Suzuki's i would still go for a manual to get the most out of the small motors.

[tanshi]

i have driven two sierras, which are almost the same setup except one has a jimny auto. once they are manualised so you can choose the gear your in, they are even better

i have to say auto kicks ass.
if i could find an auto that i could run behind the lj50 two stroke i would have one in it aswell

[lump_a_charcoal]

I tend to believe that offroad, an auto is best.
On road, auto is best, unless it is a performance vehicle, then it should be manual, or hybrid.

[lordfury007]

Doesn't matter what anyone else says, Manuals are still more manly...

[lump_a_charcoal]

They are certainly more phallic.

[steak_knife]

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

They are certainly more phallic.

But auto driver's do it with a foot to spare...

[SuziBlu]

Being a manuel driver, I get to play with me knob while drivin.

[dank]

Gwagensteve wrote:

It's also wrong to claim the autos don't engine brake. If geared correctly, they engine brake quite well. Not as well as a manual with the same gearing, but there is real and noticeable engine braking.

Steve.

my auto with 4.9 Tranny gears in first low engine brakes just as well as my 5spd manual did with 4.9 tranny gears. Never ever have I felt out of control in the steep stuff in first low.

maybe on heavier rigs it may be more of an issue but with zooks i think most will find that the autos have enough guts to maintain and slow down in a steep descent, especially with transfer and or diff gearing.

[matty87]

dank wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

It's also wrong to claim the autos don't engine brake. If geared correctly, they engine brake quite well. Not as well as a manual with the same gearing, but there is real and noticeable engine braking.

Steve.

my auto with 4.9 Tranny gears in first low engine brakes just as well as my 5spd manual did with 4.9 tranny gears. Never ever have I felt out of control in the steep stuff in first low.

maybe on heavier rigs it may be more of an issue but with zooks i think most will find that the autos have enough guts to maintain and slow down in a steep descent, especially with transfer and or diff gearing.

Even the heavier rigs do it ok.
Bog stock Patrol Gu Auto engine brakes quite well in low first down some fairly steep hills. I love the auto in it point and shoot and when you have left it on the other side of the paddock even the 5 year old cousin can get it for ya. , The only annoying thing is the fuel economy is not as good as its manual counterpart.

[LAY80N]

RIKSTR wrote:

303zuke wrote:

RIKSTR wrote:

but once you drive and Auto offroad you will never go back, with t-case gearing you can drive down a hill and the auto will hold the car back anyway so the whole its better down hills with a manual is gone.

Which Automatic transmission will hold a car back on downhill grades? None that I know of! The Torque Converter cannot transmit engine braking unless you have lockup, which generally applies only in 4th or 5th gears. I don't know of a single Automatic transmission that has lockup for 1st or 2nd gears, which were you thinking of?

The one in the comp vitara we drive, it has gearing in the transfercase and 35" tyres, I can tell you that it hold the car going down hils very nicely. I am sure that the lockup with the torque converter is based on fluid pressure in the gearbox, revving at high revs give more pressure, and being low geared the car revs to move.
Also I have not seen a zook that will hold itself on a hill without gearing anyway

Any way point being thatyou can drive more controlled with an auto.

Watch this vid and tell me that it would have been better with a manual gearbox
Comp Vit

Lock-up converters have clutch packs in the converter assembly that are controlled externally to the box. Usually there is a electric solenoid that controls oil feed to the clutch pack. By pulsing this solenoid it is possible to get various stages of lockup (0% - 100%). Not all auto's have lock up converters, and not all lock up converters are capable of various stages of lock-up.

With the reduction we have in the comp truck we have just under 100:1 with a built cruiser auto. Engine braking is great.



Layto....

[lump_a_charcoal]

steak_knife wrote:

lump_a_charcoal wrote:

They are certainly more phallic.

But auto driver's do it with a foot to spare...

ROFL!

[skotup]

This is quite a good thread. I wheel an auto and know the benefits, mainly left foot braking and quick gear change for driving up sand dunes. I havnt wheeled a manual so I was reading this with the purpose of discovering why some people like a manual over an auto and what benefits a manual has. Compression braking and push/roll starting is not enough reason to wheel a manual for me, when was the last time you were impressed by some1 crawling downhill with no brake lights on?

[Red89]

skotup wrote:

This is quite a good thread. I wheel an auto and know the benefits, mainly left foot braking and quick gear change for driving up sand dunes. I havnt wheeled a manual so I was reading this with the purpose of discovering why some people like a manual over an auto and what benefits a manual has. Compression braking and push/roll starting is not enough reason to wheel a manual for me, when was the last time you were impressed by some1 crawling downhill with no brake lights on?

You wouldnt happen to own a jeep would you ?

http://www.perth4x4.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37834

[SuziBlu]

skotup wrote:

when was the last time you were impressed by some1 crawling downhill with no brake lights on?

IMO anyone doing very steep descents with brakes is a dick.

[shakes]

SuziBlu wrote:

skotup wrote:

when was the last time you were impressed by some1 crawling downhill with no brake lights on?

IMO anyone doing very steep descents with brakes is a dick.

And when your gearing wont slow you down to a safe enough speed?

[atari4x4]

Red89 wrote:

skotup wrote:

This is quite a good thread. I wheel an auto and know the benefits, mainly left foot braking and quick gear change for driving up sand dunes. I havnt wheeled a manual so I was reading this with the purpose of discovering why some people like a manual over an auto and what benefits a manual has. Compression braking and push/roll starting is not enough reason to wheel a manual for me, when was the last time you were impressed by some1 crawling downhill with no brake lights on?

You wouldnt happen to own a jeep would you ?

http://www.perth4x4.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37834

& started any jeep forums lately?

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... it=ausjeep

[matty87]

shakes wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

skotup wrote:

when was the last time you were impressed by some1 crawling downhill with no brake lights on?

IMO anyone doing very steep descents with brakes is a dick.

And when your gearing wont slow you down to a safe enough speed?

X2

[MacDaddy]

Red89 wrote:

skotup wrote:

This is quite a good thread. I wheel an auto and know the benefits, mainly left foot braking and quick gear change for driving up sand dunes. I havnt wheeled a manual so I was reading this with the purpose of discovering why some people like a manual over an auto and what benefits a manual has. Compression braking and push/roll starting is not enough reason to wheel a manual for me, when was the last time you were impressed by some1 crawling downhill with no brake lights on?

You wouldnt happen to own a jeep would you ?

http://www.perth4x4.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37834

Jeez Check out the agro... made me laugh... i noticed a couple of Perth AZ members in their too !

[joeblow]

tanshi wrote:

once they are manualised so you can choose the gear your in, they are even better

ummmm....mines not manualised........but i can move the t-bar where to which gear i want.

[303zuke]

Red89 wrote:

skotup wrote:

This is quite a good thread.

You wouldnt happen to own a jeep would you ?

http://www.perth4x4.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37834

A real Jeep, with chassis

[skotup]

hahaha, i see my reputation proceeds me (preceeds?).

But yes, i do own a shitty old jeep, but not a real jeep with a chassis , thank you 303zuke lol,

I knew this lack of respect for compression braking would get a responce, thats why i mentioned it.

Compression braking is 1 of those holy rules held in such high regard. But after using brake going up hill as well as down hill, i am questioning these old 4wd techniques. When was the last time any of you disconnected the radiator fan before you did a water crossing so that the fan blades didnt bend in towards the radiator heatsink? These ideas were preached for such a long time. I used to cringe every time i saw a 4wd drive near the waters edge on wet sand, knowing that there's a chance they may encounter some soft sand and not be able to recover up the beach before the tide comes in. But now, if i know the sand is hard enough i'll drive on it, cautiously. And I use assessment as to weather or not i can drive across the face of a slope rather than going by the biblical rule of up and down a slope only.

So no, i dont disconnect my fan blades for water crossings, sometimes i do drive near the water edge, sometimes i drive across the face of a hill and yes, sometimes i use the brake going down hill in the same way ide use it for control going up hill. Ide be interested to see what the comp guys think of compression braking for a decent, im guessing they are probably indifferent. I enjoy pushing these 4wd boundaries i grew up with.

[Polar_Bear]

SuziBlu wrote:

skotup wrote:

when was the last time you were impressed by some1 crawling downhill with no brake lights on?

IMO anyone doing very steep descents with brakes is a dick.

they have this new invention called ABS...

[SuziBlu]

Ok, if you have over run, of course use brakes, der, im talking about people who will stay in a higher gear and ride the brakes, every time.