[Fatzook]

Microwire wrote:

Hah nice. I'll give it a shot tomorrow and see how I go, would you agree with The ninja that I should go hooks or just go holes and shackles?

Also on a side note, if I'm building bash plates what thickness plate should I use?

Holes and laminating plates if you want to weld, or recovery hooks and HT bolts if you don't.

I'm making mine from dimple died 3mm Bisalloy ( high impact, high memory steel), but that shit is so hard to work with I would not recommend it.

I'd say 4mm steel or 6mm ally. It really depends on your budget and how much rock driving you plan on doing.

[Microwire]

My budget is low at the moment until my next allocation from my wife heh, I do more rock driving than I'd like and after ending up on the chassis/exhaust with no wheels on the ground the other weekend I'm thinking I need a little more protection. 4mm steel sounds the way for me.

Just googled that other stuff, you can keep that and then you can make me some armour plating

[Fatzook]

Microwire wrote:

My budget is low at the moment until my next allocation from my wife heh, I do more rock driving than I'd like and after ending up on the chassis/exhaust with no wheels on the ground the other weekend I'm thinking I need a little more protection. 4mm steel sounds the way for me.

Just googled that other stuff, you can keep that and then you can make me some armour plating

4mm Will do. If you need to make any bends, just use a grinder to score the material where you want to fold it (1/2 the depth of the material) and then it should be easier to fold. Or pay to have it bent (recommended)

[Microwire]

Sweet thanks for the tips Fatzook, I was trying to work out some sort of clamp, jack and bend system heh this sounds a bit easier.

So.... when do you think TSOR will be making bash blates?

[Fatzook]

Microwire wrote:

So.... when do you think TSOR will be making bash blates?

Like alot of my products I have them designed, I am just waiting on the laser cutters to start up after xmas break. December was a joke, as they plugged in twice as many orders than they could cut, so between that shit fight and the floods, I'm pretty well fucked for this month, and probably next But soon. Soon as humanly possible

PS. I wish I could afford my own laser tale and pressbrake

[Microwire]

What a pain, that sucks that you got caught in the floods. When your back online will you be making a fuek tank guard for a 1.6 Carby? I;d be interested in getting some things from you.

I'm guessing those tables and press would be a little exy.

Also any suggestions for snatch points on the rear, what about just bolting hooks straight to the chassis?

[Fatzook]

Microwire wrote:

What a pain, that sucks that you got caught in the floods. When your back online will you be making a fuek tank guard for a 1.6 Carby? I;d be interested in getting some things from you.

I'm guessing those tables and press would be a little exy.

Also any suggestions for snatch points on the rear, what about just bolting hooks straight to the chassis?

I suspect that the SWB efi tank guard will fit, but I have not had the opportunity to test it yet.

Laser = $350K
160t Press $250K

[Microwire]

I was thinking like $10K - $20K, FARK

[Fatzook]

Microwire wrote:

8O

I was thinking like $10K - $20K, FARK

[Microwire]

OK, So I gave it a go today, got some 5mm plate cos they didn't have any 4mm, I figured thicker was probably better.

Here's some pics from start to finish, you get the idea I'm not going to narate.

Before anyone says anything, I know my weld are bad and ugly but do you think they'd hold or should I do it again?

Also I think I'm going to give Shep a run for his money on doing things rough. I bought a hole saw and thought that I had a drill bit and screw-on peice at home, turns out I didn't, not being one to let not having the right tools for the job stop me I improvised. I found something with the right thread (a brass temp sensor from a commodore) screwed that in, then put a socket peice on the end and then found a bolt that fit into the socket opening. There you have it on perfect but difficult to use hole saw.

ps. Sorry for hijacking your thread

[atari4x4]

beefy, job well done.

[Fatzook]

Good job!

Welding upside down is an aquired skill You didn't got too badly though

Just remember that the plates you welded on aren't taking the full force of any recovery. They are sharing with the parent metal that you welded to, so it will be heaps strong enough! Also it should be ALOT harder to bend those tangs on rocks etc now.

Go give it hell

EDIT: You doin the other side?

[Microwire]

Thanks guys, yeah welding upside down was awkward, I was thinking I should have lifted the car a bit, and the shower of molten metal wasn't as good as it sounds.

Yea I'll be doing the other side, Probably do that tomorrow, I feel like going for a wheel now

14mm wide I don't think it'll be bending anytime soon

[Chop]

Great job, i will need to do something similar when i take my bar off and fit a winch and repair some damage on it.

[Fatzook]

Microwire wrote:

14mm wide I don't think it'll be bending anytime soon

Thats how I do the recovery points on my bars too.

[Microwire]

Sweet, maybe I can get a job at TSOR if I move to QLD

Took her out for a wheel went really well, didn't get to use my new recovery point though

[Fatzook]

Microwire wrote:

Sweet, maybe I can get a job at TSOR if I move to QLD

Took her out for a wheel went really well, didn't get to use my new recovery point though

Hahaha Why not.

[Gwagensteve]

christover1 wrote:

http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/VITARA-/-X90/Recovery-Bar/prod_14.html

Does anyone else think this is scary? as far as I can see, the only thing stopping the allthread flopping around inside the tube are 4 washers.

It's a big, scary, single shear mess IMHO.

I'm sure it works, after a fashion, but I'd like to see the recovery eyes keyed into the tube rather than just jammed up against it.

I've had a look at this guys site and I'm not overwhelmed by his design skills.

Steve.

[royce]

Gwagensteve wrote:

christover1 wrote:

http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/VITARA-/-X90/Recovery-Bar/prod_14.html

Does anyone else think this is scary? as far as I can see, the only thing stopping the allthread flopping around inside the tube are 4 washers.

It's a big, scary, single shear mess IMHO.

I'm sure it works, after a fashion, but I'd like to see the recovery eyes keyed into the tube rather than just jammed up against it.

I've had a look at this guys site and I'm not overwhelmed by his design skills.

Steve.

Nope, I reckon its hands down the single best option for a recovery point on the models its fits available to people that have no idea on how to design or weld in a proper recovery point (and I reckon there might be 2 or 3 people on here at best could do it properly)

the washers cap the tube if you bothered to read and the nuts just slide inside the tube, I cant remember what size thread that works out to be but in 8.8 grade its going to hold up to a shit load more than a stinky ARB bar or some shitty hook, the load is going to be better spread acros the front of the chassis as well

[Microwire]

Does that include My efforts I'll be happy if mine holds long enough to get me unstuck.

[royce]

Microwire wrote:

Does that include My efforts I'll be happy if mine holds long enough to get me unstuck.

your bar hasnt even got all its mounts in

[Microwire]

royce wrote:

Microwire wrote:

Does that include My efforts I'll be happy if mine holds long enough to get me unstuck.

your bar hasnt even got all its mounts in

Heh, tomorrow it'll be all different, should take half the time too.

[Gwagensteve]

royce wrote:

Nope, I reckon its hands down the single best option for a recovery point on the models its fits available to people that have no idea on how to design or weld in a proper recovery point (and I reckon there might be 2 or 3 people on here at best could do it properly)

the washers cap the tube if you bothered to read and the nuts just slide inside the tube, I cant remember what size thread that works out to be but in 8.8 grade its going to hold up to a shit load more than a stinky ARB bar or some shitty hook, the load is going to be better spread acros the front of the chassis as well

I did "bother to read" Royce, but I didn't properly comprehend how retarded this design was. In fact, it's more retarded than I thought. This is far from "the single best option" this is a half baked idea from someone with a website full of them.

If I bolted a recovery hook to my chassis, but spaced it off the chassis by stacking nuts between the hook and the chassis, every one would have a shit hemorrhage. Apparently though, it's fine if it's done like this. This design is putting huge bending and shear loads on the all thread. How hard would it have been to machine some spacers to create a nice snug fit in the crossmember? Even that would have been a start (but still quite retarded)

I don't care if it's better than using the tiedown ring. This is a crap design. I can't be bothered drawing or explaining the half a dozen ways this could be done better with basic parts to make it far less hack, but the obvious way is to use some spacers, or even better, sleeve the allthread with heavy wall tube and set the lugs over the heavy wall tube, then the all thread isn't trying to bend when the recovery is side loaded, it's only being used in tension, not in shear.

I'll agree that this might be better than the tie down ring, but that doesn't mean it's a well designed part.

If this truly was " the single best option" then I'd be using it with a bridle. It's not the "single best option" though. It's a good idea terribly executed.

Steve.

[royce]

The nuts used are a snug fit in the tube, at best they may allow the allthread to flex 2mm

Tell me at what force, sideways or in shear say M28 grade 8.8 will let go at, assuming it is allowed to flex like you claim it will.

Your design of setting the lugs over over heavy wall tube would make no difference to how the allthread would bend, unless the lugs are welded to the heavy wall tube, already we are back into the realm of not enough people qualified to do that properly

[ajsr]

royce wrote:

The nuts used are a snug fit in the tube, at best they may allow the allthread to flex 2mm

Tell me at what force, sideways or in shear say M28 grade 8.8 will let go at, assuming it is allowed to flex like you claim it will.

Your design of setting the lugs over over heavy wall tube would make no difference to how the allthread would bend, unless the lugs are welded to the heavy wall tube, already we are back into the realm of not enough people qualified to do that properly

according to my bolt spec sheets , 8.8 m28 course tread should sheer at minimum 13 tonne side load.

snap lenght ways 28 tonne min


but I doubt that is 28mm dia rod, the nut may be 28mm the thread rod dia is probably more like m16 ,18 or maybe 20mm

16mm side load is about 4 tonne, but that would only be provided it stayed tight and there was no crushing of the tube

[Gwagensteve]

royce wrote:

The nuts used are a snug fit in the tube, at best they may allow the allthread to flex 2mm

Tell me at what force, sideways or in shear say M28 grade 8.8 will let go at, assuming it is allowed to flex like you claim it will.

M28? Are you sure? Golly. I'd say M20, tops, but anyway I still can't understand why you'd design something that puts bending/and shear load on a critical part when it wasn't necessary. It's using a really strong item but using it in the weakest possible way. That's poor design. (Quite apart from using nuts as an alignment/sleeve device. That's like putting a hexagonal peg in a round hole.

Have a bit more of a think about setting the lugs over a tube set though the crossmember. If the tube was the right length and some appropriate doubling washers placed over the ends, there would be NO bending load on the the all thread, only tension. It's only there to stop the lug pulling off the end of the tube.

I'll reiterate, it's a good idea, badly executed. Will It break? probably not. Might it become a bit sloppy over time? Probably. Might that sloppiness result in shock loading of the allthread (along with the bending/shear load)? Maybe? Could it be done better to eliminate that as a problem? Way yes.

PS I typed that response before AJSR's.

Steve.

[royce]

ajsr wrote:

royce wrote:

The nuts used are a snug fit in the tube, at best they may allow the allthread to flex 2mm

Tell me at what force, sideways or in shear say M28 grade 8.8 will let go at, assuming it is allowed to flex like you claim it will.

Your design of setting the lugs over over heavy wall tube would make no difference to how the allthread would bend, unless the lugs are welded to the heavy wall tube, already we are back into the realm of not enough people qualified to do that properly

according to my bolt spec sheets , 8.8 m28 course tread should sheer at minimum 13 tonne side load.

snap lenght ways 28 tonne min


but I doubt that is 28mm dia rod, the nut may be 28mm the thread rod dia is probably more like m16 ,18 or maybe 20mm

16mm side load is about 4 tonne, but that would only be provided it stayed tight and there was no crushing of the tube

Can you share the sheets? I looked and couldn't find anything, btw whats it say for M12

When these things first started getting noticed I was still at Blackwoods so wandered out to the nuts to find one that diagonally would still slip inside the crossmember tube (42mm ID) and FROM MEMORY (was 5 odd years ago now) thats what size come up, was definitely over 20mm

Gwagon, yes its the worst possible way to use the parts but its also the best the average joe can go get and assemble with a minimum of tools and get an outcome with some amount of repeatability with whats available to work with, but using fasteners that are stupidly over rated for the job its unlikley to be a problem

The fasteners also cost next to nothing

[Gwagensteve]

royce wrote:

Gwagon, yes its the worst possible way to use the parts but its also the best the average joe can go get and assemble

And you're absolutely right, but the link is to a guy running a business, not an average joe with a Blackwoods catalogue.

You're also right, the parts cost stuff all.

This guy is asking 50 odd quid for this collection of parts anyone could get for stuff all and come up with an equally poorly designed solution.

With a small amount more thought and investment in machining, there would be no need for this conversation - It would be a very elegant solution.

I guess I expect well engineered solutions if I'm spending money with a business, and I'll stand by my comments that this isn't a well engineered solution. It's hack to start guessing on shear/bending loads on dynamic recoveries because of poor design.

PS The bigger problem is that someone will see this on the internet and replicate this with mild steel allthread and a loose fit and something not all that good will happen.

Steve.

[ajsr]

Royce I'll see if I can get the rep to give me a copy of the spec sheets for you.

[royce]

or a pdf we can stick up here

maybe Fatzook might think about getting some plates cut, a nut to suit is always going to be a lot cheaper than getting something else made up