[JrZook]

Fatzook wrote:

tanshi wrote:

Which is why once i get my manifold done i will be asking Dan to come round and work on my mega squirt for the 50 . you can weld alloy cant you pete wonder how much i can get out of the factory 27 kw the 50 puts out lol

Yep. I might drop the turbo setup for cammo onto the ute and slap a megasquirt on for Dan to play with too.

And yes I am set up to MIG ally. Still don't have an AC TIG though

Or you can drop the turbo, mani and megasquirt in Dan's ride so he can paly with it and try to work it out

Ps Pete check your pm's slacker

[tanshi]

JrZook wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

tanshi wrote:

Which is why once i get my manifold done i will be asking Dan to come round and work on my mega squirt for the 50 . you can weld alloy cant you pete wonder how much i can get out of the factory 27 kw the 50 puts out lol

Yep. I might drop the turbo setup for cammo onto the ute and slap a megasquirt on for Dan to play with too.

And yes I am set up to MIG ally. Still don't have an AC TIG though

Or you can drop the turbo, mani and megasquirt in Dan's ride so he can paly with it and try to work it out

Ps Pete check your pm's slacker

Im sure Lil foot would sound sweet with a 550cc efi two stroke running it around for a couple of weeks

[JrZook]

Fatzook wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

i am also keen to know why the 1.6 bottom end doesn't work with the gti head... no one seems keen to say WHY it doesn't. the gti boys seem to get good power, and i would have thought the extra 300cc would just make it that much better in the bush!

You gain some torque from the extra capacity, but the peak power does't increase that much. It does move higher up the rev range though. And something else to consider is that the G16B doesn't like to rev like the GTi does. Not sure id the crank, rods etc are up to the task over time.

There has been a few threads on it already. Mnemonix have played with it for a while. You basically if I remember end up with a low compression motor that doesn't like to rev nor produce power. Danny who was in townsville also [played with this setup but using a G15 block. That was also a gutless dog until he got the snail on it!!

[Fatzook]

JrZook wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

tanshi wrote:

Which is why once i get my manifold done i will be asking Dan to come round and work on my mega squirt for the 50 . you can weld alloy cant you pete wonder how much i can get out of the factory 27 kw the 50 puts out lol

Yep. I might drop the turbo setup for cammo onto the ute and slap a megasquirt on for Dan to play with too.

And yes I am set up to MIG ally. Still don't have an AC TIG though

Or you can drop the turbo, mani and megasquirt in Dan's ride so he can paly with it and try to work it out

Ps Pete check your pm's slacker

My PC turns itself off whenever it pleases, and in doing so marks all posts and messages as read. I missed your PM

I'll go have a read of it now

[JrZook]

tanshi wrote:

JrZook wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

tanshi wrote:

Which is why once i get my manifold done i will be asking Dan to come round and work on my mega squirt for the 50 . you can weld alloy cant you pete wonder how much i can get out of the factory 27 kw the 50 puts out lol

Yep. I might drop the turbo setup for cammo onto the ute and slap a megasquirt on for Dan to play with too.

And yes I am set up to MIG ally. Still don't have an AC TIG though

Or you can drop the turbo, mani and megasquirt in Dan's ride so he can paly with it and try to work it out

Ps Pete check your pm's slacker

Im sure Lil foot would sound sweet with a 550cc efi two stroke running it around for a couple of weeks

What were making a v6 1100cc efi two stroke for lil foot!! Awesome!!

[tanshi]

yes, yes we are!!! get to work

[atari4x4]

jonno_racing wrote:

i have owned 5 sierras now. with at least 4 different motors all together.

does that include Pintara Zook & Tuff Truck Zook?

[Fatzook]

JrZook wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

i am also keen to know why the 1.6 bottom end doesn't work with the gti head... no one seems keen to say WHY it doesn't. the gti boys seem to get good power, and i would have thought the extra 300cc would just make it that much better in the bush!

You gain some torque from the extra capacity, but the peak power does't increase that much. It does move higher up the rev range though. And something else to consider is that the G16B doesn't like to rev like the GTi does. Not sure id the crank, rods etc are up to the task over time.

There has been a few threads on it already. Mnemonix have played with it for a while. You basically if I remember end up with a low compression motor that doesn't like to rev nor produce power. Danny who was in townsville also [played with this setup but using a G15 block. That was also a gutless dog until he got the snail on it!!

So I guess the general consensis is that slapping a GTI head straight onto a G16 bottom end is a fruitless activity. However if further work is carried out it has potential to be a great motor. But one has to wonder if the end result can't just be achieved by slapping a turbo on a mild G16B? ( ala oozuk )

[jonno_racing]

yeah i was thinking that may be the issue.

there was talk on redline a while back about the strenght of a 1600 bottom end, and some one was saying there race car was running stock g16b crank/rods, and producing 130ish kws at the wheels and he was spinning that to 8900rpm. not sure how long it would last tho!!!!!!

but once again each to there own, i have had people tell me straight up that the gti is a dog of a conversion and has no torque at all etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVyJijArFv0

if u look at that vid it kind of states its not i will add that little spot looks a whole lot harder from the bottom. but yeah i crawled up it not a issue. i think people who winge about no torque are missing gearing.

i did look into the g16/gti conversion when i blew up my last twin cam. i just decided to go back with what i knew worked well for me.

[Fatzook]

No offence phil, but a stock 1L could drive that.

[JrZook]

Lol jonno 6.5's, 31's even tanshis 550cc two stroke would do that
What rpm were you at by the way?

[jonno_racing]

yeah i know that.. it was just me trying to show that its not a dog of a thing at low revs!

i think around 1300-1700rpm

[tanshi]

oi! im not sure if thats supposed to be insulting or not!

my lj on 33s that went places that no other cars on a certain trip could get their cars to go??

[Fatzook]

jonno_racing wrote:

yeah i know that.. it was just me trying to show that its not a dog of a thing at low revs!

i think around 1300-1700rpm

Mate you have buckley of PROVING that. Its a seat of the pants thing. Only those who have driven a GTI powered zook actually know what they are like. Personally I don't think they have enough torque to pull the skin off a rice pudding, but I am basing that on my driving experiences in G16B's.

[Jasen]

As i understand it the reason that swappin a GTi head onto another G-series block is not a great idea due to the G13B having a fully counter-balanced crank whereas the other G-series engines do not. (Hence why the G13B loves to rev and the other G's not so much)

Is this correct?

[jonno_racing]

Fatzook wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

yeah i know that.. it was just me trying to show that its not a dog of a thing at low revs!

i think around 1300-1700rpm

Mate you have buckley of PROVING that. Its a seat of the pants thing. Only those who have driven a GTI powered zook actually know what they are like. Personally I don't think they have enough toque to put the skin off a rice pudding, but I am basing that on my driving experiences in G16B's.

that's true pete, and its a opinion thing... i have driven 1.6 zooks and been on trips with them and i don't think there all they are cracked up to be.
good yes, perfect no
same as a gti imo a bit less down low but tones more up top.

look i am happy with what i have. i have NEVER ever thought i needed more torque.

[JrZook]

tanshi wrote:

oi! im not sure if thats supposed to be insulting or not!

my lj on 33s and an LSD that went places that no other unlocked on peanut tires cars on a certain trip could get their cars to go??

Not insulting the 550 :p. Thing went super well!! Cant wait to see it on all 3 cylinders not 2.5!

[Fatzook]

Jasen wrote:

As i understand it the reason that swappin a GTi head onto another G-series block is not a great idea due to the G13B having a fully counter-balanced crank whereas the other G-series engines do not. (Hence why the G13B loves to rev and the other G's not so much)

Is this correct?

Just one of the reasons...

[tanshi]

come up to TT on the 12-13th. i have it running on 3 now

[mnemonix]

jonno_racing wrote:

i am also keen to know why the 1.6 bottom end doesn't work with the gti head... no one seems keen to say WHY it doesn't. the gti boys seem to get good power, and i would have thought the extra 300cc would just make it that much better in the bush!

The static compression is far to low at 7.8:1, also hindered by the head flow/velocity.
This is the main reason for the lack of torque, and overall power output.

I've spent many thousands of dollars on my engine chasing more power, And the end aim is only 100kw at the wheels. It's a hell of a big bill for what will be achieved.

[Fatzook]

mnemonix wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

i am also keen to know why the 1.6 bottom end doesn't work with the gti head... no one seems keen to say WHY it doesn't. the gti boys seem to get good power, and i would have thought the extra 300cc would just make it that much better in the bush!

The static compression is far to low at 7.8:1, also hindered by the head flow/velocity.
This is the main reason for the lack of torque, and overall power output.

I've spent many thousands of dollars on my engine chasing more power, And the end aim is only 100kw at the wheels. It's a hell of a big bill for what will be achieved.

100kw can be achieved with a mildly worked G16B and good turbo install. And you won't end up with a motor that is so highly strung that one bad batch of fuel sees it melting pistons.

But we need people like mnemonix to show us what not to do

[mnemonix]

I agree mate. Given my own choice I would go with a g16b every time. And it's the only option I recommend.
I just chose to take on a barely running project when I bought my car, that happened to be a poor excuse of a hybrid.
So I decided to work with what I've got, for better or worse.

All I try to do is make people aware of the negatives, because there is too much talk of bullshit high power outputs and happy stories with this conversion.

[IN2DEP]

1.6L head has more air flow then the gti head,

Standard gti head flows around 170cfm and the gti head that i had on my MK2 gti had 186cfm, and that was .5 larger valves (honda civic ones) and race ported, but the standard 1.6 head flows at around 206cfm so you dont really get much gain

Maybe more torqu being a twin cam, not to sure

But with the weak 1.6 crank just replace it with a honda civic crank, its been done before

If you want more power out of the 1.6 bore it out to a 1.8L friend on redline has done it and OMG the Gssssssssss hehhe that was awsome

[atari4x4]

j20a = 97kw standard

[got_bar_work]

I looked at that when we did my motor and it was decided that there wasn't enough meat between the bores to be going that big. Don't think it would last long.
That and the piston would be under the head gasket unless u could get a custom one made.

[skyman]

I read the thread and what I didn't hear, is if anyone has extensively ported the DOHC head. Is it the valves in the GTI that are too small for the flow?

I am curious, thoughts would be more valve=more flow=more power, but in reality it doesn't always work that way I guess. I can see looking at it without reading or learning about it real experiences it sounds like a great engine on paper.

So anyways, I am wondering if anyone has hogged out the GTI head added a set of cams with a longer duration, made the intake to flow as much as possible, then slapped it on a 1600cc bottom end.


If a guy could get that head to flow as well as the 1600 16 valve head you'd probably have a good engine on your hands, course you would want to deck the head to get the compression back u (if that's possible).

I guess I see the 1.6 16 valve making almost 20HP more than the 8 valve 1.6 valve with the same block, so getting a twin cam flowing properly with good compression, and decent set of cams should yield; a good out put, light engine......at least one would think

[JrZook]

skyman wrote:

I read the thread and what I didn't hear, is if anyone has extensively ported the DOHC head. Is it the valves in the GTI that are too small for the flow?

I am curious, thoughts would be more valve=more flow=more power, but in reality it doesn't always work that way I guess. I can see looking at it without reading or learning about it real experiences it sounds like a great engine on paper.

So anyways, I am wondering if anyone has hogged out the GTI head added a set of cams with a longer duration, made the intake to flow as much as possible, then slapped it on a 1600cc bottom end.


If a guy could get that head to flow as well as the 1600 16 valve head you'd probably have a good engine on your hands, course you would want to deck the head to get the compression back u (if that's possible).

I guess I see the 1.6 16 valve making almost 20HP more than the 8 valve 1.6 valve with the same block, so getting a twin cam flowing properly with good compression, and decent set of cams should yield; a good out put, light engine......at least one would think

IN2DEP has some specs on his a few posts above. even if you could get the GTI head flowing as good or better than the 16v you still have a super low comp engine ~7.8:1. Still wont go too well

[Fatzook]

skyman wrote:

I read the thread and what I didn't hear, is if anyone has extensively ported the DOHC head. Is it the valves in the GTI that are too small for the flow?

I am curious, thoughts would be more valve=more flow=more power, but in reality it doesn't always work that way I guess. I can see looking at it without reading or learning about it real experiences it sounds like a great engine on paper.

So anyways, I am wondering if anyone has hogged out the GTI head added a set of cams with a longer duration, made the intake to flow as much as possible, then slapped it on a 1600cc bottom end.


If a guy could get that head to flow as well as the 1600 16 valve head you'd probably have a good engine on your hands, course you would want to deck the head to get the compression back u (if that's possible).

I guess I see the 1.6 16 valve making almost 20HP more than the 8 valve 1.6 valve with the same block, so getting a twin cam flowing properly with good compression, and decent set of cams should yield; a good out put, light engine......at least one would think

All good points. But what if you did the same to the G16 16v head? Nice cam with longer duration, ported and flowed head, decked for more compression and fuel/ timing piggyback ECU. Ther gains would have to be as good as the gti head or better. Its swings and roundabouts really. If you have a good 1.6 16v then why would you louse it up with the gti head etc.

[skyman]

I would't dare put one on a 16v block. An 8 valve maybe but not a 16v..those are quick in a samurai already ;D

As for the low compression, would decking the head do it?Or is there too much to make up?

There's not much out for the 16v's, or even the 8v's here for that matter. I know we don't have many high compression pistons, the 8 valve cam's are made for the 1,.3's (do we even have 16v cams in the states?).

With the 8 vale, it's pretty much cam, header, port and bore, which really doesn't net much gain noticeable if you do all of them together, but not enough for me to tear mine down and build it better (I would think?).


I would really like to build a hot 16v, or even my 8v up, but either the vendors in the states are keeping a lid on the hi performance mods, or they just aren't out there for us.

About the GTI head on an 8 valve, it just sounds good. I have no idea if the above state mods would net enough to make it worth it though. to me 20hp (or boosting it to near 100HP would be worth it, way more if you could push it past that.

If I could get the HP, cost would be the only factor in deciding to do an expensive build, or put a turbo/blower on instead.

[Joe]

Joe wrote:

Pretty sure i've read some where that the answer is
Im probally wrong though

Fuck turns out i was right then ay