[zammit]

hey zookers. is anyone running the 4.5 inch lift from off road armory, if so can someone please give me some feed back would be great

cheers. zak

[Rusho]

4.5 inches of lift in a zook = disaster. Think about it before you jump
In head first mate. How is 4.5 inches gained??? Is it a combination of body lift and suspension lift??? A link may be helpful also

[steak_knife]

Rusho wrote:

4.5 inches of lift in a zook = disaster. Think about it before you jump
In head first mate. How is 4.5 inches gained??? Is it a combination of body lift and suspension lift??? A link may be helpful also

http://www.offroad-armory.com/jimny.html


Search noob...

[Gwagensteve]

I think it's all spring (well, spring+spacer), no BL.

I agree, it's a terrible idea. 2" of lift is about all you'd want. beyond that, it's all about managing broken brackets, wobbly handling, and spooky offroad behaviour.

What size tyre do you want to run Zammit?

Steve.

[smiffkid]

that kit will make the car around as high as mine, provinding he wants to run at least a 31.
the only advantage i can see having the 115 mm lift over the 80, is a little bit more flex, im running 80mm and 2 inch bl and the jim still hadles, in my opinion it handels better then stadard

[steak_knife]

smiffkid wrote:

that kit will make the car around as high as mine, provinding he wants to run at least a 31.
the only advantage i can see having the 115 mm lift over the 80, is a little bit more flex, im running 80mm and 2 inch bl and the jim still hadles, in my opinion it handels better then stadard

[smiffkid]

steak_knife wrote:

smiffkid wrote:

that kit will make the car around as high as mine, provinding he wants to run at least a 31.
the only advantage i can see having the 115 mm lift over the 80, is a little bit more flex, im running 80mm and 2 inch bl and the jim still hadles, in my opinion it handels better then stadard

????

[bryce]

hey guys
i have purchased the jsk450 kit.
just waiting for it to arrive. let you know how it goes once all in.

[atari4x4]

smiffkid wrote:

steak_knife wrote:

smiffkid wrote:

that kit will make the car around as high as mine, provinding he wants to run at least a 31.
the only advantage i can see having the 115 mm lift over the 80, is a little bit more flex, im running 80mm and 2 inch bl and the jim still hadles, in my opinion it handels better then stadard

????

school, did you go to one?

80mm + 50mm =

[steak_knife]

atari4x4 wrote:

smiffkid wrote:

steak_knife wrote:

smiffkid wrote:

that kit will make the car around as high as mine, provinding he wants to run at least a 31.
the only advantage i can see having the 115 mm lift over the 80, is a little bit more flex, im running 80mm and 2 inch bl and the jim still hadles, in my opinion it handels better then stadard

????

school, did you go to one?

80mm + 50mm =

But body lift gave more flex....

[Joe]

steak_knife wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

smiffkid wrote:

steak_knife wrote:

smiffkid wrote:

that kit will make the car around as high as mine, provinding he wants to run at least a 31.
the only advantage i can see having the 115 mm lift over the 80, is a little bit more flex, im running 80mm and 2 inch bl and the jim still hadles, in my opinion it handels better then stadard

????

school, did you go to one?

80mm + 50mm =

But body lift gave more flex....

I think he is saying the 115mm is a 4.5 inch lift and that would flex better then a 80mm lift

[Gwagensteve]

And lets be honest, that's unlikely. More spring lift generally requires a higher spring rate and that doesn't help flex, as it makes it harder to get the compressed wheel onto the bumpstop where it can start to force the drooped wheel down.

There is no connection between lift height and flex. (If anything, It's an inverse relationship)

Steve.

[BertZook]

but wht about softer springs??.... I know they would need to be longer to reach the same or more amount of lift, but they wouldnt be eassier to flex as they are softer??... or the extra amount of coil would make it equally harder to flex??





and donno why always most ppl here complain when a jimny owner want to put some big lift... saying its stupid to do it, when most of sierra owners in this site run 2" spring lift + 2" extended shackles + bodylift


.... and u guys have bigger wheel arch than us

[ajsr]

BertZook wrote:

but wht about softer springs??.... I know they would need to be longer to reach the same or more amount of lift, but they wouldnt be eassier to flex as they are softer??... or the extra amount of coil would make it equally harder to flex??





and donno why always most ppl here complain when a jimny owner want to put some big lift... saying its stupid to do it, when most of sierra owners in this site run 2" spring lift + 2" extended shackles + bodylift


.... and u guys have bigger wheel arch than us

in a sierra its a totally different suspension setup.
and a sierra doesnt fall apart when you do these things to the vehicle

[Fatzook]

BertZook wrote:

but wht about softer springs??.... I know they would need to be longer to reach the same or more amount of lift, but they wouldnt be eassier to flex as they are softer??... or the extra amount of coil would make it equally harder to flex??





and donno why always most ppl here complain when a jimny owner want to put some big lift... saying its stupid to do it, when most of sierra owners in this site run 2" spring lift + 2" extended shackles + bodylift


.... and u guys have bigger wheel arch than us

Its just alot harder to 'do it right' on a jimny thanks to the radius arm coil setup. I think most people in this thread are suggesting that maybe 4.5" lift is not necessary. Specially when you consider that the smaller wheel arches will limit your choice in tyre size to the point where a 80mm lift and some bump stop adjustments will net the same 'flex' as a 4.5" lift kit.

[shep]

i dont know anything about coils but to get a lifted leaf car to have a soft ride you need to move
the spring mounting points and use springs that are longer then standard.
spring curve for lift and spring length for comfort.
i dont know how that would transfer to a coil.

[BertZook]

I know coils and springs are two completely different setups, being coils more difficult to lift with more issues

issues that all these "lift kits" should fix..... should, dnt donno excatly how much they actually fix it ...... the bigger they re the more components brings to replace

but every time that a new jimny owner says it want to get something bigger than the 2" lift, lots of ppl complain bout it, when most of them re running big lifts too


if the kit brings everything we need to lift the car and fix all the issues, whts the problem with getting it?.... sadly we cant have bodylift, so we need other source of lift




either way, is interesting the topic of how much/lack flex difference with the 80mm/4.5"

and would be good to see someone running this kit, just to see something different out there

still think is bit too big for me, but again still got no money to mod my car, so in the mean time Im still studying my options fo wht to do

[ajsr]

what steve sais a few posts above is more than likely 110% correct.
you will likely get less "flex" as you need a heavier spring rate to hold your vehicle higher up , so you'll get less upward travel.
unless they run more coils on the spring.

personally from what Ive seen of jinmys you might be better doing a smaller lift and then cutting the guards.
but not much of what I've seen under there looked all that promising

[zammit]

yes what steve said is 110% right in theory. the spring rating is alot higher then an 80mm lift. but then again an 80mm lift would have to be substanculy higher then standard lift. so in theory to get best flex i would be better off going 4 inch body. but that ain going to happen. what you also have to take into account is the tyre, the tyres i will be running will be roughly 20% bigger then standard. i.e 20% heavier. so should even out the dilema i would get with " lack of flex"

cheers

[Gwagensteve]

You're right about the spring rate thing Zammit... and there's the point - even an 80mm lift will hurt flex, and when you look at the effect of an 80mm lift on the angle of radius arm, you'll start to see that 80mm of lift is causing more problems with the suspension than just the added spring rate.

The higher the lift, the steeper the angle on the arms, the more suspension load is forced up the arm and into the chassis rather than being transferred into the spring. That causes a harsher ride and results in broken mounts.

Steeper angles on the radius arm increase apparent bump steer, because they accentuate axle walk as the suspension flexes.

These problems are true for caster corrected arms too - It's not a result of caster, it's an effect of excessive lift.

Is it fixable? Yes, but like everything, there's a wrong way or the long way of doing it. Drop boxes are an answer for the geometry, but there's an additional problem - the radius arms are short - and for good reason- they were only intended for 5" of travel.
Try to crank more travel out of them and you end up asking too much of the radius arm bushes, because the angle change between the compressed and drooped arms are too great for the bushes to deal with. The answer is longer arms and bigger bushes, but obviously, fitting longer arms is a huge job.

Returning to springs, to run a lift spring that has a low rate, it has to start out much, much longer than a lift spring with a higher rate than stock. In fact, some lift springs are actually shorter than the stock spring for that application.

My background to this is I run a Gwagen with radius arms front and rear suspension and I had springs made for it, which was quite complex. Additionally, I built radius arm rear suspension for my Sierra. It works well, but it has very modest flex, because of the nature of radius arm suspension. It uses range rover arms.

At the end of the day, there's no net advantage of 4.5" of suspension lift over, say, 2", for the ways we are using our cars. If we're running lift to fit a tyre, then it's the bumpstop spacers that are allowing the tyre to fit, not the spring lift. If we run 2" of bumpstop spacer (and there's rarely need for more than that) the 2" of spring lift will restore stock compression travel. An additional 2.5" of compression travel beyond stock isn't really much advantage. It's cool for high speed work, but it's a Jimny (or sierra) how fast can you go? It's certainly not an advantage when it makes it hard to get the axle to the bumpstop, and pumps up the centre of gravity.

Zammit, it sounds like you are trying to run a 31" tyre. Put 2" on the bumpstop spacer, cut the guards to suit and run whatever spring you want based on how much compression travel you need to do the job. That might not be very much. Stock springs with a small spacer might be plenty if you're into technical driving rather than high speed driving.

Obviously, you can run longer shocks along with the bumpstop spacing, and achieve a useful gain in flex from that alone.

From a spring design standpoint, It gets quite hard to fit (let's say) a stock rate spring into a car whilst expecting suspension lift from that spring- It's hard to manage the overall length of the spring, the compressed length, desired compression travel, and retain standard mounts. (and still be able to install it)

As has been pointed out, coil/like suspensions are much more complex to lift properly than leaf suspension, however, it's also true of leaf suspension that excessive lift creates a poor outcome - 2" of spring lift is the limit for a leaf sierra to retain acceptable flex and ride.

Steve.

[smiffkid]

having a big coil in your car with a shock to suit will give you more flex,
unless u run huge bump stops and just use it for lift.

[Fatzook]

smiffkid wrote:

having a big coil in your car with a shock to suit will give you more flex,
unless u run huge bump stops and just use it for lift.

Did you read any of the above posts?

[ajsr]

Fatzook wrote:

smiffkid wrote:

having a big coil in your car with a shock to suit will give you more flex,
unless u run huge bump stops and just use it for lift.

Did you read any of the above posts?

i'm not sure he understands the above pete.
it's higher and therefore must travel further

[smiffkid]

it does travel further,
i dnt see many comp cars with standard height and lots of travel.

[Fatzook]

smiffkid wrote:

it does travel further,
i dnt see many comp cars with standard height and lots of travel.

They have lifted for ground clearance and wheel clearance. There would be more travel than stock, but it won't be proportional to the lift.

[RIKSTR]

zammit wrote:

hey zookers. is anyone running the 4.5 inch lift from off road armory, if so can someone please give me some feed back would be great

cheers. zak

Its funny how no one has actually helped or answered this question. Just a bunch of negitive "2" is the biggest you should go" crap.

All of these responses should be;

No I am not running that kit so I know nothing about it.

[tanshi]

RIKSTR wrote:

zammit wrote:

hey zookers. is anyone running the 4.5 inch lift from off road armory, if so can someone please give me some feed back would be great

cheers. zak

Its funny how no one has actually helped or answered this question. Just a bunch of negitive "2" is the biggest you should go" crap.

All of these responses should be;

No I am not running that kit so I know nothing about it.

Or they should have been, No i haven't used the kit because, no one in their right mind is going to lift a jimny 4.5 inches

[RIKSTR]

If its done right there is no issue with a 4.5" lift with coils.

How much do you know aobut the lift in question?

[BertZook]

ok, we know that big lift implies fixing and dealing with bunch of stuff....... we re not dumb and we know that a lift like that is more than a coil and a shock... hence why these kits re sell in a "kit", with all the extra components to secure the lift is made properly.....(at least that is what they claim )

so instead of keep hammering us why just dnt we make it simple and all make a look of wht this "kit" includes,

Quote:

ALL JSK300/450 KITS Include:
- 4 x Armoury premium quality coil springs.
- Full Vehicle set of long travel ROUGH COUNTRY "8000 series" Shock absorbers.
- 2 x front + 2 x rear Radius Arms (All with our famous "No Questions Asked Warranty!)
- Premium Quality Extended Brake hose kit.
- Front & Rear HD Adjustable Panhard rods, With Ultr Hi-Strength CHROMOLY Rosel Joints.
- 2 x CNC Machined prop shaft spaces.
- 2 x heavy duty CNC profiled rear coil spring clamps.
- Bush fitting tooling (Hydraulic Press Required)

I try to open the D&G Tunning website but aint loading right know.... but I remember their kit it pretty much the same, it just had an extra set of relocation braces to the rear shocks, like the ones that out door auto sells.... and dnt remember if something else too ( think some new bump stops maybe??....)


so know ppl with experience can you say if this kit would be enough to fix all the issues or not??? and if its so, wht else would have to be done in order to run the kit????





we know that a big lift doesnt mean longer travel..... I think we all know that the main reason to do a lift is to fit bigger tyres

assuming that a jimny owner wants to run 31s (and yes, we know we need gearing!!!.... so dnt start with that), wht re our options


for I can see in this website if a sierra wants to run 31s, the best option that ppl do is to run 2" lift, plus a 2" body lift (and some even have extended shackles)...... so a jimny would have to do the same in theory..... but again sierras have a bigger wheel arch... jimnys have it too, but under the plastic and steel flares

and thnks to the laws in this country we cant use a bodylift..... so we have to do it by coils (assuming that somehow you can get it engineer)

so we have to use a 4" lift...... atm the only options around is either 80mm (close to 3")... or the 4.5"

so for wht it looks like 4.5" would eb the option to run 31s, that plus a fair amount of chop chop in order to make the tyres fit thnks to our small wheel arch..... (ask smiffkid that he has 3" plus 2" bodylift and still got to do some chop chop)



so whts the problem with us getting this lift??????




ps: I have see lots and lots of 80/105 even 76 cruisers and GU/GQ patrools running 4" lifts with no dramas, and some even have 5" and 6"

I know that a big car handles different... but I just saying that a big lift can be accomplished

[tanshi]

you will find that most guys in a sierra who drive hardcore stuff off road would rather chop the guards, run 2 inches of spring lift and bump stops than raise the car 2 more inches.

4.5 inches of lift isnt a huge amount. but when you consider a 2 inch lifted jimny vs a 4 inch lifted jimny. i know which one i would rather have on a side angle.