[Fatzook]

tanshi wrote:

you will find that most guys in a sierra who drive hardcore stuff off road would rather chop the guards, run 2 inches of spring lift and bump stops than raise the car 2 more inches.

4.5 inches of lift isnt a huge amount. but when you consider a 2 inch lifted jimny vs a 4 inch lifted jimny. i know which one i would rather have on a side angle.

And add the extra height from the tyres to that 4.5" lift kit ( total of 7" lift for 31's) and thats just scary!

Having said that, if you drive to the conditions ( and within your abilities) you should be fine

[RIKSTR]

Fatzook wrote:

And add the extra height from the tyres to that 4.5" lift kit ( total of 7" lift for 31's) and thats just scary!

Having said that, if you drive to the conditions ( and within your abilities) you should be fine

Just a quick one, but how much height over stock is the ute in your avatar running?

I know that my first Sierra was................now wait for it.................1 foot over stock, thats right 12".

It had a 2" body lift, SPOA and 32"s never had a problem with it, it was also 6" wider than stock. With the weight of teh wheels and the width it was very stable

Its all about horses for courses.

but I would not make one that high again

[tanshi]

my sierra was 8 inches over standard, but was running 33s and was 4 inches wider than standard. Never had an issue, but would much rather looking back have had it 6 inches

my LJ is also on 33s, and is 3.5 inches higher than standard!!!!

[RIKSTR]

tanshi wrote:

you will find that most guys in a sierra who drive hardcore stuff off road would rather chop the guards, run 2 inches of spring lift and bump stops than raise the car 2 more inches.

Thats a good point but has nothing to do with it, we are talking about Jimny's and what you are suggesting is not a realistic option.

Don't get me wrong a Sierra is more stable and sometimes more capable without the extra lift but we are talking about Jimny's.

Sometimes you need more lift to get the tyres you want.

Vitaras are similar with smaller wheel arches, sure you can run 31"s on a vit with 2" lift and some chopping but running 3" lift and a bodylift gets everything to clear nicley and it still has good manners and can be argued that it is a more capable car after the mods.

[shep]

there is no way that i would chop up a new car to get a tyre to fit when there are
reversible kits available that allow the same size tyre to fit without chopping up ya new car.

the op isnt trying to fit tyres to a 20 year old shitbox.

[tanshi]

the theory i see your point. yes if you dont want to put the effort into chopping the guards you need to lift it.

if its only ever going to see car parks and flat dirt roads which is all most jimnys would see then i guess thats ok too.

i dont honestly see the difference between jimnys, vitaras, or sierras, the lower your car is the more stable it will be

[got_bar_work]

I ran a 6"(stuffed up coil size when i measured mates)coil in my vit for a few trips and because of the short rear arms were on a angle it made the car Handel like crap.
I went back to my 3" coils for now and it's so much better.
I would put in some 80series arms if I want that sort of lift or at least some drop boxes or flip the arms ontop of the diff if there is room.
I think a car with 235 and 2"'lift would out climb a car with 4.5 in lift and 31 because the big angle the arms are on.
All the big comp trucks that are so high have complete custom suspension systems to suit the lift and alot are not that high anymore . Most of the hight comes from the big rubber.

[tanshi]

shep wrote:

there is no way that i would chop up a new car to get a tyre to fit when there are
reversible kits available that allow the same size tyre to fit without chopping up ya new car.

the op isnt trying to fit tyres to a 20 year old shitbox.

yeah granted, but i honestly doubt they are going to fit 31s without some chopping any way. the space front to back on a jimny isnt going to allow a 31, so while your chopping, why not keep it low.

for a 235 you won't need over 4 inches of lift.

[atari4x4]

if you sit tight, Bryce has got the kit coming in.... maybe search some of the OS Jimny forums for some ACTUAL feed back of the ORA 4.5" kit for Jimny's

http://auszookers.com/index.php?name=Fo ... 967#313967

ORA forum... http://www.offroad-armory.com/images/BI ... 002-LG.jpg

[Gwagensteve]

BertZook wrote:

, wht else would have to be done in order to run the kit????

For the fawking 57676495746th time, BUMPSTOP SPACERS!

There's one great big problem with this kit, (and some other problems that may, or may not be an issue for this market)

If this kit flexes properly, It can't fit a bigger tyre than a stock car. That's because there's nothing to stop the axle moving up to exactly the same spot it could with stock springs and shocks.

If this kit doesn't flex properly, (so it can fit a bigger tyre) it's for the following reasons:

A) The shocks are too long to let the axle reach the bumsptop. That means the shocks are the new bumpstops, and that equals broken shock mounts.

B) The springs are too stiff to let the axle reach the bumpstop. We know what that means - no flex

C) The springs are the new bumpstop - they bottom out on themselves ("coil bind") before the axle can reach the bumpstop. That's retarded. Only calmini think this is a good idea. I'm concerned about this with this kit.


Have a look at this photo:


I don't think these are bigger than 31", It's backed up the ramp (this always makes me nervous and implies the front isn't flexing when climbing, the guards have had the bejeezus cut out of them, and the shocks are fouling the panhard rod, which is the case with large diameter shocks and Jimny's.

The other photo is of a maller.

Now the "small" problems.

This kit is illegal in Australia. Welded radius arms and rose (or Heim) joints on the panhards are the big problems. Getting an engineer to sign off on them will be a big problem. The brake lines will have to go in the bin too - they won't be approved in australia.

There's some comments that no-one can comment on this kit unless they have run it. I disagree. There's no magic here - suspension isn't an art - it's all an application of theory. The theory of how a jimny suspension works is being disregarded here in the interests of lift height.

Steve.

PS the US/european off road scene is full of scary maller products - it's a very image conscious market and they have very little terrain to drive. I'll say again, just because a product can be purchased doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[monley]

I looked at this kit but could not justify spending that money just on the suspension.

[RIKSTR]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Now the "small" problems.

This kit is illegal in Australia. Welded radius arms and rose (or Heim) joints on the panhards are the big problems. Getting an engineer to sign off on them will be a big problem. The brake lines will have to go in the bin too - they won't be approved in australia.

There's some comments that no-one can comment on this kit unless they have run it. I disagree. There's no magic here - suspension isn't an art - it's all an application of theory. The theory of how a jimny suspension works is being disregarded here in the interests of lift height.

Steve.

Your so negitive Steve, maybe you should hang out on Pirate or Outers more.

You CAN get this kit engineered, your whole "Welded radius arms and rose (or Heim) joints on the panhards are the big problems." is not right. And what makes you say the brake lines will be no good.

I have and still can get a Vitara 3" Calmini kit done and it has both of these that you have mentioned. I have also had engineered a 6" Skyjacker kit for a Cherokee and it had heim joints.

Just because everyone does not run a truck like your does not make it wrong.

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, you might be able get that kit engineered. What's required will depend on the state and the requirements of the specific engineer, but it won't be easy. As it sits, it's illegal and requires rework to be eningered. That's not negative, it's a fact.

I've been involved in the engineering of a Calmini kit. It required crack testing of the welded components, which required removal of the powdercoat. Interestingly the heim joint bracket on the kit I tested was actually cracked, so required weld repair and subsequent re crack testing. New fabricated parts require examination to AS1554.1. I'm not convinced the arms in that kit would pass without rework. I'm just being negative though, it's not like I examine and test welds for a living or anything. In any case...

The Heim joint was not permitted by the engineer we used, which is fine, because it doesn't have sufficient travel for the suspension anyway, so we made (and crack tested) a ball joint spacer that the engineer was happy with.... which is interesting because...

The heim Calmini use is of poor quality and develops play very quickly.... as heims do in road driven applications. Hmmm. Those engineers don't know anything though.

Anyway, it may well be a pretty fraught and expensive process to cert that kit, on top of an expensive kit from the outset, with expensive shipping, that doesn't allow a bigger tyre than stock without further work. Sorry if that's negative.

In any case, on what universe does a panhard even require a heim joint? By their very nature, panhards see a very small range of motion. Heims are used on race cars because of their precision. There's no good reason to use them on the panhard only on a lifted 4WD. They don't last in a 4WD environment, so why would you use them in an application where their strengths ( precision and range of motion) aren't required.

I was staggered at how small and tightly bonded the panhard bushes are on a range rover panhard, but they don't hurt travel.

There's a clue to why this kit runs heims. It's not that hard to spot - the website for this vendor is in black and neon green. This guy is mad to be hardcore, and heim joints on your suspension are totally hardcore. It doesn't matter if they are required or not. They're totally xtreem

It wouldn't be hard to fix though... for more $$$ you could buy some adjustable panhards and throw the heims away.

Aftermarket brake lines have to be made by an approved manufacturer. If you have a brake line made, it will be recorded by the manufacturer and the approval number will be on the line. if it's braided it must have a PVC sheath over the braid and its approval number on the line.

I'll reiterate, just because you can buy a part, doesn't make it a good idea.

Rikstr - I love to see good parts and good fabrication, even if the application doesn't float my boat. I have no interest in winch challenge off road racing, but I find the fabrication and ideas fascinating. a 4.5" lifted Jimny isn't fascinating, it's a bad idea.

Steve.

PS if you're going to buy this kit and run it without engineer approval, it's no less illegal than body lifting an airbag equipped Jimny so you can actually run a bigger tyre.

[Gwagensteve]

I was digging through some old photos in my Photobucket account, and came across this:



This guy started out with 30's and 100mm of lift, and ended up at 32's (235/85/16 MTR's on XL-7 rims) with stock springs and 50mm spacers, no body lift. With big bumpstop spacers and long shocks.

It was heavily cut under the plastics, but was stable, predictable, for a Jimny, and locked stock enough it didn't attract attention when it was broken on the side of the trail with another smashed CV or rear diff.

Anyway. That 4.5" it would need about the same amount of cutting to run the same size tyre.... but would be 2.5" taller and therefore less stable. That's good because?

Steve.

[monley]

www.bigjimny.com/image...imming.pdf

Have a look at that link i reckon if you chopped you guards like that with a bit over a 2" lift 31's may just fit nicely.

[RIKSTR]

[shep]

also possible to get passed in the NT, hell we can have extended shackles as long as
caster wedges are used.

[smiffkid]

i reckon just let him run wat ever kit he likes,
im just hanging out to see what it looks like when its done, also u can cut a massive amount out of the front guard on a jimny as yr wheels still hit the floor, i had this problem with 80mm lift 2inch bl and15mm spring spacer, so i moved the diff froward 15mm, plenty of room.

[got_bar_work]

i know the guy that i got my cert from in nsw said as long as the arms come from another car or are a off the shelf item from a company that he would pass them with out testing eg calmini.
he would not pass custom made or one off arms though.

[Gwagensteve]

Serious question- what's the difference?

[shep]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Serious question- what's the difference?

probably because of the company's liability if the part fails verse something stuck together
with a 80amp supercheap welder by a 12yo.

[atari4x4]

shep wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

Serious question- what's the difference?

probably because of the company's liability if the part fails verse something stuck together
with a 80amp supercheap welder by a 12yo.

what something like this... i can't believe Athol an engineer in NSW actually approved this.

got_bar_work wrote:

[JrZook]

^^^^ Messy but it looks pretty solid to me

[atari4x4]

they appear to be "custom made"?

got_bar_work wrote:

he would not pass custom made or one off arms though.

[RIKSTR]

Is it approved?

[JrZook]

atari4x4 wrote:

they appear to be "custom made"?

got_bar_work wrote:

he would not pass custom made or one off arms though.

Arms don't seem to be custom made in that pic, obviously the bottom coil seat is...

[atari4x4]

coil seats are part of the arms on a Vitara, they're not a standard coil seat & it's welded to the arms so it's really a "custom arm"... anyway enough of the thread hijack

back on the topic of ORA

[monley]

I just read this on another forum.

As many of you are probably already aware, a long while ago we had a re-call on our Jimny rear trailing arms manufactured between 1/7/08 and 1/1/10

We are fairly confident that we have contacted pretty much all of the customers that have had these arms, and they have all been issued with the revised design.


However we would like to put this to bed once and for all, so if you have or know anyone who has a set of "early type" O.R.A radius arms... could you please get in contact with us so we get the last few sets of replacements issued.

[atari4x4]

nice find, what board was that on?

[monley]

http://www.bigjimny.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=75