[abclarke]

Hey guys ive been lurking around the forums for a while reading and reading trying to learn about the world of 4WDing.

Right now i have a VX commodore and im planning on selling that and getting my fiancee a little barina and i wanted to get myself a sierra to muck around with

Ive only really ever driven an auto since i got my red P's, only ripping around in work vans and my sisters pulsar which are manuals. Never even been in a 4wd before!

Dont ask why but it just clicked that i wanted to get a sierra and start driving offroad! Bit different from cruising around in my commodore

Anyway what im hoping for is to learn as much as i can before i finally find sell my car and get the other 2. Being a 4th year fitter/machinist apprentice its kinda embarassing only learning about all this now. But i guess its better late than never!

Ive been trying to read into it and my few main questions involve the gearbox and how (or if) you have to select 4wd as opposed to the normal gearing?

Id be guessing that a sierra would be a big change in fuel from my 3.6lt V6 to the 1.3lt? (im hoping for the better?)

Ill probably think of ALOT of other questions so ill keep them all in here for my reference

Thanks for all the help guys and i hope im not being too big of a pain in the ass!

[shep]

it must suck growing up in a city and not being able to have crappy rally cars
before ya get ya license.

[coily96]

Gearbox: 5spd manual, just like a pulsar. But add a transfer case between the gearbox and front and rear drive shafts.

You can use all 5 gears on the streets like any other car, then you have a second gearstick for the transfer case, this selects 4wd as well as high and low 4wd.

Fuel should get better but dont compare the commodore to a sierra when traveling.

The fuel tank is 35ltrs so you would use two tanks to your one commodore tank. But each tank is about $40 to fill so thats about $80 in a commodore.

Say goodbye to 120kmh+ some sierras can do this but would you speed in a small 4x4 thats unstable at low speeds.

I suggest you go 4wdriving with some mates to see if what you want. learn how the gearing and high and low works.

And being a fiiter/machinest would be an advantage driving a 4wd.

[abclarke]

shep wrote:

it must suck growing up in a city and not being able to have crappy rally cars
before ya get ya license.

Not to mention that, but also having no one to teach you how to drive, reason i got an auto in the first place!

coily96 wrote:

Gearbox: 5spd manual, just like a pulsar. But add a transfer case between the gearbox and front and rear drive shafts.

You can use all 5 gears on the streets like any other car, then you have a second gearstick for the transfer case, this selects 4wd as well as high and low 4wd.

Fuel should get better but dont compare the commodore to a sierra when traveling.

The fuel tank is 35ltrs so you would use two tanks to your one commodore tank. But each tank is about $40 to fill so thats about $80 in a commodore.

Say goodbye to 120kmh+ some sierras can do this but would you speed in a small 4x4 thats unstable at low speeds.

I suggest you go 4wdriving with some mates to see if what you want. learn how the gearing and high and low works.

And being a fiiter/machinest would be an advantage driving a 4wd.

Thanks for the help coily, im trying to google a sierras 4wd selector but no luck. Anyone have a picture of the 2 gear sticks just so i can get a better idea?

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what im picturing is the normal stick with the 5 gears and reverse. Then the 4wd stick with 4wd low and high and a neutral to keep it with the normal gearing?

Thats another problem, having no mates with a 4wd let alone a license is a kind of pain in the ass!

[buzbox]

Come down to Nowra sometime and I'll show ya the ins and outs.

[shep]

have you got a manual license? hire a 70 series landcruser for a day and go for a lap
they have a similar system to a sierra. or even just have a read of a owners manual.

[abclarke]

Buzbox - If i ever get a day im not working or busy around the house i might just take you up on that offer!

Shep - Yeah i have my greens now so i can drive either or. After 30 minutes of driving my sisters car i can find it alright driving a manual, ill never learn if i never try!

Ive been trying to look online for an owners manual for a sierra but from what ive read they are rare as going off some other forums posts. Reading a few different sites i think im starting to get a better picture of it. 2H used for day to day driving, only 2 wheels powered. 4H similar to 2H but 4 wheels powered and used for just a bit more torque and traction. Then 4L to use when off roading and when in mud/sand and that?

Id get no where if i didnt like learning new things so much!

[buzbox]

I live near Wollongong, but one of the few legal places to go 4WD'ing is near Nowra and like me it'll probably be where you head out most often for a play.

Sierra's a relativly easy to come by, finding one without rust and in good condition is the challange. Vitara's on the other hand are a bit more plentiful, comfortable and very capable.

The main things you need to think about is how often you will use it offroad, If you prefer comfort, drivability and space.

[abclarke]

Yeah the Vitara was a good point to bring up, but looking around and just at the different models i really like the look of an older sierra.

The main plan is, as soon as i know if works going to keep me on a full time tradesman then ill ditch the commodore for about 9k'ish and buy my fiancee a little auto barina she can learn in and drive to work once she finishes tafe, and if work keeps me on ill end up with a hiace van for day to day work related things (and of course ducking down the shops on the way home). So mainly the sierra would just be a little toy for me to work on and learn as much as i can.

Id only really drive it around campbelltown and maybe back cronulla way to see our family every once and a while.

Ive seen a few online lately but none really close. My main thing im looking for is atleast a little rego and that it runs alright. Rust (as long as its not huge holes) doesnt worry me too much, so ill learn to patch it up myself and painting the panels and that.

Its just all in the planning stages for now, and pretty much waiting to see what happens with work!

[shakes]

good move.

Why hire a car? go to a car yard and take a vitara for a test drive but you've got the general idea of how it works.

Like most older cars sierra's have a lot of quirks. being small and uncomfortable is one of them, vit's are much comfier. Sierra's definately make up for it with the fun factor though.. take buzbox up on the offer if you get the chance. Will give you a much better feel for what your in for.

Lurk around the site for a while, read some builds, and your head will fill full of crazy idea's but also the few main things to look out for.

Good luck.

[coily96]

http://auszookers.com/index.php?name=Fo ... pic&t=4613

3 pic down for the transfer and gear stick

[abclarke]

Sweet as, thanks coily. Gives me a better idea what im thinking about now.

Just a quick question i thought of today, is it possible to get a sierra with a removable rear hardtop cabin? So full hard enclosed roof on top of your head and hard on the back, cept when you wanna take it off?

[atari4x4]

yeah there are 2 piece fiberglass hardtops available for them, roof section & rear section.

they pop up every so often 2nd hand, you need to be quick to grab one otherwise try & find one already fitted to a Sierra thats for sale.

[buzbox]

Living in Campbelltown you'd most probably need to get a hardtop.

[abclarke]

Ah awesome thanks! Yeah i was more looking at getting a hardtop first then maybe putting a sof top on it later on, or is that a bit of a challenge to do?

Something that was on my mind, all this talk about diff lockers. Can someone explain the basics of them and what they are used for? As well as how in a sierra are they locked/unlocked?

Cheers in advance!

[buzbox]

They activate by air pressure from a compressor, you flick a switch and the diff is locked, ie. locks the diff so both wheel spin at the same rate and direction. Unlocked is as if it has a standard diff, Usually you'd flick the switch when there's a tricky section to get through, and unlocked for everyday driving. But there are other options.

[abclarke]

Thats a standard thing? Or is that a modification?

[shakes]

couple of different sorts of lockers all modifcations

welded - illegal, cheap, bit dodge in some people eyes rear diff always locked

Auto lockers - Legality can be a greay area, slightly less dodgy depending who you talk to, locks "when needed"

Air lockers - legal, expensive but you can choose when they activate

[buzbox]

You have to buy the air locker and have it fitted. Usually retail for just over $1200 + fitting. That's why some people to take the cheaper option of welding the diff or putting in a minispool.

[abclarke]

Ah ok that helps alot. So without a locker are you unable to lock the diffs or is there another way?

The minispool option, does anyone have any drawings? Sounds like something i could just machine up

[atari4x4]

mini spool pic

[abclarke]

Ah that looks simple enough, reading about them they just basically lock the 2 shafts together? So its basically like having a flange on them both i assume?

I thought you were able to lock the diffs by using the little 4wd selector? Or am i getting 2 different things confused?

[buzbox]

Getting the two things mixed up.

When you lock the hubs into 4WD it's kinda like allowing the front wheels to be activated providing traction to all 4's, Then with the stubby lever, you select if you want high or low range gearing, That's the transfer case and gearing's job. The diff centre itself is what you need to change to get both wheels spinning the same direction. Both front and rear diffs are open centres.

For example, jack up a RWD car and spin one wheel and watch the other side spin in the opposite direction, changing the diff centre to say a minispool or LSD will make both spin the same direction, because the diff itself is locked. If you have one wheel off the ground, one wheel will keep spining and the other just say's stuff you, lock the diff with an airlocker or whatever then it has no choice but to move because it's getting the same power to both wheels.

Another way of explaining it is, ever done a skid around a corner and the wheel starts spinning? that's because there's more load on one side than the other, do the same with a locked diff and you'd fishtail all the way up the road.. oh the memories

The only better way to explain it is by comming along sometime and I'll show ya..

[neofitou]

How about going to the NSW club meeting?

I dont know what the NSW club is like, but joining the Vic club was the best choice I've made with my new Sierra.
If I had joined when I had my original 1l, which was my first 4wd all those years ago, I would have never given it up.

Not only should you be able to be shown a sierra and educated on 4wds, you should be able to go along on a trip as a passenger, and when you do get your new car you will have people to go 4wding with.

[abclarke]

Buzbox - Thanks for your help as always! And all ya have to do is let me know if your going for a rip around one weekend and ill be more than happy to tag along.

Neofitou - Cheers for the link! Ill register there and have a look around

[skyman]

Here's who the box works.
The 5 speed is normal, nothing changes from car to car. A 5 sped is a 5 speed no matter how may wheels turn

Transfer case explained.

In 2 wheel drive it's just like a 5 speed rear wheel drive car..normal every day 5 speed.

In 4 wheel drive it is exactly the same, except your front tires spin too. Giving you traction at all four wheels. Same gears, same speed just 4 wheels turning.

Now 4 wheel drive low, is exactly the same as 4 wheel high, except the gear ratio is reduced giving you more torque, and less speed.

4wd low is used for allot of things.

You move slower so you are less likely to spin tires. You have more torque, so your engine has enough power to pull the truck up a vertical hill without slipping the clutch. Farmers use 4wd low to pull trees, stumps, and stuck vehicles out of the mud, because there is so much power with lower gears.


The only reason to have a transfer case is to stop the front wheels from turning to save petrol, and wear and tear. They transfer power to the front wheels hence the name. In the beginning trucks and jeeps were full time 4 wheel drive with no selector. Fuel mileage was not an issue, and they were utility vehicles, and war transportation.

Hubs explained
Now hubs, these are another fuel, and wear saving device.

When unlocked they separate the front axle from the tire. This allows the front tires to spin free without turning the axles, saving drag, fuel and wear and tear.

If the hubs are locked in, the tires, axle, and diff all turn together. So even in 2wd running down the road with hubs locked, the tires are attached, and everything mechanical turns (axles, diffs, drive shaft) all the way to the case. You can imagine the weight, and drag. This also causes the vehicle not to coast as well in neutral.

Lockers and traction devices explained

Diffs, LSD's difflock, ARB's etc.
Now on most stock 4 wheel drives, the rear ends turn just like they do on a car, I am sure you know how that works. The problem is when one tire gets lifted off the ground, or has little weight on it, that tire spins, and the other does not. Having regular diffs makes it easy to get stuck. With one wheel off the ground the power never gets to the wheel with traction, the one in the air just sits and spins, while the one on the ground does not move.

What a spool does is sit inside the regular diff. The splined ends of the axles slide into the spool. Since the spool is solid/once piece the tires spin together. Now it does not matter if a tire is in the air, because both axles MUST spin together. The spool makes it hard to turn on pavement, but provides 100% of the power to both wheels. You can weld the gears solid which accomplishes the same thing as a spool (they also call these Lincoln lockers, cig lockers, fozy lockers, and of course a welded rear).

An auto locker is similar to a spool, but it allows some differentiation. With a locker one wheel is allowed to turn faster, or over run the other, but it is never allowed to go slower than the other side. So when you tun on pavement the outside wheel is allowed to "overrun" the inside wheel making for a smooth turn.

The problem is, if you apply power during a turn, the inside tires is now going "slower" than the outside, so the locker must "lock in" both axles tires.

Can you imagine going around a corner with a regular diff, then halfway through the corner having both tires "lock" together solid? The result is that the vehicle wants to go straight now instead of turn and causes a "steering wheel jerk" or heavy torque pull when power is applied in a corner.

Now a selectable locker like the KAM, or ARB is the best of both worlds. On the pavement you keep them unlocked, and they act just like an regular diff. The vehilce corners as normal. When you go off road and need both tires to turn for traction, you flip a switch and the axle acts "locked" just like a spool. Now the tires have 100% power at all times. Flip the switch again, and it is back to a normal diff. Some vehicles come standard with selectable lockers.

Considerations of running Locker

With lockers and spool the tires have to be 100% the same size. One tire a little more worn, or smaller will want to spin faster. With the axles locked together it will want to make the larger tire turn the same speed. This will result in a car pulling very hard to one side, or cause a constant slight turn. uneven tires = bad JuJu.

Tire pressures are also 100% important. If one tire is deflated say 5Lbs less than the other, then it's size has effectively changed. This will cause a lot of uneven tire wear, barking tires, and with a locker, a lot of weird behavior, and locking & unlocking at random times.

Was that too much lol?
I know that is mouthful, headfull, or eye full lol,

I tried to explain it simple, and the best I could. Hopefully you and anyone else coming across this, can get the basics. To anyone else in the know; If I have got something wrong, please slap me a good one, and I will edit the post

4wd drive really is simple, it's just a 5 speed with a shifter to make all four tires turn, and one to lower the gears for power.

Hope it helped. --Sky

[abclarke]

Fark me thanks for all that info skyman! Alot to take in but i should be right!

Something on my mind, might seem stupid to some though. Do you need to use the clutch when using the transfer case stick like you would the normal gear box? Or do you just stop the car (come to a stand still) or can it be done while moving?

By the end of all this, this thread will be a pool of information lol!

[skyman]

You can switch from 4wd to 2wd while moving, but you need to be completely stopped to go into low or high range.

Not stupid at all. I had a guy drive down a steep hill to give me a jump start, and he had me show him how to put it in 4wd and lock in the hubs. He had never used 4wd on a 7 year old truck he bought new.

He was thanking me for showing him how to use 4wd, when I was thanking him for the jump start

[macca85]

Hi, if your after a Suzi workshop manual to work a few things out try here- http://www.suzukiinfo.com/. I downloaded a 1.3 ltr manual from here.

Cheers

[abclarke]

skyman - Thanks for the help. Yea it had me wondering if i was driving along and wanted to go off road if youd have to get out and manually change something or not.

macca85 - Yeah ive had a dig around that site and downloaded the workshop manual. But i think alot of the questions im thinking of would have been covered in the owners manual, which i cant find a copy of anywhere

Anyone have a copy on the computer thatd be willing to share?