[steak_knife]

Taylor74 wrote:

If not there is what MrRocky recons and put a key under the dash somewhere but its messy and not entirley reliable

Not to mension a huge BCM sitting in the VERRY limited space there already is..

Jimny ecu & immob..........

[Taylor74]

Theres room for it if you remove the emmision controller just behind the glove box, but not neat and leaving more things to go wrong. Ill have to get off my arse and have a go on a standard rs swift, swap the ecu and c if i can get past it. got a couple of wrecks at work to try it on

[steak_knife]

Taylor74 wrote:

Theres room for it if you remove the emmision controller just behind the glove box, but not neat and leaving more things to go wrong. Ill have to get off my arse and have a go on a standard rs swift, swap the ecu and c if i can get past it. got a couple of wrecks at work to try it on

I'd me more interested in seeing if the Jim Immob will talk to the swift Ecu, it "should" be able to to be programmed...
A few of the pin out's would need to be changed in the harness tho..

[royce]

does the key have a battery in it for the immobiliser?

if not its jsut an RFID thingo, you only need it from the key and the reciever in the barrel, you can turf the rest

I bed you could make the bcm a lot smaller too

[steak_knife]

royce wrote:

does the key have a battery in it for the immobiliser?

if not its jsut an RFID thingo, you only need it from the key and the reciever in the barrel, you can turf the rest

I bed you could make the bcm a lot smaller too

No.....

has a chip in the key, i used to prograhm chip's out of the key's.....
There is an ant ring on the barrel that is removeable, so once powered up, if a chip was registered to the Bcm & attached to the Ant, it should allow start..

Sure royce.....

[royce]

what the fuck is an ant, why are there bugs stopping the car starting, cant you spray em with mortein?

stop being a mechanic thinking about electricity, think more like an electronics guy I reckon it would take minutes to work out what the bcm is telling the ecu

[Taylor74]

Ant = antenna,it creates a magnetic field, the transponder becomes alive and sends a signal back. there is no easy way round the transponder type immobiliser, ECUs and BCMs talk to each other in signals mostly through 2 wires that send frequency signals to each other sometimes called BUS or CAN systems, Little bit like talking in code, Would be nice to know the fella that designed the code and learn what it is or even how to read it.

[royce]

oic, you mean the reciever, antenna is for radios

canbus is pretty well known, even aftermarket gauges are made now that run canbus

if tis 2 wires it might even be serial, easy once again once you know what it is

[Teracis]

This is a mass produced item yes? While they all have different keys and ignitions e.t.c. won't they all have something in common? as in there will be a common point where they are all sending the same signal down the same wires which causes the thing to work?

If someone could figure out what and where it'd be all good yes?

I could be wrong here as I'm generalising heaps, but it's not like every single car/engine has a different type of hardware is it (through the same model I mean), just the programming of certain things and therefore the signals fed in and out? For example, two of us have the same model jimny or whatever, from the same year, a month apart. Both have identical everything except keys, therefore there's a point somewhere after the key barrel that they share common parts and wiring and programming? Just need to find out what part needs what signal when?

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

oic, you mean the reciever, antenna is for radios

canbus is pretty well known, even aftermarket gauges are made now that run canbus

if tis 2 wires it might even be serial, easy once again once you know what it is

Its most likely that the fawkers use a rolling code system, just is bloody hard to sort out. Just like your garage doors openers etc.

[royce]

JrZook wrote:

royce wrote:

oic, you mean the reciever, antenna is for radios

canbus is pretty well known, even aftermarket gauges are made now that run canbus

if tis 2 wires it might even be serial, easy once again once you know what it is

Its most likely that the fawkers use a rolling code system, just is bloody hard to sort out. Just like your garage doors openers etc.

how does rfid roll its code? its just a dumb thing that wobbles a code near a magnet, hell you can even duplicate em easy enough http://www.dealextreme.com/p/125khz-rfi ... tion-17230

I reckon the ecu will have an input thats common to all cars to allow it to run, sent from whatever looks after talking to the tag in teh key, even if the ecu does the talking its not going to be hard to wire in, my old 1 litre sierra had an rfid immobiliser

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

JrZook wrote:

royce wrote:

oic, you mean the reciever, antenna is for radios

canbus is pretty well known, even aftermarket gauges are made now that run canbus

if tis 2 wires it might even be serial, easy once again once you know what it is

Its most likely that the fawkers use a rolling code system, just is bloody hard to sort out. Just like your garage doors openers etc.

how does rfid roll its code? its just a dumb thing that wobbles a code near a magnet, hell you can even duplicate em easy enough http://www.dealextreme.com/p/125khz-rfi ... tion-17230

I reckon the ecu will have an input thats common to all cars to allow it to run, sent from whatever looks after talking to the tag in teh key, even if the ecu does the talking its not going to be hard to wire in, my old 1 litre sierra had an rfid immobiliser

Well if it doesn't, then I could scan it and attempt to hack it. A simple single code/ID set seems wayyy to easy for the manufactures to do these days....... Better for us if it is sooo.

[royce]

remember in the manufacturers eyes, immobiliser is just something extra to stop scum starting the car with a large screwdriver, I doubt they expect anyone to be tapping a loom and shooting some code in to bypass it, be easier to tow the car

Are there diagrams around? at least it would be a start on trying to figure out where they are talking

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

remember in the manufacturers eyes, immobiliser is just something extra to stop scum starting the car with a large screwdriver, I doubt they expect anyone to be tapping a loom and shooting some code in to bypass it, be easier to tow the car

Are there diagrams around? at least it would be a start on trying to figure out where they are talking

Well ive got teh C.R.O so if someone has a vehicle with the wiring in reach i can have a scope.

[steak_knife]

JrZook wrote:

royce wrote:

remember in the manufacturers eyes, immobiliser is just something extra to stop scum starting the car with a large screwdriver, I doubt they expect anyone to be tapping a loom and shooting some code in to bypass it, be easier to tow the car

Are there diagrams around? at least it would be a start on trying to figure out where they are talking

Well ive got teh C.R.O so if someone has a vehicle with the wiring in reach i can have a scope.

I "may" be able to get my hand's on a SDT & tech2 for a week end to, just in case we erase the code while playing.....

[MrRocky]

battle of the tech heads

[steak_knife]

MrRocky wrote:

battle of the tech heads

has to be done, not all of us like datto eng's.....

the M18Vvt/M15Vvt are frigging awesome eng's, if we can crack this stupid code thingo, sierra's will have a light & powerful lil conversion to replace the vit/bal eng's....

[Rusho]

What would a jimny front cut be worth??

[steak_knife]

Rusho wrote:

What would a jimny front cut be worth??

Extra with the wobble.....

[royce]

ive got manuals

on a jimny (though my manual is g13bb) the immobiliser module talks to the key, if it agrees then it talks to the ecu, the ecu must then agree the immobiliser module is the one it knows about and not a new one and engine starts

immobiliser module is simple to wire in and the antenna is separate

on the swift the immobiliser module talks to the key again and the ecu, but also the bcm, though it looks like an afterthought and it might just be to make the imobiliser light on the dash go, still reading but the immobilser module is 1 piece witht he antenna and mounted to teh ignition barrell, perhaps somebody game might want to pull out the wires from it that talk to teh bcm and see what happens

The manual has waveforms on how it talks but not on the coding

got a Liana manual too, the guru says this is better but not looked yet

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

ive got manuals

on a jimny (though my manual is g13bb) the immobiliser module talks to the key, if it agrees then it talks to the ecu, the ecu must then agree the immobiliser module is the one it knows about and not a new one and engine starts

immobiliser module is simple to wire in and the antenna is separate

on the swift the immobiliser module talks to the key again and the ecu, but also the bcm, though it looks like an afterthought and it might just be to make the imobiliser light on the dash go, still reading but the immobilser module is 1 piece witht he antenna and mounted to teh ignition barrell, perhaps somebody game might want to pull out the wires from it that talk to teh bcm and see what happens

The manual has waveforms on how it talks but not on the coding

got a Liana manual too, the guru says this is better but not looked yet

Woooo send us a scan of the interesting bits

[royce]

[steak_knife]

royce wrote:

on the swift the immobiliser module talks to the key again and the ecu, but also the bcm, though it looks like an afterthought and it might just be to make the imobiliser light on the dash go, still reading but the immobilser module is 1 piece witht he antenna and mounted to teh ignition barrell, perhaps somebody game might want to pull out the wires from it that talk to teh bcm and see what happens

The manual has waveforms on how it talks but not on the coding

got a Liana manual too, the guru says this is better but not looked yet

Don't think so, cause if the bulb blow's it don't start......(from memory)

[Teracis]

If any of you lads down my way (gold coast) are trying to sort out one of these and I can help I will, the sooner somebody cracks this thing the better!

Also, if it can be done without all the extra crap then even better because surely we could score some cheaper engines that way?

[royce]

[Teracis]

I know it sounds silly, but wouldn't there be places/people who already know how the immobilisation system works on these engines? Given that they need to be repaired e.t.c.

Or is the problem that
a) None of those that know would tell any of us because it's a security issue?
b) It would cost too much to get them to give the time of day let alone the information needed?

Also, I had a quick look at some of that manual Royce, it makes the quest seem doable, but jeez it looks like you need a lot of stuff! Could it be done any easier by using the entire loom and immobiliser and ignition barrel stuff? I suppose there's no way to make them fit or someone would have by now?

[royce]

we know how it works, one bit talks to another bit and tells another bit its good to go, if a bit fails you bin it and stick another one in and use the suzuki tool to instruct them all to play nice together

the BCM is a problem, because its going to be hard to know whats going to need it

but the Liana doesnt have this dilema, plus the engine is bigger

though I am talking about fitting the engine, ECU, immobilser, chip in key. I dont think its worth the effort to bypass that part

[Teracis]

royce wrote:

we know how it works, one bit talks to another bit and tells another bit its good to go, if a bit fails you bin it and stick another one in and use the suzuki tool to instruct them all to play nice together

the BCM is a problem, because its going to be hard to know whats going to need it

but the Liana doesnt have this dilema, plus the engine is bigger

though I am talking about fitting the engine, ECU, immobilser, chip in key. I dont think its worth the effort to bypass that part

Ah, that's the part I thought we were trying to bypass!

It would be hard to replace the ignition barrel of a sierra with the one in this though right?

[royce]

nah not the barrel, just the immobilser, on a liana it bolts to and sits around the barrel, I reckon it would fit over a sierra barrel

plenty of other hurdles though, things like the vss being in teh gearbox

[steak_knife]

royce wrote:

nah not the barrel, just the immobilser, on a liana it bolts to and sits around the barrel, I reckon it would fit over a sierra barrel

plenty of other hurdles though, things like the vss being in teh gearbox

I used a relay & a flasher unit to trick the 4age comp into thinking it was doing around 5kph