[royce]

mr_ron wrote:

haha Im not arguing teh fact that its not legal Royce. And I am no way pretending to now more then Dot, as I said it just confuses me how they decide on there rullings and such.

I'm guessing its for safety and in my belief taht its ok for toyota to do it because as youve said they they've jumped through hoops and paid out big $$ but in my simpleton eyes, Its the same setup on a larger heavier car with more power and its deemed ok..

I was just curious as to which setup people have used and results they have found is all :S

deemed ok because its been tested to prove it complies with the various adr's applicable, this is something you or I and probably all of us combined couldnt afford to get done, so its easier for em to say no you cant do that because its too hard to be sure if the outcome is ok under the scope of approving mods

Same with bigger tyres, theres likely enough evidence here to say the a 31" tyre on a sierra still performs within the requirements but you still cant have em cause its too much work to prove

[mr_ron]

Thanks Boosted. I run 31's now with TSOR 2" extended shackles and saggy 2" springs and the only rubbing i get at full flex is where it rubs on my chasis. I was weighing up just buying new 2" efs springs as i hear they are the longest(?) and adding a 50mm BL

but after reading a few other posts I am curious as to the alternate methods..

how do you find the efs springs for softness on the road? and how do they go flexing?

Thanks for the constructive reply lol

[TryHard]

i find EFS springs are very stiff once u first get them but i have no change the pack yet .. and mine EFS Springs are working really well atm once they settle in

[boostedbrick]

AFAIK the EFS 2inch rear is the longest off the shelf spring available, but not sure about the fronts.. Mine is alot better these days on road. With all the leafs in the packs hitting a cats eye hurt my back. With 3 leafs all around, it was reasonable and now that they have sagged and softend up they are quite comfy(as far as comfy goes in a lifted zook). Decent shocks would help me here.

As for flex, the front here has another couple of inches in it.


Thats the back pretty much flexed out, works better with more weight in the back.(i usally have 100kg in the back when wheeling)

[mr_ron]

royce wrote:

mr_ron wrote:

haha Im not arguing teh fact that its not legal Royce. And I am no way pretending to now more then Dot, as I said it just confuses me how they decide on there rullings and such.

I'm guessing its for safety and in my belief taht its ok for toyota to do it because as youve said they they've jumped through hoops and paid out big $$ but in my simpleton eyes, Its the same setup on a larger heavier car with more power and its deemed ok..

I was just curious as to which setup people have used and results they have found is all :S

deemed ok because its been tested to prove it complies with the various adr's applicable, this is something you or I and probably all of us combined couldnt afford to get done, so its easier for em to say no you cant do that because its too hard to be sure if the outcome is ok under the scope of approving mods

Same with bigger tyres, theres likely enough evidence here to say the a 31" tyre on a sierra still performs within the requirements but you still cant have em cause its too much work to prove

Yep I'm on the same thought pattern.

And thanks 'Tryhard, I expect stiffness at first but ive heard that some soften more then others. Is it also true that a 2" spring will normally only sit at the 1.5" raised mark after settling?

[TryHard]

mr_ron wrote:

royce wrote:

mr_ron wrote:

haha Im not arguing teh fact that its not legal Royce. And I am no way pretending to now more then Dot, as I said it just confuses me how they decide on there rullings and such.

I'm guessing its for safety and in my belief taht its ok for toyota to do it because as youve said they they've jumped through hoops and paid out big $$ but in my simpleton eyes, Its the same setup on a larger heavier car with more power and its deemed ok..

I was just curious as to which setup people have used and results they have found is all :S

deemed ok because its been tested to prove it complies with the various adr's applicable, this is something you or I and probably all of us combined couldnt afford to get done, so its easier for em to say no you cant do that because its too hard to be sure if the outcome is ok under the scope of approving mods

Same with bigger tyres, theres likely enough evidence here to say the a 31" tyre on a sierra still performs within the requirements but you still cant have em cause its too much work to prove

Yep I'm on the same thought pattern.

And thanks 'Tryhard, I expect stiffness at first but ive heard that some soften more then others. Is it also true that a 2" spring will normally only sit at the 1.5" raised mark after settling?

yes that would be about right most springs are 50 mil and they sag to 1.5 EFF springs are 65 mil so i would imagine it would be a True 2 inch lift once sagged .. i could be wrong haha

[mr_ron]

Oh thanks heaps for the pics Boosted.. SO you have the efs 2", Extended shackels and a body lift? not to mention some sweet ass bar work lol

[JrZook]

mr_ron wrote:

Thanks Boosted. I run 31's now with TSOR 2" extended shackles and saggy 2" springs and the only rubbing i get at full flex is where it rubs on my chasis. I was weighing up just buying new 2" efs springs as i hear they are the longest(?) and adding a 50mm BL

but after reading a few other posts I am curious as to the alternate methods..

how do you find the efs springs for softness on the road? and how do they go flexing?

Thanks for the constructive reply lol

Mr Ron do you run any sort of bumpstop extension at all?

[BlueSuzy]

atari4x4 wrote:

royce wrote:

alien wrote:

you can do it anywhere in australia,

Bullshit, exact line in QLD mod book is modifications involving mounting the axle under the leaf springs will not be considered

Same story in SA "Relocating a leaf spring on the opposite side of an axle to that of the vehicle manufacturer"

Thats an isuzu piazza! S.A needs to update!

[mr_ron]

I don't run extended bump stops yet mainly because I only have 2 inches of shock travel and decreasing that anymore would Make the zook a horridly uncomfortable dd lol

[TryHard]

mr_ron wrote:

I don't run extended bump stops yet mainly because I only have 2 inches of shock travel and decreasing that anymore would Make the zook a horridly uncomfortable dd lol

its a zook no such thing as comfort u can take comfort that the Patrols and toyotas are still trying to make it up the hil

[mr_ron]

Lol hey I've owned a gq and it was quite capable :p however the zook owns haha. And I mean as much comfort as a lol zook can have :p as little as it may be hehe

[Gwagensteve]

I'll add a couple of points here.

I've set up countless cars RUF and play with suspension a lot.

mr_ron - you must have very stiff springs. 31's should rub all over the shop on the front with no body lift or trimming. If you changed to more flexible springs, regardless of lift height, you'd have plenty of rubbing. That's why someone asked if you had bumpstop extensions, because you should have plenty of rubbing.

The obsession with lift height is based on the faulty premise that lift height effects the tyre size you can run. Body lift, guard chopping and bumpstop spacers are the only ways to fit a larger tyre. Suspension lift increases compression travel at the expense of droop travel. That's OK for running at high speed, and it's OK for compensating for the effect of bumpstop spacing, but it's not the suspension lift that's helping the tyre to fit.

1/2 RUF is called 1/2 RUF because it doesn't move the axle forward or change the cars point of balance, so you only get 1/2 the advantage.

Im' not sure 1/2 RUF can really be done without welding. Whilst the springs can go on without welding, Ideally, the shock mounts require extending to fit a long enough shock. Yes, playing with bumpstop spacing might allow some sort of compromise to be reached, but it's a compromise and will mostly involve using a poor choice of shock absorber.

Longer shackles are a consequence of playing with spring lengths. They are not a valid way of adding suspension lift. They add a tiny bit of suspension travel at the expense of lost caster and steering response in the front. Shackles are last element of the suspension to be resolved and normally don't need to exceed 100mm in length - 25mm over stock- to provide full spring travel with RUF, but their length is a product of the spring setup. 2" over stock is too long for most applications in my opinion.

The legality of SPOA is one thing, but that doesn't have anything to do with its performance, which is average. Very few people who have built or owned a SPOA car ever build or own another one. It CAN work, but it's a poor value modification because it's so much money effort to get it right, and once it's sorted the advantage over a SPUA car is actually pretty small. It doesn't allow a bigger tyre, or allow more wheel travel over a well built SPUA car... so what's the advantage?

Steve.

[shep]

Gwagensteve wrote:

The obsession with lift height is based on the faulty premise that lift height effects the tyre size you can run. Body lift, guard chopping and bumpstop spacers are the only ways to fit a larger tyre. Suspension lift increases compression travel at the expense of droop travel. That's OK for running at high speed, and it's OK for compensating for the effect of bumpstop spacing, but it's not the suspension lift that's helping the tyre to fit.

Steve.

not this crap again.

[Gwagensteve]

Prove me wrong

[shep]

[SuziBlu]

Steve,

One thing of suspension lifts, and SPOA compared to body lifts and guard chopping, getting hung up.

I like the idea of not getting hung up, which I do seem to do far too often, an that was in the short wheel base, now she is retired and being used as a bit of a donor for the LWB.

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

[Fatzook]

SuziBlu wrote:

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

I'm not I like to have an embarrassingly low sierra with large tyres, FA uptravel and good weight and suspension balance. Sierra axles help keep ground clearance up, and a flat belly is also desirable.

I'm making my belly plate from that waxy plastic cutting board material, so I can slide over anything

[SuziBlu]

For my driving, razor backs, so much fun, so hard as they can be deceptively sharp.

Some go somewhat flat then straight down, some extreme ones are near razors on both sides, they are the most fun and challenging, in blindingly bright sun, the extremes are quite discernible, but not all. An its embarrassing to have to get out n dig out the belly of the beast while all 4 wheels are in mid air, even if there is no-one around to see.

There is always wind up top of the sandhills, and no matter how you position yourself, if you have to dig out, you are going to cop a ton of sand in your mouth and eyes. The further the chassis is off the deck, the better for my style of play.

I understand that this is not always the case, in extreme rocks say, gravity plays a very different roll to where I play, and so, yea, lower is better, with a good skid pan.

[Fatzook]

SuziBlu wrote:

For my driving, razor backs, so much fun, so hard as they can be deceptively sharp.

Some go somewhat flat then straight down, some extreme ones are near razors on both sides, they are the most fun and challenging, in blindingly bright sun, the extremes are quite discernible, but not all. An its embarrassing to have to get out n dig out the belly of the beast while all 4 wheels are in mid air, even if there is no-one around to see.

There is always wind up top of the sandhills, and no matter how you position yourself, if you have to dig out, you are going to cop a ton of sand in your mouth and eyes. The further the chassis is off the deck, the better for my style of play.

I understand that this is not always the case, in extreme rocks say, gravity plays a very different roll to where I play, and so, yea, lower is better, with a good skid pan.

Well we don't have any decent dunes in QLD. AFAIK Stockton is the closest place like that

[SuziBlu]

I would give up without sand, fair dinkum. I have seen some of the shit Jas does, an it makes me wonder at the mentality that does that sort of scary shit.

I have only seen stockton from the sea, and tho it looks, and is a long beach, the hills do not appear to be that big, on the navigational charts we use, they are stated as being only like about 50m high.

I would like to take my lil toy up to where you mob play and have a go, but between now and if it happens, there is a lot of build to happen.

So far I have a few things for the time, WT diffs, 5.12 ratios, Power Steering, rear springs for if I go RUF instead of YJs.

I am considering doing a 1.3l build, have a spare, and a good rebuild, ported, polished, CCd and with a good cam seems, from what I have read, a really good thing, but, still carby, an you mob have me 99% convinced, G16B is the ducks guts.

[shep]

Fatzook wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

I'm not I like to have an embarrassingly low sierra with large tyres, FA uptravel and good weight and suspension balance. Sierra axles help keep ground clearance up, and a flat belly is also desirable.

I'm making my belly plate from that waxy plastic cutting board material, so I can slide over anything

it is the blanket statement
Body lift, guard chopping and bumpstop spacers are the only ways to fit a larger tyre

that i find a bit silly.

[SuziBlu]

Me on the side of a small razorback, going hard, or end up rolling, gravity holding you in.

[Fatzook]

shep wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

I'm not I like to have an embarrassingly low sierra with large tyres, FA uptravel and good weight and suspension balance. Sierra axles help keep ground clearance up, and a flat belly is also desirable.

I'm making my belly plate from that waxy plastic cutting board material, so I can slide over anything

it is the blanket statement
Body lift, guard chopping and bumpstop spacers are the only ways to fit a larger tyre

that i find a bit silly.

Yeah I guess thats just one of many successful recipes that could be used depending on the terrain you most regularly drive.

I think for an allrounds you would need a sensible mix between ass draggingly low and monster truck status, with all the bumpstop shit considered aswell.

[shep]

Fatzook wrote:

shep wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

I'm not I like to have an embarrassingly low sierra with large tyres, FA uptravel and good weight and suspension balance. Sierra axles help keep ground clearance up, and a flat belly is also desirable.

I'm making my belly plate from that waxy plastic cutting board material, so I can slide over anything

it is the blanket statement
Body lift, guard chopping and bumpstop spacers are the only ways to fit a larger tyre

that i find a bit silly.

Yeah I guess thats just one of many successful recipes that could be used depending on the terrain you most regularly drive.

I think for an allrounds you would need a sensible mix between ass draggingly low and monster truck status, with all the bumpstop shit considered aswell.

exactly. i reckon mine works well up here for what i do with it
and i would hate to drive something with no up travel, actually i reckon
the first hint of corrugations and it would end up stuck to a tree.
give me nice soft long travel suspension any day

[SuziBlu]

shep wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

shep wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

I'm not I like to have an embarrassingly low sierra with large tyres, FA uptravel and good weight and suspension balance. Sierra axles help keep ground clearance up, and a flat belly is also desirable.

I'm making my belly plate from that waxy plastic cutting board material, so I can slide over anything

it is the blanket statement
Body lift, guard chopping and bumpstop spacers are the only ways to fit a larger tyre

that i find a bit silly.

Yeah I guess thats just one of many successful recipes that could be used depending on the terrain you most regularly drive.

I think for an allrounds you would need a sensible mix between ass draggingly low and monster truck status, with all the bumpstop shit considered aswell.

exactly. i reckon mine works well up here for what i do with it
and i would hate to drive something with no up travel, actually i reckon
the first hint of corrugations and it would end up stuck to a tree.
give me nice soft long travel suspension any day

X2, imo long travel is the only way to fly.

[Fatzook]

shep wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

shep wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

I'm not I like to have an embarrassingly low sierra with large tyres, FA uptravel and good weight and suspension balance. Sierra axles help keep ground clearance up, and a flat belly is also desirable.

I'm making my belly plate from that waxy plastic cutting board material, so I can slide over anything

it is the blanket statement
Body lift, guard chopping and bumpstop spacers are the only ways to fit a larger tyre

that i find a bit silly.

Yeah I guess thats just one of many successful recipes that could be used depending on the terrain you most regularly drive.

I think for an allrounds you would need a sensible mix between ass draggingly low and monster truck status, with all the bumpstop shit considered aswell.

exactly. i reckon mine works well up here for what i do with it
and i would hate to drive something with no up travel, actually i reckon
the first hint of corrugations and it would end up stuck to a tree.
give me nice soft long travel suspension any day

Yeah but coilovers afford me some extra tunability that shock/leaf does not. So small bump clearance and well set up coil rates/ bump/ rebound will make corrugations a dream

[shep]

Fatzook wrote:

shep wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

shep wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

I'm not I like to have an embarrassingly low sierra with large tyres, FA uptravel and good weight and suspension balance. Sierra axles help keep ground clearance up, and a flat belly is also desirable.

I'm making my belly plate from that waxy plastic cutting board material, so I can slide over anything

it is the blanket statement
Body lift, guard chopping and bumpstop spacers are the only ways to fit a larger tyre

that i find a bit silly.

Yeah I guess thats just one of many successful recipes that could be used depending on the terrain you most regularly drive.

I think for an allrounds you would need a sensible mix between ass draggingly low and monster truck status, with all the bumpstop shit considered aswell.

exactly. i reckon mine works well up here for what i do with it
and i would hate to drive something with no up travel, actually i reckon
the first hint of corrugations and it would end up stuck to a tree.
give me nice soft long travel suspension any day

Yeah but coilovers afford me some extra tunability that shock/leaf does not. So small bump clearance and well set up coil rates/ bump/ rebound will make corrugations a dream

yes, not arguing with ya.
however according to steve that would still be wrong as the only way, according to him, to fit bigger tyres
is no lift, guard chopping and bumpstops. no other methods work. including coil overs.

[SuziBlu]

Here we have the old argument, no-one is right, no-one is wrong, we all build our cars to suit our own driving style, places. Some of the vehicles I see here are wonderfully thought out and made, and would be quite useless in sand, I built my car for sand, and recon as on big rocks and some of the stuff I see you guys play in places like around the glass house mountains, it would be no good.

I have seen Jasons toy, well made, directly designed for where he plays, and yet it still falls over, what chance would my toy have, nun.

It boils down to, no such thing as an perfect all rounder.

I do agree to state blankety, ONLY ONE WAY TO FIT BIGGER TYRES, is wrong.

Fats, have you seen some of the corrugations that Shep is talking of, road train made ?, some big enuf to near swallow a lil zook.

[Red89]

Fatzook wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I am a tall suspension man, for reasons of ground clearance.

I'm not I like to have an embarrassingly low sierra with large tyres, FA uptravel and good weight and suspension balance. Sierra axles help keep ground clearance up, and a flat belly is also desirable.

I'm making my belly plate from that waxy plastic cutting board material, so I can slide over anything

I have thought of doing that too, any idea what thickness you will be using ?

Mine sits lowish, with a raised TC and longer WB and I never had a problem with it bellying out, it was more the rear spring hangers mine always got caught on.