[Damo]

Is it OK to just back off the pinion nut, remove the flange and replace the seal? Or once you do that does the crush sleeve need to be replaced?

[royce]

I dont think so cause the bearings are probably stuffed too but plenty of people have put the but back in the same palce (counted turns) and its been fine

[Damo]

royce wrote:

I dont think so cause the bearings are probably stuffed too but plenty of people have put the but back in the same palce (counted turns) and its been fine

I've just been reading the manual it looks like it's pretty involved replacing the bearings. Shims, backlash, pinion depth etc etc. It's certainly not a matter of whack in some bearings and go.

[Scrawny]

Ideally the crush tube should be replaced and the nut done up to the correct torque but you can get away with just whacking it back together

[Damo]

Scrawn wrote:

Ideally the crush tube should be replaced and the nut done up to the correct torque but you can get away with just whacking it back together

OK, so if I eyeball the bearings and look decent and put it back together with a new crush sleeve that will be OK yeah?

I'd rather not just dodge it back together

[SuziBlu]

My mate is a mechanic, and he tells me, if you want to do a diff, send it to a diff specialist.

IMO he is a very good mechanic, and if he says that, well, its off to the diff specialist for me when diff work is required.

Will be sending mine away to get rebuilt and have the 5.12s installed. The only thing i will do is clean them. Well take em out n bung em back in of course.

[Scrawny]

Damo wrote:

Scrawn wrote:

Ideally the crush tube should be replaced and the nut done up to the correct torque but you can get away with just whacking it back together

OK, so if I eyeball the bearings and look decent and put it back together with a new crush sleeve that will be OK yeah?

I'd rather not just dodge it back together

The bearing is a press fit on the pinion shaft so you'll need a puller to get it out to replace the crush tube. Do you have the torque setting?

[Scrawny]

SuziBlu wrote:

My mate is a mechanic, and he tells me, if you want to do a diff, send it to a diff specialist.

IMO he is a very good mechanic, and if he says that, well, its off to the diff specialist for me when diff work is required.

This is always my opinion too.

[Damo]

Scrawn wrote:

Damo wrote:

Scrawn wrote:

Ideally the crush tube should be replaced and the nut done up to the correct torque but you can get away with just whacking it back together

OK, so if I eyeball the bearings and look decent and put it back together with a new crush sleeve that will be OK yeah?

I'd rather not just dodge it back together

The bearing is a press fit on the pinion shaft so you'll need a puller to get it out to replace the crush tube. Do you have the torque setting?

I've got a puller. Can't find the torque setting though.

[Scrawny]

Not sure about Sierra diffs but 100 series have a Toyota only puller due to the recessed bearing (read: a bastard to get onto and get out!). Doesn't the service manual tell you what the setting should be? Do you have fish scales?

[Damo]

Scrawn wrote:

Not sure about Sierra diffs but 100 series have a Toyota only puller due to the recessed bearing (read: a bastard to get onto and get out!). Doesn't the service manual tell you what the setting should be? Do you have fish scales?

I'm guessing the Sierra diff is going to be equally as difficult. I do have a spare buggered diff centre, I might crack that open and see if i'll be able to get my puller onto the bearing.

I can't find the torque setting in the manual, it has to be there somewhere though surely. I seem to remember someone saying somewhere in the region of 200lb/ft to crush the spacer down???

I don't have fish scales either. Might have to go to BCF

[JrZook]

Damo wrote:

Scrawn wrote:

Ideally the crush tube should be replaced and the nut done up to the correct torque but you can get away with just whacking it back together

OK, so if I eyeball the bearings and look decent and put it back together with a new crush sleeve that will be OK yeah?

I'd rather not just dodge it back together

Lol then run some dye on teh gears and check the contact pattern as well

[Gwagensteve]

Suzuki list the seals you can change without disassembly - and a pinion seal isn't one of them.

The guys that think you can count the turns and whack it back together must have access to lots of cheap diffs because it doesn't last - once the preload is off spec the bearings go out fast

They are often the same people who think you can do wheel bearings by feel, then complain that their bearings are always loose.

Steve.

[royce]

pinion bearing comes off in a press easy enough

I dont know that you need to reset the pinion height for a pinion bearing change, I think that only applies to a new gearset in the carrier

[royce]

Gwagensteve wrote:

The guys that think you can count the turns and whack it back together must have access to lots of cheap diffs because it doesn't last - once the preload is off spec the bearings go out fast

Steve.

Whilst I agree its not how it should be done, if the nut goes back in the same spot and the flange back on the same way, the seal obviously plays no part in preload, how can it change it?

[Gwagensteve]

The short answer is ask suzuki.

You know the SEAL has no effect on preload. Preload between the two bearings is controlled by the crush sleeve, which is a one shot deal. cranking the nut up to the same place it was in before you pulled it apart is meaningless. Preload is now different than it was before you pulled it apart, because when it was assembled the yield of the crush sleeve was what set the preload.

It's now crushed, so it can no longer offer the same preload if you refit the nut by counting turns.

It might be possible to re-use the crush sleeve (although I doubt it, or it would be called a spacer and not a crush sleeve) If you set torque and drag as per suzuki's instructions.... but by the time you're going to that much effort why not just throw a new crush sleeve in it like Suzuki recommend?

Steve.

[Scrawny]

In my perfect world I would ship the centre of to a specialist and have it returned in a pretty plastic bag with the anti rust stuff pasted all over it, but when time restraints dictate on a remote site you just do what you have to do. I never saw any issues arise

[royce]

preload is set by the force applied between the bearings and the outer race, the crush tube plays no part!

otherwise how do wheel bearing have preload with nothing between them?

[Gwagensteve]

So the crush sleeve does what Royce? Nothing?

[royce]

Nah get stuffed you arent goading me into an argument when your statement was wrong, tell me how the crush sleeve applies force to push the bearings into the outer races when its between them

The crush sleeve is there to aid setting the preload, it might also apply some resistive force to teh whole thing to keep tension on the whole bearing - flange - nut, otherwise the nut would be loose to set like a wheel bearing and difficult to get right

[Gwagensteve]

royce wrote:

The crush sleeve is there to aid setting the preload, it might also apply some resistive force to teh whole thing to keep tension on the whole bearing -

And there you go. That's exactly my point- If it's already crushed, and the nut is replaced to the same position as before, it can't apply as much resistive force, nor can it aid in setting the preload (because you aren't even checking preload if you just pull the nut and seal and whack it back in), and so the bearings are looser and they don't last as well. A pinion seal replacement done without proper setup doesn't last.


Steve.

[royce]

Yeah but your point is wrong

With the nut in position X the distance between it and the shoulder up the other end of the pinion that the bearing is pressed against is always going to measure the same regardless of how many times you unscrew it.

The thickness of the flange, both the bearings and the tube are all also the same and wont change when you undo the nut, so if no single part has changed its size how does the bearing preload change?

If the nut doesnt go back on as far, less preload which is bad, if it goes back on too far, too much preload which is bad and also a crushed tube you cant use anymore which is also bad but I fail to see where its going to cause problems otherwise.

[Damo]

Sorry if i'm interrupting your sandy vag fight Royce

Is the pinion supposed to be really hard to get out of the carrier? It says nothing about that bit in the manual and the (rooted) diff I have here is not playing ball. Granted it has a seized pinion bearing so I think that's where my problem is coming from. This one has a date with the press I think.

But just to confirm, the pinion should come out pretty easy, right?

[royce]

nah, the outer bearing holds it in which is a tight fit onto teh pinion

when I pulled apart my previously good diff I had to flog the crap out of it with a big hammer to get it out, destroyed the nut in the process (didnt matter)

[Damo]

royce wrote:

nah, the outer bearing holds it in which is a tight fit onto teh pinion

when I pulled apart my previously good diff I had to flog the crap out of it with a big hammer to get it out, destroyed the nut in the process (didnt matter)

Oh.

Hopefully Hybrid can let me use his press this weekend. Otherwise I may need a bigger hammer.

[Buddies72]

Damo wrote:

But just to confirm, the pinion should come out pretty easy, right?

In the diff I just rebuilt the pinion was nowhere easy to get out. It took a brass drift and a 4 pound hammer to get the flange side pinion bearing off the pinion.

I'm happy to run through the rebuild with you tomorrow night if you like. Dspending on if you trust me after my efforts with the hilux last time around.

[xedent]

royce wrote:

Yeah but your point is wrong

With the nut in position X the distance between it and the shoulder up the other end of the pinion that the bearing is pressed against is always going to measure the same regardless of how many times you unscrew it.

The thickness of the flange, both the bearings and the tube are all also the same and wont change when you undo the nut, so if no single part has changed its size how does the bearing preload change?

If the nut doesnt go back on as far, less preload which is bad, if it goes back on too far, too much preload which is bad and also a crushed tube you cant use anymore which is also bad but I fail to see where its going to cause problems otherwise.

I went through all this a little while ago, this is exactly my point, if nothing has changed when its undone how does doing it back up in exact same position change anything.

[Damo]

Buddies72 wrote:

Damo wrote:

But just to confirm, the pinion should come out pretty easy, right?

In the diff I just rebuilt the pinion was nowhere easy to get out. It took a brass drift and a 4 pound hammer to get the flange side pinion bearing off the pinion.

I'm happy to run through the rebuild with you tomorrow night if you like. Dspending on if you trust me after my efforts with the hilux last time around.

Yeah i'd would like to have a chat about it with you. I was hoping it would be a one night job but it's turning out to be a bit of a bigger job than I expected.