[dank]

It's a shame. I think that the small 4x4 market is under rated by manufacturers and dealers alike. Just look at the influx of jimny's on this site over the last couple years. Imagine if they actually built something decent . kinda smaller but just as strong as a TJ in terms of drive line. Could run 33s stock with a driveline that could cope.

[BertZook]

yeah but that only would be appealing for us, and although we seem to be a large number of ppl we re actually a tinny fraction of the whole market..... that's always the case with 4wds......

also, just give the chance they release a "real" "bush proof 4wd"... not everyone here or 4wd nut, would buy it either.... may be becose they already have a 4wby, not enugh money, or the car its jsut not "their stile" or what eva..... everyone here love the LWB sierras.... but if they release the marutis for road "legal" only a small porcent of this site would go and actually buy one

car manufacturers re not longer interested in produce "real" 4wds... because the market research number shows that only x% of ppl actually use them for real offroad, hence why now re more "soft"... they build them tough before, make their name, and now they just live out of that shadow.... as long as the car has a "4wd" button and can go on a dirt road with no dramas their re happy, bcose they know thats wht ppl actually re gonna use them

just look at the new patrool.... one of the toughest 4wd just died jsut make the trasition of "soft"


to make u a better example, in my country they sold the GV.... NO-ONE use them as a 4wd... maybe one or two.... I NEVER saw a GV with mods like I see in this forum..... Its jsut our culture that a "4wd" is "this" or "that" model of car..... my friends re still amazed when I tell them about this forum and alll of your GV and Jimnys


suzuki just need to get a new generation of jimnys, bit bigger and with a bigger engine.... jsut hope they still stay with live front axle

[TryHard]

Bert i dont think i could have put it better my self

[Kennel]

BertZook wrote:

suzuki just need to get a new generation of jimnys, bit bigger and with a bigger engine.... jsut hope they still stay with live front axle

Sounds like a Vitara... I tend to disagree, only on the size thing. The deciding factor for me was the Jimny being the smallest, capable 4wd I could find.

I do get a smile from the ones who bag the Jimny, yet massively modify a Sierra. And lets not forget, most of the mods you guys do here are illegal here in WA. 50mm total ride height change, which includes tyres, is the limit.

I think the message is pretty clear from the legislators and regulators. They do not want off road vehicles on the road. And I agree with them.

[TryHard]

Kennel wrote:

BertZook wrote:

suzuki just need to get a new generation of jimnys, bit bigger and with a bigger engine.... jsut hope they still stay with live front axle

Sounds like a Vitara... I tend to disagree, only on the size thing. The deciding factor for me was the Jimny being the smallest, capable 4wd I could find.

I do get a smile from the ones who bag the Jimny, yet massively modify a Sierra. And lets not forget, most of the mods you guys do here are illegal here in WA. 50mm total ride height change, which includes tyres, is the limit.

I think the message is pretty clear from the legislators and regulators. They do not want off road vehicles on the road. And I agree with them.

how can u Agree with them ...

[Kennel]

I am referring to the dangerously modified vehicles you see on the road. Not just the 4WD's, but the boy racers. And for that matter, even the unmaintained mum & dad machine.

The roads are dangerous enough with inattentive, inexperienced, angry, late, tired, sick, drunk, sun in their eyes drivers. We have all been there.

But modifying a vehicle to go off road to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road means it doesn't belong there.

People often exceed the capabilities of themselves and their vehicles. That may result in a near miss, it may not. ESP is touted as extending the capability of the vehicle. Odds are that the gap will be filled by drivers pushing even harder, it tends to work out that way...

Back to the ESP question. Victoria has decided ESP will make their roads safer. It is illogical to make this change without addressing the road worthiness of the current fleet, but hey, its probably more political anyway.

Got to be seen to be doing "something".

[shep]

Kennel wrote:

I am referring to the dangerously modified vehicles you see on the road. Not just the 4WD's, but the boy racers. And for that matter, even the unmaintained mum & dad machine.

The roads are dangerous enough with inattentive, inexperienced, angry, late, tired, sick, drunk, sun in their eyes drivers. We have all been there.

But modifying a vehicle to go off road to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road means it doesn't belong there.

People often exceed the capabilities of themselves and their vehicles. That may result in a near miss, it may not. ESP is touted as extending the capability of the vehicle. Odds are that the gap will be filled by drivers pushing even harder, it tends to work out that way...

Back to the ESP question. Victoria has decided ESP will make their roads safer. It is illogical to make this change without addressing the road worthiness of the current fleet, but hey, its probably more political anyway.

Got to be seen to be doing "something".

fuck off back to reality hippy
4wds are not a "lifestyle" choice for everybody.

[TryHard]

shep wrote:

Kennel wrote:

I am referring to the dangerously modified vehicles you see on the road. Not just the 4WD's, but the boy racers. And for that matter, even the unmaintained mum & dad machine.

The roads are dangerous enough with inattentive, inexperienced, angry, late, tired, sick, drunk, sun in their eyes drivers. We have all been there.

But modifying a vehicle to go off road to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road means it doesn't belong there.

People often exceed the capabilities of themselves and their vehicles. That may result in a near miss, it may not. ESP is touted as extending the capability of the vehicle. Odds are that the gap will be filled by drivers pushing even harder, it tends to work out that way...

Back to the ESP question. Victoria has decided ESP will make their roads safer. It is illogical to make this change without addressing the road worthiness of the current fleet, but hey, its probably more political anyway.

Got to be seen to be doing "something".

fuck off back to reality hippy
4wds are not a "lifestyle" choice for everybody.

thanks Shep i didnt want to be rude

[BertZook]

yeah I agree that there re some ppl that re just when mod their 4wbys.... but at the same time there re tons of other ppl than they do "good" mods and re still "illegal" ....

that grey area of wht is good and whts redneck is too grey to find a sweet spot, affecting all of us... just bcose a few politicians sit down in a chair driving executive cars "think" that we re a "danger" for the road, doesnt mean we actually ARE ..... most of our mods re aftermarket products desing to atack harder conditions, to last longer, to be safer, ect ect... most of cases is to make the car better

the problem is when they "analyze" car accidents, they have to find an "excuse" for it all the time..... dnt know how many % actually involved mod 4wbys, and out of those wht is the real % of being those mods the cause for the accident either.... but one thing is for sure, we pop out of the pile!!!..... 1453413 car crash... all good..... 1 mod 4wby crash, and they just go AAAAHAAAAAM!!!! THERE IS THE CAUSE FOR IT....IT HAS TO BE< I MEAN LOOK AT THAT CAR!!!!!.....the end result is that we all get affected for it

same with the fucking "L" or "P" plates.... (sorry but for me is the most stupid idea ever)... the only thing that they work if for other ppl notice them and say "fuckin P platers"...... farckign tons of ppl drive like shit, but its becose that ONE "P" or "L" that makes u notice it and say "All P platers drive like shit"


and honestly for me its more dangerous a farcking "wicked van" or one of those hundreds of "500$ shitbox cars" than my jimny with 80mm and 30" tyres

[royce]

Kennel wrote:

I am referring to the dangerously modified vehicles you see on the road. Not just the 4WD's, but the boy racers. And for that matter, even the unmaintained mum & dad machine.

The roads are dangerous enough with inattentive, inexperienced, angry, late, tired, sick, drunk, sun in their eyes drivers. We have all been there.

But modifying a vehicle to go off road to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road means it doesn't belong there.

People often exceed the capabilities of themselves and their vehicles. That may result in a near miss, it may not. ESP is touted as extending the capability of the vehicle. Odds are that the gap will be filled by drivers pushing even harder, it tends to work out that way...

Back to the ESP question. Victoria has decided ESP will make their roads safer. It is illogical to make this change without addressing the road worthiness of the current fleet, but hey, its probably more political anyway.

Got to be seen to be doing "something".

x2

[shep]

royce wrote:

Kennel wrote:

I am referring to the dangerously modified vehicles you see on the road. Not just the 4WD's, but the boy racers. And for that matter, even the unmaintained mum & dad machine.

The roads are dangerous enough with inattentive, inexperienced, angry, late, tired, sick, drunk, sun in their eyes drivers. We have all been there.

But modifying a vehicle to go off road to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road means it doesn't belong there.

People often exceed the capabilities of themselves and their vehicles. That may result in a near miss, it may not. ESP is touted as extending the capability of the vehicle. Odds are that the gap will be filled by drivers pushing even harder, it tends to work out that way...

Back to the ESP question. Victoria has decided ESP will make their roads safer. It is illogical to make this change without addressing the road worthiness of the current fleet, but hey, its probably more political anyway.

Got to be seen to be doing "something".

x2

then you are a hippy as well.

the car isn't the problem it is the way they are driven if people are not
willing to drive to the conditions and their/the cars abilities then a crash is inevitable.

cars dont kill people, stupid fuckwits kill people.

[Kennel]

shep wrote:

fuck off back to reality hippy
4wds are not a "lifestyle" choice for everybody.

Hey hey, its all good, peace man. Enough stereotypes for me to be pigeon holed yet? (you even get a green smilie) your world and mine are the same...

My point is clearly "dangerously" modified or unroadworthy vehicles don't belong on the road.

A separate debate is what constitutes that. Is an non ESP vehicle dangerous, well, all vehicles are dangerous. Is it unroadworthy? Some roads are uncarworthy, hence the need to modify a vehicle. Again, a separate debate...

Being a responsible road user covers how, what and where you drive. Being aware of your environment, which includes yours and other vehicles capabilities.

And just so you know, sure I live in a city now, but for 30 years I lived in rural and remote parts of WA. I know what adverse conditions exist out there, neglect of essential infrastructure is a perennial shame.

[royce]

shep wrote:

royce wrote:

Kennel wrote:

I am referring to the dangerously modified vehicles you see on the road. Not just the 4WD's, but the boy racers. And for that matter, even the unmaintained mum & dad machine.

The roads are dangerous enough with inattentive, inexperienced, angry, late, tired, sick, drunk, sun in their eyes drivers. We have all been there.

But modifying a vehicle to go off road to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road means it doesn't belong there.

People often exceed the capabilities of themselves and their vehicles. That may result in a near miss, it may not. ESP is touted as extending the capability of the vehicle. Odds are that the gap will be filled by drivers pushing even harder, it tends to work out that way...

Back to the ESP question. Victoria has decided ESP will make their roads safer. It is illogical to make this change without addressing the road worthiness of the current fleet, but hey, its probably more political anyway.

Got to be seen to be doing "something".

x2

then you are a hippy as well.

the car isn't the problem it is the way they are driven if people are not
willing to drive to the conditions and their/the cars abilities then a crash is inevitable.

cars dont kill people, stupid fuckwits kill people.

Stupid fuckwits that build dangerous heaps of shit also kill people

Simple examples, which might not come to mind for you due to population differences

4wd, no mudflaps, flicks up rock into the sky, goes through screen on following car, resultant chaos causes prang

ricer, too dark a window tint, doesnt see guy on scooter in city traffic and changes lanes into them

Aunty Dots Corolla, does 1000km per year so it never gets serviced (cant afford it anyway) eventually the wheel cylinder dry out and leak, runs out of fluid and BANG, through a school crossing

I think all you one eyed lot missed the qualification of modified to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road, it doesnt say that once they are modified they arent suitable for the road

[SuziBlu]

shep wrote:

royce wrote:

Kennel wrote:

I am referring to the dangerously modified vehicles you see on the road. Not just the 4WD's, but the boy racers. And for that matter, even the unmaintained mum & dad machine.

The roads are dangerous enough with inattentive, inexperienced, angry, late, tired, sick, drunk, sun in their eyes drivers. We have all been there.

But modifying a vehicle to go off road to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road means it doesn't belong there.

People often exceed the capabilities of themselves and their vehicles. That may result in a near miss, it may not. ESP is touted as extending the capability of the vehicle. Odds are that the gap will be filled by drivers pushing even harder, it tends to work out that way...

Back to the ESP question. Victoria has decided ESP will make their roads safer. It is illogical to make this change without addressing the road worthiness of the current fleet, but hey, its probably more political anyway.

Got to be seen to be doing "something".

x2

then you are a hippy as well.

the car isn't the problem it is the way they are driven if people are not
willing to drive to the conditions and their/the cars abilities then a crash is inevitable.

cars dont kill people, stupid fuckwits kill people.

I saw a pic not long ago, shoe lase thing, owned apparently by someone with enuf nouse to teach people stuff, but not smart enuf to get car fixed.

People kill.

The nut that holds the steering wheel, is the most dangerous thing on/in a car.

[TryHard]

SuziBlu wrote:

shep wrote:

royce wrote:

Kennel wrote:

I am referring to the dangerously modified vehicles you see on the road. Not just the 4WD's, but the boy racers. And for that matter, even the unmaintained mum & dad machine.

The roads are dangerous enough with inattentive, inexperienced, angry, late, tired, sick, drunk, sun in their eyes drivers. We have all been there.

But modifying a vehicle to go off road to the point where it is no longer suitable for the road means it doesn't belong there.

People often exceed the capabilities of themselves and their vehicles. That may result in a near miss, it may not. ESP is touted as extending the capability of the vehicle. Odds are that the gap will be filled by drivers pushing even harder, it tends to work out that way...

Back to the ESP question. Victoria has decided ESP will make their roads safer. It is illogical to make this change without addressing the road worthiness of the current fleet, but hey, its probably more political anyway.

Got to be seen to be doing "something".

x2

then you are a hippy as well.

the car isn't the problem it is the way they are driven if people are not
willing to drive to the conditions and their/the cars abilities then a crash is inevitable.

cars dont kill people, stupid fuckwits kill people.

I saw a pic not long ago, shoe lase thing, owned apparently by someone with enuf nouse to teach people stuff, but not smart enuf to get car fixed.

People kill.

The nut that holds the steering wheel, is the most dangerous thing on/in a car.

maby that was temp fix to get him home ?

[Fatzook]

TryHard wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I saw a pic not long ago, shoe lase thing, owned apparently by someone with enuf nouse to teach people stuff, but not smart enuf to get car fixed.

People kill.

The nut that holds the steering wheel, is the most dangerous thing on/in a car.

maby that was temp fix to get him home ?

thats what tow trucks are for.

[TryHard]

Fatzook wrote:

TryHard wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I saw a pic not long ago, shoe lase thing, owned apparently by someone with enuf nouse to teach people stuff, but not smart enuf to get car fixed.

People kill.

The nut that holds the steering wheel, is the most dangerous thing on/in a car.

maby that was temp fix to get him home ?

thats what tow trucks are for.

o comon your all saying u would pay 200 odd bucks to get ur car home when u could bodge it and drive it carefully get real..i would of bodged it but done a slightly better job then that ...

[Ben_Sierra]

TryHard wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

TryHard wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I saw a pic not long ago, shoe lase thing, owned apparently by someone with enuf nouse to teach people stuff, but not smart enuf to get car fixed.

People kill.

The nut that holds the steering wheel, is the most dangerous thing on/in a car.

maby that was temp fix to get him home ?

thats what tow trucks are for.

o comon your all saying u would pay 200 odd bucks to get ur car home when u could bodge it and drive it carefully get real..i would of bodged it but done a slightly better job then that ...

Maybe you should read the fucking thread instead of spouting shit you don't know anything about...

shep wrote:

it has been temporary for 3 years apparently. the laces last for about 3 months.

[Fatzook]

TryHard wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

thats what tow trucks are for.

o comon your all saying u would pay 200 odd bucks to get ur car home when u could bodge it and drive it carefully get real..i would of bodged it but done a slightly better job then that ...

Call me crazy but i'd rather pay $200 than risk further damage or personal injury.

[shep]

TryHard wrote:

Fatzook wrote:

TryHard wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

I saw a pic not long ago, shoe lase thing, owned apparently by someone with enuf nouse to teach people stuff, but not smart enuf to get car fixed.

People kill.

The nut that holds the steering wheel, is the most dangerous thing on/in a car.

maby that was temp fix to get him home ?

thats what tow trucks are for.

o comon your all saying u would pay 200 odd bucks to get ur car home when u could bodge it and drive it carefully get real..i would of bodged it but done a slightly better job then that ...

no tow trucks in the bush

lack of maintenance and stupid things like no mudflaps and dark tint already have laws preventing them
however they aren't policed. blanket laws regarding modified cars are silly because
eventually the legislators will just say that the car must remain as stock.
preventing mods is just an extension of the idea of trying to prevent stupid people
from hurting themselves. actually now that i think about it 4wds are becoming pointless
as more and more areas become off limits to the general public.

[shep]

i really think that unless Aussies start to tell the legislators to fuck off with there stupid nanny state shit
we will all just live in a few major centres and the bush will just be national parks
with big padlocks on the gates and a few strip mines and we will all be driving a state approved piece off shit. all the same, maybe a choice of colour.
the ocean will be a big marine park that no one can access and life will be possibly safe but very shit.

[royce]

shep wrote:

i really think that unless Aussies start to tell the legislators to fuck off with there stupid nanny state shit
we will all just live in a few major centres and the bush will just be national parks
with big padlocks on the gates and a few strip mines and we will all be driving a state approved piece off shit. all the same, maybe a choice of colour.
the ocean will be a big marine park that no one can access and life will be possibly safe but very shit.

Problem is 80% already live like that, facebook was the greatest tool any government could ever be given

[IN2DEP]

Well I read that link "woo603" posted and I still think its bull shit lol, just another way for the goverment to tell us how to live,

And about all that stuff about moding and dick heads behide the wheel ? I belive its the driver, not the car,

You can kill someone in a "stock" 3cyl swift ga, its all about the driver,

[royce]

IN2DEP wrote:

Well I read that link "woo603" posted and I still think its bull shit lol, just another way for the goverment to tell us how to live,

And about all that stuff about moding and dick heads behide the wheel ? I belive its the driver, not the car,

You can kill someone in a "stock" 3cyl swift ga, its all about the driver,

Some well meaning numpty can modify something to a dangerous state with no idea its bad or beyond their abilities too, why do you think I am always screaming about people positng up bullshit information, it could well hurt or kill somebody one day

[tonyevans]

Most states have laws that give the police power to book you if you are driving in an unsafe manner - this includes unsafe for road OR vehicle condition - That really is all the legislation that is needed IF it's enforced, which it is not - Just because the speed limit on the road sign says 110 it does NOT mean that you HAVE to drive at that speed or more - It means that is the maximum - I usually drive at 95kph in a 100 zone and almost every vehicle on the road goes passed me and most do not slow down after passing.

Speed is the biggest killer on our roads and people just don't wake up to themselves so I guess the government will keep making laws that will cost us all in money and lifestyle.

Yes I agree the most dangerous part of a car is the driver or maybe even the KEY.

[TryHard]

Just to clear up what i said .. for BEN.. im sorry i didnt read the whole thred .. theres no way in hell i would drive my car like that for 3 months let alone years. . as for temp bodge fixs i would rather.. fix the car to drive it back off the track .. i dont think driving a car with a shoe lace tied around it to hold it togher .. but me personaly is not going to pay 200 odd buck to get my car towed home if i think i can fix it safe enuf to carefully drive home .. im not a dick head . i know what i can fix and cant fix im just saying alot of people would rather try fix there crap then call a tow truck even if it means doing 20 Kph the whole way home ..with the hazzards

[Kennel]

shep wrote:

lack of maintenance and stupid things like no mudflaps and dark tint already have laws preventing them
however they aren't policed.

That is my point exactly Shep. There are more vehicles out there that should be taken off the road than those without ESP.

I am sure there is a lot more to the consideration of making ESP mandatory, but it looks like the easy way out. Surely they have weighed up the impact of pushing certain vehicles out of the market, the Jimny won't be the only one. My guess is they are mostly likely to be models in the "budget" category or towards the end of their normal development cycle.

So what would a Jimny customer do? Me? I would have got a second hand one. Size is important Impact of that? More old cars on the road - counterproductive. Or - perhaps, bought a Swift and given up on the idea altogether... and that would have been sadder as I am having a blast with this vehicle.

[Kennel]

royce wrote:

Some well meaning numpty can modify something to a dangerous state with no idea its bad or beyond their abilities too, why do you think I am always screaming about people positng up bullshit information, it could well hurt or kill somebody one day

+1

[Gwagensteve]

The problem with small 4WD's with off road ability in Australia is that people don't want to buy them, or more importantly, don't want to pay for them.

The problem is that they are so close to the same money as a LWB 4WD and are less capable for the way most people use them - not as much room - don't ride as well- look at how many people now want a LWB sierra!

Bundera - sales flop - discontinued after 5 years.
MWB - Sales flop - Discontinued after 5 years.
LC70 - Sales flop - Discontinued after 5 years.
LR90 - Sales flop - on again/off again
I don't really know why SWB patrols sold as well as they did new, and it's pretty obvious why TJ's sold well - cheap and easy to get lots of chrome for - they're like a harley for car owners.

There's a terrible record of "specialised" models selling well - they generally don't.

Even HSV commodores and FPV Falcons are terribly hard to sell. The best front wheel drive car ever - the Renaultsport Megane R26R - was very hard to sell , despite every motoring magazine talking it up and it holding the 'Ring lap record for a FWD car.

I reckon FJ cruisers will be the next thing clogging up dealer's yards.

The only thing the Jimny had going for it was it was cheap. Add 5K to the price add transfer gears and lockers and they'd still be stockpiled in dealers lots. People just aren't interested in paying for capability.

Steve.

[Fatzook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I reckon FJ cruisers will be the next thing clogging up dealer's yards.

The yanks shit canned them already. 3 years of poor sales now discontinued.