[atari4x4]

when i get home i'll have a look for the pics of the set up my old house mate made using a Hyundai throttle body off an excel to use as a gas carby was pretty much exactly the same as what shakes fabbed up, was going into an early Datsun Vannette

[Che]

An Excel TB seems the best part fit - either that or a Kia Rio. They're the right height/shape/throat size/orientation for a pokey zook conversion. A couple o pics would be grouse if you can find em Atari... will give me a few ideas to work with.

Shakes - I want to keep it simple as possible, with a bare minimum to maintain. A single barrel TB again is one less thing that can go wrong, the Aisan is shit for LPG as there's a million holes to deal with and a vacuum secondary that i've had to bogy mechanise with a zip tie.

I'll keep the stock airbox if possible as it's a good setup already, nothing to gain by throwing it away.

[Che]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IMPCO-LP ... 1863wt_898

hmmmm... bored... new toy is one click away

[shakes]

Found a picture for you che. Wasnt what I ended up with, was my first time welding ally and making something manifoldy. A mate hated it too much and actually built me an entire new one but i cannot find pictures of it.

On a stroked leyland p76 motor that was running a 350holley, which was on the small side of things for the motor and a carby hat style mixer, to this TB from a 5ltr commodore (found for nothing in the parts bin at a gas research place) and an impco225 mixer.

It made a whole world of difference to performance/power/driveability. Can only hope the same can be said for the zook.

[shakes]

Just an idea. How close does an MPFI manifold off another zook go to bolting up?? Block the injector ports, would be a more effeciant manifold + throttle body, just need to re-run your intake piping.

Can someone in the know enlighten us?

[Che]

OK, I bought an Impco CA100-12 propane carby a few days ago (waiting for delivery). I'm getting the spare dizzy rebuilt and recurved tomorrow, and maybe buy a super dooper coil off ebay if I lash out. Cam is out and will be off to Tighe cams next payday, but before I tackle the engine itself i'll get the rest right first.

Back to the ignition system - is a spark improvement as simple as a higher output ignition coil and upgraded hi-power/low resistance leads all around, or more to it than that? What is the stock coil voltage anyway?

And is HEI possible on a zook? Is stuff like this MSD box worth the $$$$ investment or will it equal a 0.01% gain in real terms?

[slyvan1]

i had used a excel throttle body with a 90 degree bend it worked really well with an impco mixer. I just made it up, took a few hours. i ended up making a throttle cable. only extra thing i did was hooked up a primer to make starting easier even with the mixtures set up perfectley it is still a little hard to cold start.

[Che]

[royce]

vacuum advance ups the timing when cruising, its for better fuel economy (not a huge difference)

Many performance engines of old wouldn't have vacuum advance and I would say the extra advance they talk about would either make the vacuum advance a waste of time or a hindrance due to too much timing

[Che]

Back to the intake manifold - can I get rid of these bits that i've coloured red? I think they're just idle ups and carby related add ons, but want to confirm first. I can't identify them from the Haynes manual.





Just looking to get rid of what I don't need

[Che]

OK, screw all my plans... 1.6 is the new go. At my rate i'll finally have rebuilt the 1.3 in 500 years time. Cash is tight, but time is not on my side for DIY, I don't think the motor will last out the winter.


Suzistore will provide the rebuilt 1.6 long motor including sump mod, and i'll also get the BenT adaptor kit, what else do I need to switch from a G13A to G16A? Fill in the gaps if you can help:

- new radiator hoses and juice
- new clutch maybe (might as well while it's out)
- .........................

[skyman]

Sorry che, didn't get notifications on this post anymore, so I haven't checked in.


For the clutch either use petroworks, a known brand from AZ, or just a stock OEM clutch. They all work just fine.

My stock 1./3 clutch is holding the 1.6 just fine.

FWIW, both of those bits can go. One is the EGR and a block off plate will take care of it. The other is just a vacuum switch the coolant open and closes. Leaving the vac hoses off will not cause a vacuum leak. We usually tap and plug all those for a cleaner manifold.

If you are going to use a carby manifold, PM me, and I will show you how to port it out for better mileage, torque and RPM.

There is a write up either at pirate, or zukikrawlers that shows how to hook up the MSD ignition. The MSD will make a noticeable difference in combustion with the high octane of the LPG. Fr a stock rig there is not much gain, but for a propane rig, the MSD is well worth the time.

[Che]

[fordem]

I'm a firm believer in breaking-in the motor "as it will be used" and unless you are also in the process of fitting a new and hitherto unknown & untested fueling system - be it EFI or carburettor - the likelihood of "washing down the oiled, newly honed cylinder walls with condensed gasolene" is minimal, and there will be no worries about carburettor jetting or EFI calibration..

The first question I want to ask is this ...

Quote:

The major automotive manufacturers have been breaking in engines with propane for many years.

I'm sure some of you have bought new cars - did the major automotive manufacturer who built your car deliver it to you with the engine already broken in, or did you have to do it after taking delivery?

The second question is ...

Quote:

When specifying a propane carburetor, remember you will not be operating the engine at high power levels, so you will not need a propane carburetor rated at the full power output of the engine. The propane carburetor will automatically adjust its mixture for the no-load, part-throttle, mid-rpm operation of break-in.

So the idea is that I go out & buy a propane carburettor and fuel system, just to break-in the engine and then either switch back to gasolene or buy a second propane carburettor for long term use.

Sounds like it was written by someone with a vested interest in making money off of me rather than one with an interest in the longevity of my engine.

[skyman]

Yes it does sound like it was written by someone trying to sell propane.

Now, we had a guy on our forums who ruined two motors within a week or two and made a big stink about it.

The consensus from the vendor,and a few other experts was that the engine was broken in on propane (which is a very dry fuel)and that cause the premature failure of the new engines.

call or write Zack at zukiengines,com. He has had experience in the area and i am sure he would be glad to help with some good advice.

[Che]

That is actually written by a company that makes the break in lube for camshafts. I ripped the paragraph of info off a 5 page pdf explaining how to break in a fresh motor... the complete article only addresses propane in the section I grabbed, but that caught my attention for obvious reasons. All info comes from this site http://www.zddplus.com

Here's more info from the Gas Research website, who have a solid reputation here in Australia s far as I know:

Running in
Not a problem on gas. Use running in oil for the twenty minutes required to run in your cam. Change this oil whilst hot to regular oil and load the engine on a dynamometer whilst tuning the gas system to perfection. If you do not tune and load your engine in its infancy the bores and rings will glaze.


Thanks for your opinions Skyman and Fordem, i'll have to suss this out more

[royce]

Gas being dry is a good thing, as the air it mixes with is also dry so mixes well

Fuel being wet is bad, as it isnt a lubricant but is a very good solvent

[skyman]

I ken call Zack tomorrow, he builds the things and see what he has to say.

You make a good point Royce

[Che]

^^^ I sent him a message earlier Skyman, will wait for a reply

[Che]

Bah bummm.... double whammy

A response from Zack at ZukiEngines:

You cannot break a Suzuki engine in on LPG. You must have the engine seasoned or broken in on gasoline first. The chrome rings will not seat resulting in failure. I have had personal experience with this situation from a customer and his failed attempts. It may be a better option to build and install into a friends rig with gasoline and then after 1000-2000 miles install into the LPG rig.

So... looks like a good condition 2nd hand G16A is my best bet. Following the above suggestions is waaay too complicated... dammit

[Teracis]

Dual Fuel an option?

[Che]

Nah, I don't have a carby, fuel pump, fuel tank anymore... too hard/not worth sorting it all out again and have it running and well tuned for just for 2000 Ks.

The only real option is to switch out chrome rings for cast iron or something a little softer... but no guarantee they'll seat properly either.

Bummer, was looking forward to all the fun

[alien]

if suzistore are building it, can they run it in on the bench? ie: run it all day long??? or install into one of their wrecks just loosely and run all day?

[royce]

che_guitarra wrote:

Bah bummm.... double whammy

A response from Zack at ZukiEngines:

You cannot break a Suzuki engine in on LPG. You must have the engine seasoned or broken in on gasoline first. The chrome rings will not seat resulting in failure. I have had personal experience with this situation from a customer and his failed attempts. It may be a better option to build and install into a friends rig with gasoline and then after 1000-2000 miles install into the LPG rig.

So... looks like a good condition 2nd hand G16A is my best bet. Following the above suggestions is waaay too complicated... dammit

So he had one customer so its all shit, I say its another 'expert' scared of it

Its still a bloody explosion, the only thing that could go wrong is the numpty setting it up screws the metering solidly and runs it lean, it pings its ass off and kills it

[Teracis]

Damn, well hopefully you can sort something out dude.

[Che]

alien wrote:

if suzistore are building it, can they run it in on the bench? ie: run it all day long??? or install into one of their wrecks just loosely and run all day?

It needs load to seat the rings properly. Running on a bench is zero load situation, so won't quite do what needs to be done to get it all fitting properly.

Royce, I hear ya. Dying to give it a rip, but i'm getting a little scared of it too as if I fuck up i'm in a world of debt, and finding bugger all info to guarantee success. I doubt the customer ran it in properly myself, but can't be sure...

Meanwhile I bought another 5L of Magnatec today... getting about 1500K to the container now.... situation critical

[royce]

find an engine dyno in the area and get it run in on that, wont take too long and your engine will be under close scrutiny the whole time

I wonder if brand new dual fuel cars have anything about not using gas first 1000km?

[Che]

Dad has a brand new straight LPG Falcon ute

I'll try find a reputable dyno operator tomorrow

[Teracis]

che_guitarra wrote:

alien wrote:

if suzistore are building it, can they run it in on the bench? ie: run it all day long??? or install into one of their wrecks just loosely and run all day?

It needs load to seat the rings properly. Running on a bench is zero load situation, so won't quite do what needs to be done to get it all fitting properly.

Royce, I hear ya. Dying to give it a rip, but i'm getting a little scared of it too as if I fuck up i'm in a world of debt, and finding bugger all info to guarantee success. I doubt the customer ran it in properly myself, but can't be sure...

Meanwhile I bought another 5L of Magnatec today... getting about 1500K to the container now.... situation critical

Mine is around 1L/tank so around 40:1 and I get about 300-350km to a tank. It's been like this a while, just buy cheap shit 20w50 and keep checking the fuel and filling it with oil...

I know it's no good for the environment, and it shits me off to keep doing it, but I'm trying to get gear for a conversion so that will sort it out!

[royce]

a tafe might have a dyno?