[eXc450]

---------------------------------------
UPDATED info since original post;
---------------------------------------

It's fixed...it was a short on the temp gauge wire.

========================================

OK, So it has gotten to the point now where I can replicate it on the garage floor which has made it a bit easier to fault find.

I know now, that if I unplug the coolant sensor, it works fine (except a bit rough until it's warm in the mornings).

I replaced the coolant sensor, still having issues.

I replaced the computer, still having issues.

I will re-run my own wires. still having issues.

Videos that show what it is doing;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtSc6I99NcE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWchWChOZ6s

Cheers
Chris

Hi All,

My car (Vitara G16b) started missing while driving (not at idle) about 2 weeks ago. It only did it once, then it was fine until the other day. Now it is doing it more frequently.

It only happens once the car is warm and it happens more often during the day (hot) than at night (cool).

I replaced the igniton leads around 3 months ago as my previous ones had been taped up multiple times to fix them. So I assume they are good. I was thinking that maybe somehow once the car is hot, their ability to not short out to the engine is reduced somehow? I could try putting my old taped up ones (which were working fine) back on.

It misses in a range of situations. It has missed at revs between 2500 and 4000 ( I rarely go above 4000). It usually happens if the car starts to 'bog down' say mid way up a hill. However it has happened on the flat, just crusing at 60 in 4th.

It has missed in 2/3/4/5th gears.

It does not happen at idle - I cannot reproduce it in the garage.

Things I have done;

- New plugs
- New leads (3 months ago - problem started 2 weeks ago)
- Cleaned throttle intake
- Cleaned air filter (but I might buy a new one)
- Cleaned Dizzy Cap/Rotor with emery cloth/contact cleaner
- 3/4 of a tank of fuel with injector cleaner has gone through it this week

Other stuff
- Fuel filter is just over a year old
- I have gone through about 3 tanks of fuel since it started

Does anyone have some advice as to where to go from here?

Could it be a vaccum leak?

[xedent]

What's your car ?

[royce]

can you describe the miss? given when it occours its sounds like an ignition thing, do you notice nay pinging?

i'd change the leads to the old ones for a quick run to see what happens, have a good look at your new leads for any signs of black marks near anything they may be touching, the leads could be arcing through the insulation

its a 16 valve? look for any signs of oil on the end of the plug tubes as well, a leak will make a miss

[eXc450]

xedent wrote:

What's your car ?

Sorry, Updated first post - Vitara G16b

[eXc450]

royce wrote:

can you describe the miss? given when it occours its sounds like an ignition thing, do you notice nay pinging?

It basically just makes the whole car shudder until I change down a gear. To me, it is like it cuts the engine on and off. It's similar, but not the same, to the speed limiter that was on my Skyline.

If I rev it a bit harder, then go up a gear it's fine for another few minutes. Which to me first I thought it was a blockage, it went away for a week or so, then came back.

royce wrote:

i'd change the leads to the old ones for a quick run to see what happens, have a good look at your new leads for any signs of black marks near anything they may be touching, the leads could be arcing through the insulation

That's what I was planning to do this morning - I'll give that a go.

royce wrote:

its a 16 valve? look for any signs of oil on the end of the plug tubes as well, a leak will make a miss

Sorry, I updated the first post, it's a G16b. No there isn't any oil at the end of the plug leads. There is the usual oil leak around the tappet cover.

[royce]

can you hear it in the exhaust note? normally an ignition miss is pretty hard to miss

might be the fuel pump is not keeping up or the fuel pressure reg is off, little thing on the front of the fuel rail, check the vacuum hose is still on and not leaking

[eXc450]

I put the old ignition leads on - It's still doing it.

I guess now I think about it, previous misfires have sounded 'bad' as well, where as this does seem more to be just hesitating. The whole care shudders as it cuts in and out.

There is no obvious smoke out the back.

I'll do some research and check out the fuel pressure regulator.

The vacuum hoses appear to be fine.

[eXc450]

I have not been able to diagnose the FPR.

I have taken it to a mechanic and he thinks it is an electrical issue.

I have taken it to an EFI Specialist, and he can't get the codes out manually.

The book says that if you turn the ignition on (not start car) the engine light should go out after 3 seconds. It stays on. The book suggests it is a computer problem.

Thoughts?

What should I expect to pay for a computer? Is it hard to swap?

[royce]

Hang so the check engine light is staying on while the engine is running?

search around here on getting the codes out, you do it with a plug under the bonnet and they flash up on the light on the dash

[atari4x4]

here are the codes for the J20a, http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... j20a+codes not sure if the G16 is the same as the J20a

[eXc450]

royce wrote:

Hang so the check engine light is staying on while the engine is running?

search around here on getting the codes out, you do it with a plug under the bonnet and they flash up on the light on the dash

No, the engine light stays on with the engine off, Igniton on. The book said it should turn off after 3 secosnds.

When it is running the engine light turns off as it should.

When you bridge the diagnosis port in the engine bay...I can't remember now if the engine light did nothing, or stayed on the whole time.

When you bridge the diagnosis port under the dash, it shorts the heater fuse.

[buzbox]

I'd do a process of elimination starting with new plugs, distributor cap, rotor button, then go from there. If the check engine light comes on, I'd be looking at replacing the o2 sensor.

Having a look at the Haynes service manual, in the fault finding section it lists quite a few things for ' Engine misses throughout driving speed range'
fuel filter clogged
faulty or incorrectly gapped spark plugs
Incorrect timing
cracked distributor cap
defective spark plug leads
Emmision components faulty (02 sensor)
Low or uneven cylinder compression
Weak or faulty coil
vaccum leaks at intake manifold or vaccum hoses
dirty or clogged cabi or injector
leaky EGR valve

[eXc450]

thanks for the ideas Buzz.

Attached is the codes.

But I can't get any codes... well I haven't tried, but the EFI specialist couldn't.

[royce]

I dont think the light will go out without the engine running cause as far as its concerned a whole heap of sensors arent working

do you have the fuse panel and that plug there? how many wires into your air flow meter?

dont bridge the plug under the dash!!!! youll fuck the ECU real good

but if the light isnt on no codes will show anyway, it doesnt remember them

[eXc450]

I'll have to get back to you on those Royce, I can't get near the car ATM.

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

but if the light isnt on no codes will show anyway, it doesnt remember them

If the light did come one once but did turn off and didn't come back on again or is intermittent, the code is still stored in the flash of the ECU and will show once the diag plug is bridged. Code will not be cleared until the flash has been and this is only when the battery is disconnected. Well this is how the earlier 1.6 ECU operate.

Dan

[stocker]

I'd be checking Dizzy Cap, Rotor Button ( they could be worn out and require replacing sometimes a good ol clean just isn't enough ) esp since its mainly happening under load.

i'd also be checking the Airfilter, engine requires more air Underload. therefore check it / replace it, check the intake isn't blocked or half blocked.

Fuel filter... - a year depending on how many km's you do, Replace it

Spark plugs, - pull them out, see if they have a carbon deposit or build up, if one of them has an extra amount you may have a problem with the cylinder.

Service it - replace oil, Oil filter etc with the correct grade of oil

Im pretty sure by this stage you get the jist of what im trying to put across...

three basic elements of a petrol motor running. Fuel, Air, Spark.
start with the basic consumable parts on it. then start looking into more depth

[royce]

JrZook wrote:

royce wrote:

but if the light isnt on no codes will show anyway, it doesnt remember them

If the light did come one once but did turn off and didn't come back on again or is intermittent, the code is still stored in the flash of the ECU and will show once the diag plug is bridged. Code will not be cleared until the flash has been and this is only when the battery is disconnected. Well this is how the earlier 1.6 ECU operate.

Dan

mine had a faulty AFM, light was on, replaced it, light went out, no reset of anything it showed only an all clear code

[losfer]

sounds like an ignition miss under load to me (the spark tries to find the shortest path to ground), so if its not the leads , or plugs , would start looking at the coil

[eXc450]

Hi All,

I have been out of the country so only just got back to keep looking at this.

I replaced the Dizzy and rotor. Still has the issue.

I have just measured the coil (with a cheap mulitimeter)

Primary Resistance = 1.8 ohm (Recommended is 1.08 - 1.32)
Secondary = 25.7 k.ohm(Recommended is 22.1 - 22.9k.ohm)

Would it be worth borrowing a good multimeter to test with, or is that enough difference to say it is stuffed?

Cheers

[jimny_timmy]

eXc450 wrote:

Hi All,

I have been out of the country so only just got back to keep looking at this.

I replaced the Dizzy and rotor. Still has the issue.

I have just measured the coil (with a cheap mulitimeter)

Primary Resistance = 1.8 ohm (Recommended is 1.08 - 1.32)
Secondary = 25.7 k.ohm(Recommended is 22.1 - 22.9k.ohm)

Would it be worth borrowing a good multimeter to test with, or is that enough difference to say it is stuffed?

Cheers

Did you try new plugs? I know it's been suggested, just didn't see a response as to whether you did or not

[eXc450]

yes, I have tried new plugs, leads, dizzy cap, rotor, fuel filter.

Machanic says it's electrical.
Electrical guy says it's mechanical.

Book says it's a shot computer (can't get any codes out)

[joe5701]

I have just measured the coil (with a cheap mulitimeter)

Primary Resistance = 1.8 ohm (Recommended is 1.08 - 1.32)
Secondary = 25.7 k.ohm(Recommended is 22.1 - 22.9k.ohm)

Would it be worth borrowing a good multimeter to test with, or is that enough difference to say it is stuffed?

Cheers[/quote]

try an accurate meter. I bought a cheap one it aint worth a pinch of shit, good one makes a big difference.

[eXc450]

I'll borrow the father in law's Fluke tonight...

[fordem]

royce wrote:

mine had a faulty AFM, light was on, replaced it, light went out, no reset of anything it showed only an all clear code

Just a passing comment - the ECU most likely does store the codes, but there is no way to retrieve them without a scanner.

This is one of the advantages of Rhinoview - the paper clip & count the CEL flash method will only reveal "active" codes, Rhinoview will show both active & stored codes.

[McBane]

even with a cheap multimeter thats a high result for a secondary i'd chuck a coil at it

[eXc450]

eXc450 wrote:

I have just measured the coil (with a cheap mulitimeter)

Primary Resistance = 1.8 ohm (Recommended is 1.08 - 1.32)
Secondary = 25.7 k.ohm(Recommended is 22.1 - 22.9k.ohm)

Borrowed father in law's fluke.

Primary Resistance = 1.1 ohm (Recommended is 1.08 - 1.32)
Secondary = 25.28 k.ohm (Recommended is 22.1 - 22.9k.ohm)


I have just about given up. I have booked it in to an auto electrician. So what do you guys think, spend more money on a coil ($170 new, $60 wreckers...not that they have any at the moment) or just let the auto sparky work it out (cost $120 for diagnostic/time)

[eXc450]

royce wrote:

do you have the fuse panel and that plug there?

Not sure what you mean here.

royce wrote:

how many wires into your air flow meter?

3

[eXc450]

I bought a 2nd hand coil for $35...it's measurements are worse than the original one... it has the same issues driving.

[christover1]

Could be vapour lock in your cooling system,
that can give ecu false temp readings,
worse when hot,
it was what was wrong with mine, with similar issues.
Do a cooling system check..
Don't trust temp guage accuracy.