[steak_knife]

Don't run molly's.....

[Che]

Anyone know where I can get this stuff in Aus?

[mnemonix]

BK Race Engines in Blacktown (Sydney NSW).
02 9791 3510
bkraceengines.com.au

[Che]

OK, I need 2 questions answered/solved and then it's all systems go.


(1) Can I get cast iron piston rings to suit a g16a, or g13a? I got no idea what i'm looking for when it comes to rings, but I can't use OEM which is chrome.

(2) Is there enough length in a GxxA block to safely raise compression to 9.5:1 - 10:1?

[royce]

why do you need cast rings?

why do you need a longer block? raising compression is easily done skimming the head

[JrZook]

Think he's asking if there's enough 'meat' in the block/head so it can be decked to get a CR of 10:1.

[royce]

you dont deck a block for more compression either

[fordem]

High compression pistons are available - at least for the 1.3 - the crown of the piston is flat rather than recessed.

[JrZook]

royce wrote:

you dont deck a block for more compression either

So if you did deck a block your saying you won't gain compression?

You deck a block to get desired piston height at TDC to set the quench height/area of piston crown to head.

So if you decked the block, you would reduce the quench area and increase the CR.

[Che]

The last couple of weeks i've called every tom dick and harry and joined a heap of new forums to get a straight answer on LPG and the break in procedure. I've had too much conflicting information I wanted to address before I put money down on anything. These issues have been addressed - If I can get cast iron rings it's all systems go

Basically, the OEM rings are made of chrome, and chrome rings will never bed using LPG, propane or any other dry fuel - they are just too hard a material. If I can source cast iron rings i'll have no issues breaking in the motor as long as the cylinder machining and honing is A1, infact, all the LPG gurus recommend cast iron as first choice. But, Suzistore only deal with OEM rings on their rebuilds, so want to know if I have options I can point in their direction.

Suzistore guy also said decking the block will raise compression, but they don't usually deck it enough to raise the compression a whole ratio. I just want to know if it's done will the valves and pistons interfere? The pistons have that valve groove on top afterall

I'm guessing the other option is to make the pistons and/or rods a fracco longer - but 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other to me, both seem to lead to the same outcome. Decking the block will no doubt be cheaper, but school me if it's the wrong way to go.


So, cast iron rings are gonna be hard to source huh?

[Santos]

I haven't read the last 4 pages but can you do a hard break in on petrol then switch to 100% lpg so you can use the chromy rings?

2nd point. When i was seriously looking in to lpg i remember reading that high compressions with 'propane' did not see the same results as wet racing fuel. The author explained that since it was a 100% gas running through the intake and combustion chamber it worked different. To sum up he strongly urged to stick to 9.5:1 compression, no higher

i quick google and i couldn't find the source but i remember it being two volumes and he talked about american systems and european systems (ie euro systems used venturi an i think american was valve carb)

[shep]

so much expense and effort for little to no gain. just buy a fuel tank and a second hand motor.
you could probably fund it by selling the gas shit.
a second hand g13 including freight to the NT is $325 i dont understand why you would fuck around
with new motors and the gas shit when ya cant afford it.

[atari4x4]

che_guitarra wrote:

So, cast iron rings are gonna be hard to source huh?

this mob... JP Engineering

25-31 Innes Rd
Windsor Gardens
South Australia 5087
Australia

PO Box 21
Greenacres SA 5086
Australia

Phone: +61 (0)8 8261 7222
Fax: +61 (0)8 8261 9171

they were good 20 years ago & they're still good & will still be good in another 20years. they custom made the 90tho over pistons in my Mk1 Cortina, some weirdo "race cut" shape that the old man knew about from Formula Fords.

http://www.jp.com.au/

Piston Rings

Quote:

JP Pistons have Australia's largest range of loose piston rings. Our sizes range from 1.000" right up to 12 inches! Ring types include cast and chrome compression rings for four-stroke and two-stroke engines as well as plain oil (single piece cast iron) and multiple piece oil control rings.

All rings are available as individual rings or as engine sets.

All JP Pistons piston rings are imported from leading ring manufacturers throughout the world. This gives us the greatest flexibility for getting the best rings for your pistons.

http://www.jp.com.au/Rings.html

[Che]

True Shep, but it's my daily drive and it's still cheaper/more fun to run than a Getz, and I can get it even cheaper to run with a higher CR.

If I drop $2-3K on a motor it'll still only owe me $7-8K all up, and should give me 10 years til I have to do it again - that's a pretty good return, and a bit of fun in the process. It's not that I can't afford it (although my last business partner did leave me hanging for a couple of months), the car is totally paid, it's just my game to make this the cheapest car to run i've ever owned. Just gotta annoy you guys with a million questions in the meantime


Santos - I thought of this too (was in some recent posts), but much easier to install cast iron rings than to stick with OEM and then source a carb, petrol tank, pump, sort out fed lines, get it all installed, tuned, run it for 5000K, spend $1000 in petrol, then take it all off again. Cast iron rings will last plenty long enough, and save me all this hassle... if I can find em (edit - cheers Atari ).

[Ben_Sierra]

che_guitarra wrote:

True Shep, but it's my daily drive and it's still cheaper/more fun to run than a Getz, and I can get it even cheaper to run with a higher CR.

If I drop $2-3K on a motor it'll still only owe me $7-8K all up, and should give me 10 years til I have to do it again - that's a pretty good return, and a bit of fun in the process. It's not that I can't afford it (although my last business partner did leave me hanging for a couple of months), the car is totally paid, it's just my game to make this the cheapest car to run i've ever owned. Just gotta annoy you guys with a million questions in the meantime


Santos - I thought of this too (was in some recent posts), but much easier to install cast iron rings than to stick with OEM and then source a carb, petrol tank, pump, sort out fed lines, get it all installed, tuned, run it for 5000K, spend $1000 in petrol, then take it all off again. Cast iron rings will last plenty long enough, and save me all this hassle... if I can find em (edit - cheers Atari ).

If minimal running costs at any expense is what you're looking for, sell the lot and get one of these:

[atari4x4]

give them a buzz che, they're pretty clued up. i'd be inclined to get a set of rings/pistons from them.

[skyman]

If they can source the cast rings, do it. I could not find any here in the U.S. that were not custom order, and a long wait + major expensive. If you can get them there, go for it.

As for higher compression, grab some HC piston from any mob, Get the highest ratio you can, Because of the extremely high octane of LPG you can, and will need to run higher compression and more timing to make up for the loss of power.

The big bonus is that the higher compression and extra timing makes for a more powerful 1.3 than the ht rod rod petrol motors.

I had the H/C piston in my petrol engine, and I loved it, it was a snappy tight torquey little bastard for its size.. I would have killed to be able to run a high octane fuel like LPG. I would have run the timing up and made more power, the thing was already a little screamer.

H/C pistons, cast rings, more timing. Sounds like a good recipe to me, all you need is a hot cam to top it off

[Taylor74]

Hasting rings are a cast chrome combo to my knowledge, find someone with some and get them to open the packet to confirm. No one sells straight cast rings these days for a reason. There CRAP!!! first time warm and all over.
Get a good hone finish on the block and theres nothing wrong with chrome ring. All new model vehicles come out with chrome rings, you can buy straight gas dedicated vehicles and they have chrome rings. All come down to the final hone finish at the end of the day any good machine shop should do this for you.

[Che]

Ben_Sierra wrote:

If minimal running costs at any expense is what you're looking for, sell the lot and get one of these:

I've had two bikes, a postie and a CBR250. Never again. The amount of close calls I had due to absent minded drivers you can write this idea off completely.

[Ben_Sierra]

Ride like everyone is trying to kill you.

I commute to work every day on a bike... Way cheaper to run than any car...

[masterA]

Depends how far you need to travel and what time.
TIn sthe summer i would definatelly agree but with the wonderful weather we're having in Perth currently....traveling at 5am.... 3*C....in the rain.... 45km one way to work is not something i would like to do on a bike every day

[Che]

I missed the boat to call JP Engineering for this week... but I think i've found a supplier in China... can I trust em (a) for quality and (b) to get it right?

http://www.gasgoo.com/auto-products/eng ... 85566.html

You're right Taylor74, I've been getting my ring types mixed up - I want ductile iron rings if I can get em, a general improvement over cast options. Still saying no to chrome - i've not received any professional advice to suggest this is a good idea, all experts are telling me to stick to iron with LPG.

[Che]

shep wrote:

so much expense and effort for little to no gain....
a second hand g13 including freight to the NT is $325... i dont understand why you would fuck around with new motors.

I've seen the light, and i've pushed this shit up a hill as far as i'm prepared to go For the price the rebuild and fuck around I can also get this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Suzuki-Sierr ... 500wt_1156

For starters it's a 10x better zook than mine with 10x less to do. I now think a better idea is to run my zook into the ground - part out what I don't need and use the rest for spares in a future project... like a LWB zook.

I'd love to do a dedicated LPG rebuild, but unless you have a Ford or Holden 6/V8 there is no aftermarket parts alternatives to make it all possible.

LPG - it's cheaper to run and easier to maintain than any other fuel/system, but installing it on a car with 200K on the clock was a bad idea in hindsight. Lesson learnt

[zooky08]

I've used hasting rings in my rebuild
I didn't take note, but they didn't look Crome to me
But like Taylor said they could be a combo of Crome, cast