[Hybrid]

Joe,

I see you posted a pic on outers of a 1.6 swift TBI on an import engine. You mentioned it might overfuel. I would have asked on outers but I didn't want to spend any more time on there than I had to. Do you know if the swift injector will mount in an 8 valve vit TBI throttle body and if it has a higher flow rate than the standard one? I'm chasing an SC12 charger for mine but I'm worried the standard vit injector wont flow enough to keep the AFR right.

Cheers,

John

[Damo]

The Swift throttle body is different to the Vitara one, I don't think the injector will fit. I can have a look tonight though, i've got a Swift head + inlet mani at home.

[Hybrid]

Damn, I've kind of shot msyelf in the foot with running TBI as far as spercharging it. The stock injector might handle it I suppose. I might have to go back to my home port injection idea lol. Got that tig yet Damo, I'd need it for the injector bosses.

[Damo]

Hybrid wrote:

Damn, I've kind of shot msyelf in the foot with running TBI as far as spercharging it. The stock injector might handle it I suppose. I might have to go back to my home port injection idea lol. Got that tig yet Damo, I'd need it for the injector bosses.

It's a DC only TIG, so wont do aluminium. I'm thinking of selling my MIG and getting a TIG though, but don't hold your breath, you know how slowly the wheels turn in Damo's world

[Scrawny]

Yeah, but at least there is a top notch car emerging...... somewhere

[Damo]

ScrawnC wrote:

Yeah, but at least there is a top notch car emerging...... somewhere

That's news to me. I'll let you know if I see one though

[joeblow]

one for yoy joe?....damn.......sounded like there was white women on offer....

the swift tb is a lot bigger as it is designed to let more fuel and air into the 16 valve motor. i'm sure it could be done so it works but it may require custom efi settings, which i'm not a big fan of. if you want to run a multi point system i would sugest sending me a gasket fot the 1.3 motor and i should have one for a 16 valve lying around and i'll come up with an adaptor plate on solidworks and see if its doable. mpi is much better than tbi and more 'tweakable'.

[Hybrid]

Thanks Joe, I might stick with what I've got for now. I'm actually running an 8 valve 1.6 tbi currently. I was just wondering if the actual injector could be transplanted from the 16valve swift tb to mine for a higher injector flow rate. Custom efi settings aren't a prob as I'm running a megasquirt ecu and wide band o2 sensor which is custom anyway. Not much info out there on the 1.6 tbi fueling requirements so I made it all up myself. Custom making an adapter from the 8 valve to the 16 valve manifold could be cool though. I just "aquired" a copy of solidworks but I think it will take me a long time to learn how to use it even half decently. Thanks for giving me more project ideas though.

Oh, and how many white girls did you want?

[Damo]

Just putting an idea out there Hybris. How about taking this Swift manifold that I have with the larger injector, cuttong off the flange, then welding that to the flange from the 8v engine?

I know that's a fair bit of rooting around, it's just another idea.

[royce]

does the swift TBI spray above the throttle body?
could you add another injector to fire staged into the air hat?

or falcom TBI can flow a fair bit, you could make an adaptor plate up

[Damo]

royce wrote:

or falcom TBI can flow a fair bit, you could make an adaptor plate up

That might be the easiest way to go i think

[Hybrid]

Damo wrote:

royce wrote:

or falcom TBI can flow a fair bit, you could make an adaptor plate up

That might be the easiest way to go i think

Yeah falcon TBI might be the go. The only worry there would be if the injector was too big to keeo in the healthy pulse width range at idle. I might have a thikn about multi point. If I'm going to upgrade I might as well get away from TBI's all together. That way I've got more range for adjustment to sort out off idle response and accelleration enrichment as well.

[JrZook]

Hybrid wrote:

Damo wrote:

royce wrote:

or falcom TBI can flow a fair bit, you could make an adaptor plate up

That might be the easiest way to go i think

Yeah falcon TBI might be the go. The only worry there would be if the injector was too big to keeo in the healthy pulse width range at idle. I might have a thikn about multi point. If I'm going to upgrade I might as well get away from TBI's all together. That way I've got more range for adjustment to sort out off idle response and accelleration enrichment as well.

I believe some bloke was running the falcon TBI+MS with a turbo setup on a zuk ute 1.3. He changed over from a blow thru weber setup and reckons the TB worked excellent. What do ya define as a healthy pulse width at idle? I though MS was fully adjustable? Injector takes something like 0.1-0.5ms till it actually opens then the open time is up to you.
I also have a spare manifold here looking for injector bosses for a project . So if ya ever go down that road give us a yell, im interested. I still think TB will be no problem, definitely simpler anyway.

Cheers Dan

[Damo]

The TBI thing would certainly be worth a crack, considering how much easier it would be to get to the testing stage.

[royce]

the falcon runs a very strange duty cycle at idle to get around the overfueling thing, it runs a normal pulse width to get s decent spray but at a low duty cycle, IE there are bigger gaps before it fires again, then once the revs pick up it switches back to something more normal, you can here that they are firing very infrequently at idle then switches over

I dont know if the MS can do that but it might be able to just drop one injector?

[Hybrid]

I actually think the MS does have an injector staging setting but I'm pretty sure that refers to different injector banks on port injection. I'm sure I could get it to drop one injector below a certain RPM though some way or another. Thanks for the offer of the manifold JR. The reason I'm wanting to steer away from the TBI is a hesitation off idle that I've got at the moment. I've put it down to the fact that at 1 squirt per engine cycle, which it is running at now, with a moderate stab of the throttle the engine starves for fuel for an instant before the next load corrected squirt. I tried upping it to 2 squirts per cycle to even this out a bit but it put the fuel maps right off wihch meant I had the injector opening time wrong. No matter what I did with the injector opening time it didn't work which then made me think there's something wrong with my injector. Therefore, if I go to port with brand new mapped injectors with all the opening time and resistance figures I would have all the data rather than tuning blind. Trying to find the actual opening time and other data for the standard vit single point injector is like finding rocking horse shit.

So in summary I've pretty much canned all types of TBI based on the fact that my one injector might be cactus lol

[royce]

I think you need to think like a carby when tuning TBI, generally speaking a hesitation when you accelerate is due to a lean out, you need more fuel when changing the amount of air available to an engine versus a steady load, thats why carbies have an accelerator pump, is there some kind of adjustment available in the MS for this? (like the old accel adjustment in microtechs)

I used to set the idle mixture very very rich on holleys to get around in for mates to cheap to set it up properly, might be worth a shot?

[Hybrid]

Yeah they call it acceleration enrichment. Unofortunately its the same probelm as before though. The enrichment can't kick in until the next squirt so there is that delay. One cycle is 2 revolutions (obviously) so at 800 rpm there is a small time (.15 of a decond) from when you open the throttle to when the fuel is adjusted. The hesitation appears longer because the engine needs to recover from the instantaneous lean out.

As you mentioned though I could probably run a rich idle to smooth the hesitation a little, which I never thought of. Wouldn't this foul the plugs pretty quick though?

[royce]

I get ya now, dunno they might foul up but how long do you ever sit at idle for? soon as you get some load on they will burn clean again

[JrZook]

Hurmmm sounds very interesting. So what your saying is that you get 1 lean fire before it can update itself and this one lean fire causes the massive deadspot? I could understand if it took a few cycles to update itself that you'd get a noticeable deadspot but 1 fire?? How do you have the TBi setup? Is it squirting per valve opening or does it feed two engine fires per squirt? There must be away around this, unless your injector is shagged or something. How do zuks run with TBi and factory computer in terms of heavy acceleration?

Dan

[Hybrid]

I'm not certain this is the problem but it seems to make sense in my head. I've wonderd how the stock ecu works but can't track down any info. My guess is that its running 2 squirts per cycle or more. I definately think that my injector is no good though which means I can't fully put it down to anything. I think basically I've got a bad injector and to compensate I've adjusted the fuel map accordingly. As I never saw the injector "failing" on a standard ecu I didn't know that I was compensating with the fuel map. Even the figures for checking the injector vary depending where you source it. If I go by one bit of info the injector falls just inside the correct resistance range, if I go by another its outseide the range. The reason I've come to the conclusion that it is no good is because no matter what opening time I use throughout all of the safe range (If i recall correctly .8-1.5 milliseconds) when I change the number of squirts the fuel map needs to be adjusted. If you have the correct opening time on a healthy injector it shouldn't matter how many squirts you use the VE fuel maps should remain accurate.