[ash97zook]

I have a 97 sierra with a broken motor.. I have $2,000 and would like to do an engine upgrade.. I am currently stuck on the descision on whether to go a 1.6 vitara or M15A out of a swift or swift gti or 4AGE.. I have been doing as much research as possible and I have found a M15A with wiring loom, ecu and gearbox which could fit but I assume with a lot of hassle with engine mounts, cooling, fuel and exhaust.. I saw the article of the 1.6 and the GTI conversion on the fourms but cost wasnt really mentioned.

What I want to know is what have people done, problems (QLD transport included)/advantages and how much they spent or even if they have just looked into it or even if people have a engine to sell .. it looks like i can get an engine around the $1000 mark and I can put it in myself and do the simply manufacturing (with help) .. has anyone got prices on engineers certificates etc?

Anyway broad topic but would appreciate any info or help anyone can supply.. Thank you! Feel free to contact on 0439872212 if thats easier..

[Teracis]

Hey man, I'm just about finished gathering up the bits for a 1.6 conversion, I'm using a 1.6 efi from a 2001 Baleno.

Which is a coilpack engine though I'll need to do some pipe work and fabrication on the sump e.t.c.

So far I've got the Baleno from pickles auctions ($1040 to my door, I won the auction for $800 the rest was fees and transport), the BenT adapter kit ($200 should arrive this week), and I'll get some flanges laser cut for the thermostat pipe and extractors (already have extractors this will be to mate it to the new motor) and I expect the flanges to come in under $100.

I'm not 100% on whether I need to buy commodore engine mounts or if I can make the sierra ones fit (got to read that bit of the howto's again) but other than that It will be oil, coolant, and because it's going to be out and it has 80,000km on it I'll do the timing belt while it's out. So there goes another $200 by the time I buy all that.

I'm also going to take the body off the zook and repair all the rust, then repaint the whole thing which I'm going to allow around $250 for the lot (sheet metal we may need and paint).

I've already bought all new wheel bearings and knuckle rebuild kits so once it's done it'll be like new! I'm not including this in the engine swap price.

Adding up all the things I've mentioned there comes to around $1800 but that is with me and or mates doing ALL the labor.

Hopefully it's less than $200 for the mod plate and there's the $2000 gone.
I fully intend to sell whatever I can from the Baleno, and the other motors/parts I have here to re-coup some funds though so I may come in under that.

I plan to do a full howto, much like the one cairnszook has in the good tech thread, though with some more pics of the stuff that's missing or vague (like exactly what is going on with the sump fabrication or some extra info about the loom) IF I get time with it, I should make time so I can help the next person. Not that there's anything wrong with cairnszook's writeup, I just have some extra questions that it doesn't answer, which will be answered when I see it all apart in front of me on the floor!

Vitara swap would be the easiest you've mentioned btw.

[ash97zook]

Wow thank you so much for taking the time to reply with all that information really appreciate it! I think your right with the vitara being the easiest just not sure its the cheapest as they are hard to find with loome, ecu etc

Do you know anything about a M15A conversion? So far biggest problem with it i can see is the mounting as its very different, and im not sure about the gains over the 1.3 g13ba as i cant seem to see anyone else with it which leads me to the conclusion that its not worth doing or that its too hard.

Once again thank you kindly and I look forward to your reply and any further info you might have.

Regards

Ash

[Teracis]

Hey Ash,

As far as I have read (and that's not super far because I quickly decided that an M engine was going to be too expensive for my budget) the M engines, no matter which type, are WAY better than the g13ba as far as engines go.

Anything CAN be done, it's probably more a cost factor with these engines. I have read that the M engines all mate up to the gearbox found in the M13A equipped Jimny models, which are going to be expensive as well and that there's a lot of work required because of all the immobilisation e.t.c.

There's a few people on here who have actually had experience with these engines, I'll wait for them to pipe up with the actual details rather than steering you too far in the wrong direction.

All I know is that the G engines are by far the easiest conversion/replacement, with carby models being the easiest, followed by the EFI G16B Vitara, then the GTI and Baleno Engines.

4age (Toyota), J20 and the M engines require a LOT more work and cost.

Anyhow time to head out, hopefully one of the lads pops up and gives you a better run down of what's required for an M engine in a sierra.

Don't forget that being a 97 model, you're options are limited to engines of 1997 and newer, which takes out the early carby vitaras e.t.c. IIRC

Good Luck

[masterA]

Id definatelly look into the GTi conversion also if i were you

Put aside $1000 for the engine/computer/loom to get all the bits and pieces sorted (water pump and gasket set..depending on the engine condition and what needs to be done to it)

Since it's a coily you don't need to get a surge tank etc so just a fuel pump from a vitara
You'll need to get a barina water housing for $25....thermo fan will set you back $65 and the pipes to the radiator another $65

Now...biggest thing is which engine you get
If you get the MK1 it's going to fairly easy while MK2/3 engines require more work with the dizzy as they are fuel/spark while the MK1 is only fuel (different computer management)

You can get a kit from SuzuSport for $400 or i belive Jonno-racing may be able to help you with a kit for the MK1 (PM him)
I think there are 6 wires to hook up and thats it.....gearbox and engine mounts bolt up without any modification

If you get a MK2/3 engine it's still doable and for about $160 odd to get a Mazda Turbo 323 cap/rotor and modify that (it's in the tech section)

You will need to get the GTi extractor flange cut and you will need to get a set of extractors for the sierra (cut that flange off and weld the GTi one onto the extractors.....you'll need to do this to clear the engine mount as the normal exhaust will foul on the engine mount)

It will still be under the $2K mark depending on your engineering requirements but here in Perth all you do is ring the DPI and register a new engine number as it's a 1.3L engine

Advantage of it is that it has double the power of your current sierra carby donk

Both the 1.6L Balino of the GTi engines come on part for the conversion....just depends what terain you're going to drive....if you like to rev your engines to 7,500rpm all day long then get the GTi or if you prefer the low torque of the 1.6L then get the Balino

Good luck with whatever you decide

[Gwagensteve]

One day every GTi engine will have been revved into oblivion and people will stop carrying on about how they are the bees knees. Can someone please explain why a GTi is a better motor than a Baleno G16? It had 5Kw more when new, but significantly less torque, and the less torque it had is way up in the rev range. Yes, you can gear around the powerband, but all up the Baleno is going to be a better option and much easier to make legal.

A G16 also allows easier access to better gearboxes - Vitara manual, Trimatic and AW-4.

The OP has a 1997 sierra and wants an engine that's able to be mod plated.

A Mk1 GTi isn't going to be easy at all to plate because it's WAY older than the vehicle it's going into. Likewise a 4AGE unless it's a late one like a 20V. I can ring Vicroads and tell them I've swapped one engine number for another but that doesn't mean it's a legal conversion if I'm putting a 1988 engine in a 1997 car.

Steve.

[Rusho]

Bang for buck a 16 valve 1.6 vitara engine is the winner

[ash97zook]

Ok, Im having trouble finding any GTI engines inc loom and ecu in my price range, and from what i can tell its pretty important to rebuild it before you put it in anyway to save troubles down the road..

So that leaves me with a M15A with low ks, ecu and loom and 03 Jimney gear box I can get for just over a grand (but will have to somehow figure out mounting, exhaust manifold, QLD transport, fuel and possibly immobiliser?)

Or vitara engine but looking at over a grand for just the engine alone.. and will the 97 sierra gearbox, transfer, diffs etc stand up to the 1.6 out of a vitara or is this a situation of how long is a peice of string and power is cheap reliability is expensive?

I think my front axel/diff already has issues as it doesnt seem to be turning the front wheels when in 4wd (havnt found the exact cause yet..) and 2nd syncro is starting to go.. and the speedo has stopped working (are sierras always this troublesom?) wondering if I would be better off buying a complete/written /cheap sierra and using engine and keeping the rest for spares .. oh so many descisions .. someone wise and all knowing just tell me what to do? haha I have a list of life questions too if you are interested.. Thanks again everyone for your time..

Regards

Ash

[ash97zook]

Does the 1.6 vitara box fit in my 97 coily? Would half cut vitara be better option then engine alone?

[Rusho]

Vit box would be shit loads better than Sierra. I think you would have to mod the tunnel and make some kind if mounts up for it.

If your drive line is in good condition it should hold the power just fine. Piss the coily transfer off and put a gear driven case from a leafy in, allows fir reduction gears later.

If you get a front cut you will get everything you need for engine conversion as well as power steer, possibly some left over parts to sell for some dollars back.

There are complete vits on here from time to time for $1000-$2000. If you can wait, that would be the best idea I think

[shakes]

if you have the space, it's often more economical to buy a wreck with the motor your after.

Strip the loom while it's in the car so you can see what's what, lots of misc bolts/hoses to use. And with some time/patience you can recoup some cost by selling off some other parts (Dont bank on it just in case)

[atari4x4]

maybe look at buying a junker baleno, there are 2 types of G16 in the baleno, the coil pack version is the one to look for.

[ash97zook]

ok, would i be better of then with a vitara or a sierra? Obviously I would prefer the engine out of the vitara but are any other parts usuable?

And do you know anyone who is wanting to sell a vitara with a fantastic engine and box for $1000? >_<

[ash97zook]

Does anyone know if a 97 x-90 would be of any use .. has auto G16A ..

[Gwagensteve]

an X-90 makes an excellent donor, but the auto is an AW-4 which, whilst an excellent auto, is quite long. This length makes fitting one to a SWB sierra pretty challenging without lengthening the wheelbase. It has been done, but it's hard and a bit compromised.

Steve.

[ash97zook]

Could I use the standard sierra box?

[rwt65]

You might be interested to check this one out
Suzuki Swift M15A engine with wiring and ECU. Will fit Jimny or Sierra
Is on Ebay at the moment complete, the seller also has gearbox to suit.
Engine has done 27000 k's
It is up your way, might be worth some thought
Good luck

[Rusho]

ash97zook wrote:

Could I use the standard sierra box?

Sure can...it's what the BenT kit is used for It's not a bad thing, it's just that the vitara box is stronger an smoother to drive

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, with an adapter plate, but a vitara manual is a better option if you want a manual . With a vitara manual you can retain the vitara flywheel and clutch, which is superior to sierra.

Steve.

[ash97zook]

Ok so I want a g16b or g16a (from vitara, x-90 or swift) with loom ecu and a vitara 5sp manual box.. that way i keep the clutch and fly wheel and get a better box to boot.. it also has the easiest conversion with the best power gain and is the cheapest, correct?

Thank rwt65 thats the m15a conversion I was mentioning before.. I have spoken to the guy about it I am going to need to find a way to mount it though as no one is really sure whats involved in getting it in as far as I can tell also exhaust manifold, engineers certificate, fuel and cooling would need to be addressed as they would be a guess with a g16b/a ...

So those are my options .. narrowing it down .. m15a or g16b/a .. will the sierra tail shaft fit the 03 jimny box? any other issues anyone can fore see?

Thanks, regards

Ash

[Gwagensteve]

You'll need to swap the back 1/2 of the sierra 5 speed gearbox onto the Jimny gearbox to create a hybrid box which has a jimny front 1/2 and sierra back 1/2. The Jimny gearbox has a whack shifter arrangement that isn't at all compatible with a sierra. (Shifter would end up under your elbow)

M engines can be made to work in a sierra, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle. They are considerably harder to wire, as AFAIK they all have immobilisers etc.

Steve.

[ash97zook]

Ok, the M15A comes with loom ecu and ignition barrle and key so wiring might be easier as the key matches up with the engine? I would need a custom made half shaft though and do the half gearbox conversion..

I have found a GTI engine but am courious about how you tell what MK it is ?

And if a gearbox is making noise only when clutch is dis-engauged does that mean its the throw out bearing and is that expensive/hard to fix?

Thanks

Ash

[Gwagensteve]

GTi's are front wheel drive/transverse which is why you need to use sierra engine mounts, sump, oil pickup, flywheel clutch and gearbox to put a GTi in a sierra, along with a right angle distributor drive or Familia GT-X distributor cap, custom radiator top hose arrangement, and custom extractors.

As for an M15, you will need Jimny extractors or manifold, sierra/Jimny/something engine mounts, A Jimny gearbox, clutch and flywheel, thermo fan or Jimny water pump (or something?) Water piping? Inlet manifold what's the M15 out of? some of the inlet manifolds I've seen on M motors won't clear the bonnet, whilst others may interfere with the steering shaft. There's masses of stuff to sort on top of a G16 conversion, and there's far fewer conversions into a sierra to gain knowledge from.

Both the GTi and M15 conversion leave you with a sierra/jimny flywheel, clutch and gearbox. I think that's a silly idea. If you wanted an auto, (which you do, even if you don't know it yet) the M motor limits you to a Jimny auto, which are $$$$$$$ and too small even for a Jimny.

I think the real cost of any engine conversion is far higher than the apparent cost of buying the engine and gearbox, especially when you dip into uncommon conversions like an M series motor.

Steve.

[ash97zook]

well said. Totally agree thats why Im just trying to gather as much info as possible from as many people as possible to get an idea of what I need to do and spend.. Seems to be a safe bet to budget it out and double it at this stage..


Does anyone know how to tell what Mk this gti engine would be, is it in the engine number or is there any way of telling.. also the seller says it has all electrics but as its located over as 1000ks away so I cant go look at it so what specific questions should i double check as i am aware I need the coil and ECM (is ecm same as ECU)?? And whats the cost involved in replacing basics while engine is out (timing+gaskets?)


If it was easy everyone would do it and it wouldnt be worth doing

[ash97zook]

this is a picture of the engine..

[Teracis]

Have a look on www.pickles.com.au and manheim e.t.c. you might even find a good bargain like I just got (whole baleno for $800 with 83000km on the clock)

Will definitely be easier than getting something from 1000km away and not knowing much about it.

Might take a while to find one but it's worth waiting and searching.

[Gwagensteve]

er, ash, that's not a GTi engine. It's a SOHC 16V engine, but I'm struggling to work out what it's from (Early SWB GV?) as it looks to have a right angle distributor, RWD coolant pipe locations, but a forward facing inlet manifold, similar to Baleno.

There's many, many variants of G16B. It's going to be very difficult to get a computer to suit, especially as it's not clear what car it is from, and even more so if my hunch is correct and it is from an early SWB GV - they are rare as rocking horse shit. You'd end up having to buy manifolds, engine loom and computer from another G16B just to get a setup you know will match.

Steve.

[ash97zook]

ok thanks steve.. i knew you genius's would know what to do!!

[masterA]

Gwagensteve wrote:

One day every GTi engine will have been revved into oblivion and people will stop carrying on about how they are the bees knees. Can someone please explain why a GTi is a better motor than a Baleno G16? It had 5Kw more when new, but significantly less torque, and the less torque it had is way up in the rev range. Yes, you can gear around the powerband, but all up the Baleno is going to be a better option and much easier to make legal.

A G16 also allows easier access to better gearboxes - Vitara manual, Trimatic and AW-4.

The OP has a 1997 sierra and wants an engine that's able to be mod plated.

A Mk1 GTi isn't going to be easy at all to plate because it's WAY older than the vehicle it's going into. Likewise a 4AGE unless it's a late one like a 20V. I can ring Vicroads and tell them I've swapped one engine number for another but that doesn't mean it's a legal conversion if I'm putting a 1988 engine in a 1997 car.

Steve.

Just a personal preference mate

If you read my post i wrote.....

Both the 1.6L Balino of the GTi engines come on part for the conversion....just depends what terain you're going to drive....if you like to rev your engines to 7,500rpm all day long then get the GTi or if you prefer the low torque of the 1.6L then get the Balino

Good luck with whatever you decide

We all have different beliefs and im not saying that one is better than the other....i just gave him another option to think about

And here in Perth....all you need to do is ring the DPI and change the engine number as you are not changing the displacement of the engine (or putting a turbo) and you are also putting a EFI engine to a vehicle that was carby so it meets all the emission (we do not have the same rules that apply over East and i know of 2 people that have done this already)