[gjb977]

G'Day,

Just a couple of questions...

Is there any advantage one has over the other ? Best bang per buck?

And what price would I expect to pay for either ? (with low kms)

Thanks in advance...

Guy

[steak_knife]

M16 out of a what???

Cause the swift sport m16 WILL need it's or a better ecu....

[gjb977]

steak_knife wrote:

M16 out of a what???

Cause the swift sport m16 WILL need it's or a better ecu....

I don't know. So you can't use the Jimny ECU ? I just "sort of" remember reading what people have done and the common like is that it's almost "plug & play" (to someone who knows what they are doing - I won't be doing it)

Is the m18 an easier job ?

[royce]

M15 from a swift is the easy works well conversion for the jimny

[steak_knife]

royce wrote:

M15 from a swift is the easy works well conversion for the jimny

& go very well in deed

I & suzuki's top tech here in Qld are of the opinion that a M18 will run lean on a jim ecu..

[gjb977]

steak_knife wrote:

royce wrote:

M15 from a swift is the easy works well conversion for the jimny

& go very well in deed

I & suzuki's top tech here in Qld are of the opinion that a M18 will run lean on a jim ecu..

Thanks for info...

m15 looks like the way I'll go...soon'ish.

[steak_knife]

There's also a metric f*#k load of em, the 16's & 18's are not as commen.

Think of all the youn girl's on P's righting the thing's off...

[JrZook]

steak_knife wrote:

I & suzuki's top tech here in Qld are of the opinion that a M18 will run lean on a jim ecu..

I wonder if a few psi extra in the fuel rail would help

[MrRocky]

bugger all, the thing with early jap cars was playing with the air temp sender and the coolant temp sender to make them run abit richer however more modern type ecu's may make this impossible

[steak_knife]

I did bring that up in our many conversation's, but he doubted it would last long term...

The ole 2 socket's in a vise squish the reg fuel pressure upgrade....

[JrZook]

Hurmmmm so if stock rail pressure is say 40psi and we crank it to say 50psi and for example 180cc/min injectors @40psi we would get:

sqrt(50/40)*180 = 201cc/min

11% increase in fueling across the board at 10psi rail pressure increase. That's not that in-significant!

Should help abit

[steak_knife]

If I had the coin spare I'd be willing to try it..

You smart prick's shit me...

[monley]

I have driven a m18a..... it's powerful to say the least

[steak_knife]

monkey wrote:

I have driven a m18a..... it's powerful to say the least

Would love to put one in Sully....

[monley]

steak_knife wrote:

monkey wrote:

I have driven a m18a..... it's powerful to say the least

Would love to put one in Sully....

[steak_knife]

monkey wrote:

steak_knife wrote:

monkey wrote:

I have driven a m18a..... it's powerful to say the least

Would love to put one in Sully....

For towing a trailer of cause, not cause I like power...

[MrRocky]

injectors at 100% duty cycle isnt what you'd call ideal and whilst it may look like it would do the job on paper the reality is 11% more fuel in throughout the rev range and under different conditions is very optimistic.
Ive spent whole days on the dyno with various turbo cars upping the pressure with rising rate regulators and you get a very minimal benifit.

[harvs]

Yep and you got to have a fuel pump that will deliver the higher fuel pressure and rate...

By the time you're doing that you may as well be putting on an aftermarket computer. But that's just my thoughts. I hate work arounds in this department, they just drive me up the wall.

[steak_knife]

But we are not chasing HP, just want it to go as it should...

[steak_knife]

& last as it should...

[JrZook]

MrRocky wrote:

injectors at 100% duty cycle isnt what you'd call ideal and whilst it may look like it would do the job on paper the reality is 11% more fuel in throughout the rev range and under different conditions is very optimistic.
Ive spent whole days on the dyno with various turbo cars upping the pressure with rising rate regulators and you get a very minimal benifit.

Huh?

Didn't say anything about changing the duty cycle nor having the injectors at max D.C. The stock m13 ECU will not be running them at max, probs about 80%. Rasing the fuel pressure does not alter the DC, it alters the flow by simple equation above.

If the injector is open for lets say 10ms at it's flow rated pressure, using the example of 40psi then it will deliver 0.030cc of fuel. At 50psi the same injector for the same DC time period will deliver 0.033cc of fuel or roughly 11% more.

Yes if you up the pressure even more, the new flow rate will start to veer off the previous equation but it will still be an approximate flow value. This is not a turbo motor and it was just a very very simple suggestion if someone finds that their m18 indeed runs too lean on the m13ecu it will defiantly help without radically changing other bits and pieces.

Another note, stock fuel pumps are capable of 70-90psi. This is the pressure they run at to be reduced by the regulator. The pump will not be under more stress etc. They usually also have a built in bypass valve which limits the pressure to it's maximum in case of a kinked fuel line etc.

[MrRocky]

i still reckon 11% on paper wont match up in a real world tests
theres nothing to say the computer will allow any discrepency in sensors or pressure anyway, new ecu's suck balls.

[steak_knife]

MrRocky wrote:

i still reckon 11% on paper wont match up in a real world tests
theres nothing to say the computer will allow any discrepency in sensors or pressure anyway, new ecu's suck balls.

So your saying a 1.3 ecu should run a 1.8 no worry's with no long term effect's???

Oh, & I want a new ecu all of a sudden...

[JrZook]

drewmouli wrote:

Go the M18 for sure! ive had mine about a month now, has enough power to get over any dune and pull countless 4x4s out and down the beach! Easy to do and cheap. and driving gently on city/country i get the same 10L per 100 that the M13 gave me. Plus being able to sit at 120 up hills the the AC on is magical.

Maybe this is also worth mentioning in this thread. Apparent issues with m13ecu on m18

drewmouli wrote:

No Worries, If I was doing the conversion again i would make sure to find an M18 ECU at the same time. Im still running my M13 ECU and it every now and then stuffs up fuel mixture on take off and goes a bit slow for the first 1000rpm above idle and then takes off. Also it throws an engine light here and there when it thinks its running too rich. Hit me up if you have any questions about them.

[monley]

drewmouli wrote:

There should really be a tech thread about it I recon. Needs to be written out nice and clearly though, its brought up a fair bit on here about M18/ M16 /M15 conversions. I'de write something up if asked, Just an idea. Sorry if ive trodden on anyone's feet.

Do a write up

[Zapnologica]

Out of interest I am running m18a motor with m18a injectors on m13a ecu with no issues. I do believe the afr could be better. It over fuels slightly in the lower rpm and under fuels in the higher rpm..

But no issues at all.

[fordem]

Zapnologica wrote:

Out of interest I am running m18a motor with m18a injectors on m13a ecu with no issues. I do believe the afr could be better. It over fuels slightly in the lower rpm and under fuels in the higher rpm..

But no issues at all.

I can't help but be amused - you tell us there are no issues, and then you go on to list one (or is that two) - OBVIOUSLY - if it is over fueling at low rpm, and under fueling at high rpm - there IS an issue.

Over fuelling at low rpm would suggest the injectors are too large - OR - the ECU cannot reduce the duty cycle enough to further reduce the fuel, under fuelling at high rpm would suggest inadequate fuel flow from the pump, or perhaps a clogged filter. It could also mean that the injectors are too small, but, if since it's the same injector that's over fuelling at low rpm, I'd say that's unlikely.

[Gwagensteve]

fordem wrote:

I can't help but be amused - you tell us there are no issues, and then you go on to list one (or is that two) - OBVIOUSLY - if it is over fueling at low rpm, and under fueling at high rpm - there IS an issue.

Over fuelling at low rpm would suggest the injectors are too large - OR - the ECU cannot reduce the duty cycle enough to further reduce the fuel, under fuelling at high rpm would suggest inadequate fuel flow from the pump, or perhaps a clogged filter. It could also mean that the injectors are too small, but, if since it's the same injector that's over fuelling at low rpm, I'd say that's unlikely.

I started typing out a response to this with some possible causes but gave up - its pointless. What's likely to be wrong about an M13 ECU running an M18? It IS what's wrong. Unfortunately the computers are robust enough it will run at all, which is why most of these half baked M swaps exist.

[Brenno]

could you swap computer as well?