[SJ413]

Hi all was hoping someone could help me out with some engine trouble i've got. Decided to go for a bit of a play last night but before i got to the track the engine started to lose power to the point that when i pushed the peddle it just died. I tried starting it back up but it would only run for 20 seconds at best then turn off. When I got back home I parked on level ground and tried turning it over and it ran really rough but it ran.
I was thinking it could be the fuel pump but not sure. I had a little look at the fuel pump and noticed that there is a hose connection at the back pointing towards the gearbox, should there be a hose on it?
Cheers Matt

[magnat]

Lets go through the Suspect list

1. Fuel Filter

2. Leads may have broken down

3. Plugs are dirty...

If It was the fuel pump itself.. then I am pretty sure fuel delivery would be very short...

[Damo]

SJ413 wrote:

I had a little look at the fuel pump and noticed that there is a hose connection at the back pointing towards the gearbox, should there be a hose on it?
Cheers Matt

I'm pretty sure that's a breather, and it's supposed to be like that.

[SJ413]

1. Fuel Filter.....new did a big service 3000km ago

2. Leads may have broken down.....new only 3 months old

3. Plugs are dirty.....new replaced with the leads

ok so its a breather outlet cool.

[SJ413]

when it broke down it was on a hill....if that helps

[Rapson]

Had the same thing happen to me a while back, turned out to be muck in the fuel filter. Replaced filter and cleaned out carbie and she ran like new.

[SJ413]

I mite give that a go, was just thinking about it and recently i went up to mansfield (got to drive through some snow )and had to use the reserve fuel in the jerry could of had some gunk in that.

[keechox]

id drain the carby, i had same problem, turned out a bit of dirt had blocked up the power jet in the carby. turns out some little smartarse had poked rocks and stick down the fuel filler after i lost my fuel cap

[SJ413]

Think i finally sorted out the problem, fuel filter was not looking the best and the carbie was pritty black from carbon deposites. So i replaced the fuel filter and cleaned the carbie and volla the engine came back to life.

But now i have a new problem , when idling it is only running three cylinders but when the revs come up it is back on four. Am i right to think it could be the ignition coil and maybe the dissy cap?

[Scrawny]

Do check the coil and cap but are you sure it's only running on 3 or is it just running rough? It could now have a blockage in the idle circuit of the carby.

[SJ413]

When the revs get over about 1200rpm it runs smoth and all four cylinders are working. When it's ideling there is a miss fire on the number 2 cylinder.

[Scrawny]

It's definitely #2? If you pull the lead off the plug while it's running does it change at all? It could be a faulty lead or plug or the dizzy cap. Not likely to be the coil if it only affects one cylinder


The 'hose' connection at the back of the fuel pump should just be a blank too

[SJ413]

yep it's number two. Pulled the lead off and there was no change in the idel. But there is enough spark from the lead to get it to fire when higher up in the rmp's.
So should i just be looking at the dissie cap?

[Scrawny]

Pull the dizzy cap off and check the contacts. They get a bit carboned up after a while. You might even just want to replace cap and rotor and be done with it. This is just a standard carby 1.3 isn't it? Did it arc at all when you pulled the lead off?

[SJ413]

yeah it's a standard 1.3l carbie. Yeah it did arc when the lead was off.

[mrcurlywhirly]

Hi Mate,

Try the process of elimination.

Pull the #2 plug and switch it with #1 cylinder plug, if the fault follows it replace it (or the set - they are pretty cheap). If it doesnt, then remove the #2 HD lead from the distributor cap and switch with #1 (at both ends obviously!), if the fault doesnt follow it then it may be build up inside the distributor cap. Definitely sounds electrical, unlikely to be carb related on a single cylinder.

NB - Just read your full post - I would switch plugs and leads anyway to troubleshoot it properly.. even new plugs can play up. A little motor shaking about trying to idle on dirty fuel isnt good for electrical contacts..

Cheers,
MrC

[andrewa]

hey sj413. i had the same problem on thursday arvo. zook would die going up any hill, even with foot flat & changing down gears. now have new leads & fuel filter & seems to running ok now. will replace plugs & clean carby just in case.

[SJ413]

Ok an update on the engine problem. Now since all this has happend i have
1 changed fuel filter, was pritty grotty anyway
2 checked fuel pump, pump is working fine
3 cleaned carbie, i'm no mech. but it seams to be fine
3 changed dissy cap and rotor button, both where on there last legs
4 changed coil, couldn't go past a HD one for $20
5 checked to see if spark is getting to cyl., yes its getting there i know cause i got zapped!
6 Tried changing leads around, did sod all
7 Took head off and checked to see if tappets were sticking, no but i will need to adjust when i get a feller set
8 checked vaccum hoses and all are ok

Since i have done all this the problem is still there but not all the time, sometimes when i start it it will only run on the 3 cyl. but when i'm getting up to speed it's back on 4. The problem will still be there when i come to a stop even when the engine is warm.
But sometimes i will start it up and the problem will not be there at all.

[royce]

pull that plug and clean the crap out of its insulator

check for signs of cross firing on the leads too (real small black marks ont eh leads)

[SJ413]

royce wrote:

pull that plug and clean the crap out of its insulator

check for signs of cross firing on the leads too (real small black marks ont eh leads)

Ok i'll give that a go after work. It's the #2 cyl. that is playing up and it is the only cyl. to have a clean plug, but i'll clean them all up and see if that helps. Cheers Matt

Edit: I've just been doing some web searching and am now wondering if this mite help

'One more carb fact: if your idle speed mysteriously goes up and down without any apparent cause, try disconnecting the idle-up solenoid wire. It's the green plug at the front of the engine, just above the water pump
The idle-up solenoid is supposed to make the engine rev when there's an electrical load on the alternator. On some vehicles, the system becomes intermittent and the idle speed will go up and down (cycling) by itself. Disconnecting this plug will disable the solenoid and solve the problem. Just be sure to set your hot idle speed a bit high, and everything should work fine.'

[royce]

if the plugs clean it might not be firing, try it in another cylinder

the idle up never works anyway so dont worry too much about that

[SJ413]

Ok tried swapping plugs around last night and also the leads, and nothing changed. So then i tried cleaning the carbie agian and there was an improvment, so im now strating to think that maybe i have a carbie issue. Not sure if that will explain the #2 cyl. not fireing on idel or not, but i do think it could explain the erratic pore idel problem.

[mrcurlywhirly]

Mate.... you have switched the plugs, what did the #2 plug look like compared to #1? normal is brownish and dry, not good is wet and black... if there is a coating on the plug it could indicate either ring or stem seal problems. I would run a compression test on the four cylinders if i were you, and check for any variation in readings. Does the engine feel smooth under load up hills etc?
The other thing is the ht cable routing, you would hear the ticking it if it were grounding while idling, unlikely though i have seen it..

I dont know how fuel delivery can affect 1 cylinder only, unless you have fuel injected it

Cheers,
MrC

[spudd]

dizzy?

[SJ413]

mrcurlywhirly wrote:

Mate.... you have switched the plugs, what did the #2 plug look like compared to #1? normal is brownish and dry, not good is wet and black... if there is a coating on the plug it could indicate either ring or stem seal problems. I would run a compression test on the four cylinders if i were you, and check for any variation in readings. Does the engine feel smooth under load up hills etc?
The other thing is the ht cable routing, you would hear the ticking it if it were grounding while idling, unlikely though i have seen it..

I dont know how fuel delivery can affect 1 cylinder only, unless you have fuel injected it

Cheers,
MrC

The plugs were brownish/black and dry, there was a small coating on the 3 plugs that were in chambers that were firing properly, the plug that was in #2 was much cleaner. I forgot to mention that i have done a compresion test when trying to diagnose the problem. All cyl. had the same reading give or take 5psi. The engine was just rebuilt about 8000km ago.
The engine does seam smooth under load and chugging uphill. There seams to be a bit of hesitation when cruising on flat road or going down hill.

Spudd, the dissy has been looked at and the cap and rotor have been changed.

[mrcurlywhirly]

Hi sj413,

Looks like your thread has hit the brick wall.
Trace the problem yet? Sounds like a migraine to me..

Correct any of this if its wrong...

It misses on cyl#2 when idling.
It hesitates when cruising under little load - on the flat.
It seems to improve with carb spray

Its a rebuild with 8000ks
3 month old plugs
new ht leads
new distributor cap
new button
new coil
good compression
switched leads and plugs with no difference

OK - Did it have any problem before it had what you thought was dirty fuel in it? You said initially it lost power and when you got it home it would idle - but very roughly.

One very obvious thing that hasnt been mentioned - is the timing correct? whack a timing light on #1 and check it is idling at 10 degrees btdc at idle speed (800rpm). If you are getting hesitiation until the revs build up it may be the culprit...

More likely is (as you had a problem with the carb and dirty fuel) - the mixture may be too rich to allow it to idle smoothly. I cannot see why this would only be apparent on 1 cylinder... worth checking out anyway, whats the exhaust look like? blacker than normal when you rev it?

I guess the only other possibility is a vacuum leak, some 1.3's have a vacuum hose between the inlet manifold and a diaghram on the side of the ditributor. If it leaks it can seriously affect the way the motor runs, ignition advance - idle - again it should affect everything, i'm not familiar with your 1.3, check for a circular can on the side of the distributor body - with a hose hanging out of it.

The only other things i can think of that would cause only #2 to play up are either an electrical fault (which you seem to have ruled out) or a mechanical problem: either poor compression or a major mechanical issue - ie bent inlet valve. The last thing would be a vacuum leak OR an obstruction in the inlet manifold or port (cant say i have ever seen that..), this would be a pita to check and probably a waste of time.

All this probably leads back to the first question - was everything running perfectly before the fuel incident? if the motor is only 8000ks old have you still got any warranty on it? maybe it would pay to contact the workshop that rebuilt it to save yourself some grief.

Cheers,
MrC

[mrcurlywhirly]

...one more useful link if it IS carb related:
http://nbs4x4club.com/forum/index.php?topic=10075.0

Covers it pretty well, though that is not a single cyl problem...

[mrcurlywhirly]

...one more useful link if it IS carb related:
http://nbs4x4club.com/forum/index.php?topic=10075.0

Covers it pretty well, though that is not a single cyl problem...

[SJ413]

mrcurlywhirly wrote:

Hi sj413,

Looks like your thread has hit the brick wall.
Trace the problem yet? Sounds like a migraine to me..

Correct any of this if its wrong...

It misses on cyl#2 when idling.
It hesitates when cruising under little load - on the flat.
It seems to improve with carb spray

Its a rebuild with 8000ks
3 month old plugs
new ht leads
new distributor cap
new button
new coil
good compression
switched leads and plugs with no difference

OK - Did it have any problem before it had what you thought was dirty fuel in it? You said initially it lost power and when you got it home it would idle - but very roughly.

One very obvious thing that hasnt been mentioned - is the timing correct? whack a timing light on #1 and check it is idling at 10 degrees btdc at idle speed (800rpm). If you are getting hesitiation until the revs build up it may be the culprit...

More likely is (as you had a problem with the carb and dirty fuel) - the mixture may be too rich to allow it to idle smoothly. I cannot see why this would only be apparent on 1 cylinder... worth checking out anyway, whats the exhaust look like? blacker than normal when you rev it?

I guess the only other possibility is a vacuum leak, some 1.3's have a vacuum hose between the inlet manifold and a diaghram on the side of the ditributor. If it leaks it can seriously affect the way the motor runs, ignition advance - idle - again it should affect everything, i'm not familiar with your 1.3, check for a circular can on the side of the distributor body - with a hose hanging out of it.

The only other things i can think of that would cause only #2 to play up are either an electrical fault (which you seem to have ruled out) or a mechanical problem: either poor compression or a major mechanical issue - ie bent inlet valve. The last thing would be a vacuum leak OR an obstruction in the inlet manifold or port (cant say i have ever seen that..), this would be a pita to check and probably a waste of time.

All this probably leads back to the first question - was everything running perfectly before the fuel incident? if the motor is only 8000ks old have you still got any warranty on it? maybe it would pay to contact the workshop that rebuilt it to save yourself some grief.

Cheers,
MrC

Pritty much all that you have said is or has happend. The miss fire has progressed now to the point where it will sometimes idel at only 100-200rpm and just two cyl. are firing (sounds like dads old massy fergison now)as of yet havn't checked which two cyl. it is, But it will go back to four cyl further up the rpm range. I will have to check the timing, and i will re check the vacuum lines.
I cant really go to the place that rebuilt the motor as it was me and my mate who is a mech. And i have ruled out his work because he is more pedantic than me!!

If i cant sort out the problem it mite be time to convince the wife that i need to upgrade the motor!!
Cheers Matt

[SJ413]

Bit of an update on my probs. Gave up on sorting out my engine probs. myself so pulled the engine apart and sent the head to someone to look at. Turns out most of the parts had worn well outside of their wear limit so its all getting replaced. I've also decided that i might as well get the carbie looked at too & while i'm at it i'll drop the tank out, flush and clean it & also remove the dint in the tank.