[scott12]

Thanks all for your input.

ajsr wrote:

whats on the rhs of the fan?

Drivers side has A/C pipes and sender which can't be moved easily, this leaves passenger side as the only possible spot.

Would have liked all the radiators (engine, A/C & transmission) to be in a block with each other so that the air flow is ducted a bit more from the engine fan, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen....

youda wrote:

as long as it is secure it should be fine, if you are using it to compliment the existing cooler in the radiator (a good idea) make sure you use good quality hoses as high temps turn some hoses to jelly.

I'm hoping that the hoses supplied in the Davies Craig or PWR kits would be the right type ?

The davies craig 6 cyl kit will fit in the apature on passenger's side, will need to make a lil bracket to suspend from the top cross member but that looks far easier than moving the existing equipment on the car.

I'm not keen on a cooler from the wrecker, might have contaminants in it which may harm the transmission. The kits aren't really that expensive - approx $120 at Supercheap at normal everyday price.

[Gwagensteve]

scott12 wrote:

I'm not keen on a cooler from the wrecker, might have contaminants in it which may harm the transmission. The kits aren't really that expensive - approx $120 at Supercheap at normal everyday price.

I was more directing the comments about dumpster diving for a cooler at Christover, who has a very limited budget. In his position, I'd spend the money on a temp gauge and wrecker scrounge a cooler rather than blow all the money on a cooler and have no money for a gauge.

Steve.

[scott12]

Gwagensteve wrote:

... I'd be fitting a temp gauge, possibly even before you fit an additional cooler. It's one thing to *think* the auto is getting hot, quite another to know

Watching Greg's gauge has shown that the auto never gets hotter than on the highway on longish hills. You'd think it would be crawling, but it's not. It's something to consider with regard to your gearing and load - does the converter lock at cruise? If the converter can't lock because there's too much load, then you will be getting the auto much hotter than intended.


Steve.

This is a good point Steve, so from Greg's experience perhaps there is no need for an extra oil to air cooler ?


I will be going to Frazer in December, I expect there will be a bit of slow going in a few inland sections, do you think that would be a situation where the converter will be slipping ?

Has anyone actually experienced overtemp problems with their GV auto transmission ? if so, in what type of service ?

Regards
Scott

[Gwagensteve]

Greg's car is running a Jimny auto in a sierra, so it only has a "aftermarket" cooler - it's a very large PWR item.

Auto has never exceeded 105? on the gauge AFAIK. The auto has been flawless for over 5 years. I think it had 60K on it before Greg got it, and it's done nothing but hard off road driving since. (Not many km's but lots of crawling)

GV's run an AW-4 - easily twice as strong as a Jimny auto. I wouldn't be worried.

Steve.

[Gwagensteve]

AZ gremlins doublepost.

[youda]

The main point of the cooler is to extend the autos life, not make it perform better now. for instance you could do some really hard driving through sand dunes and the auto will (or should perform flawlessly). however elivated temperatures achieved during this driving will dramatically shorten the life of the auto.

1. for instance a the life expectancy of a well looked after highway auto may average around 240,000km.
2. an auto with a hard life could be as low as 100,000km (worse if really abused).
for situation 2 a transmission cooler will add valuable milage to the life of the auto with the hard life. as it is high temps that do most of the damage a good cooler can really make a differance. If the stock cooler is pretty poor than a reasonable cooler (dosent have to be masive i.e. 30 by 20cm would do) mounted after but in series with the stock cooler in radiator is all thats needed.

(dont quote me on these distances im just trying to make the point).

[fordem]

This has been a very educational thread for me - although I've driven automatics for decades, I've never owned one until this year, when I picked up a used Mitsubishi Pajero iO with an Aisin-Warner AW4 transmission.

The vehicle has some sort of transmission temperature sensing and will flash a warning light on the dash if it overheats, and I was wondering how likely this was to happen and if an additional cooler was a good idea (it has the conventional cooler in the bottom of the radiator).

The question I have, since you guys are talking about fitting a temperature gauge, is where would be the best place for it - in the line to to the cooler or in the return line or somewhere else?

Also what sort of temperatures should I be expecting during normal operation?

[christover1]

My research suggests a temp guage is best on the out line,
close to the auto box,
before its had any cooling.

But I no expert.

[christover1]

http://www.digi-panel.com/digidevicesweb/trannyoil.htm

[fordem]

Thanks much for the link - that gauge panel is a nice idea - but on the webpage they slam analogue gauges for being imprecise & non-linear and completely ignore the fact that their "precise" gauges rely on analogue sensors to function, and are therefore equally imprecise and non-linear.

Looking at the FSM for the iO, the temp sensor seems to sit in the oil pan, just above the gasket flange - I'll slide under and take a look tomorrow when it's daylight.

Manual shows the temp sensors transfers on at 147*C and off at 127*C

[scott12]

youda wrote:

The main point of the cooler is to extend the autos life, not make it perform better now. for instance you could do some really hard driving through sand dunes and the auto will (or should perform flawlessly). however elivated temperatures achieved during this driving will dramatically shorten the life of the auto.

1. for instance a the life expectancy of a well looked after highway auto may average around 240,000km.
2. an auto with a hard life could be as low as 100,000km (worse if really abused).
for situation 2 a transmission cooler will add valuable milage to the life of the auto with the hard life. as it is high temps that do most of the damage a good cooler can really make a differance. If the stock cooler is pretty poor than a reasonable cooler (dosent have to be masive i.e. 30 by 20cm would do) mounted after but in series with the stock cooler in radiator is all thats needed.

(dont quote me on these distances im just trying to make the point).

Thanks Y, this is fair enough, I can see your point.

In this setup, perhaps the engine temp (for which I already have a gauge) will tell me to stop if there is any problem too.

Think i'll just fit an oil to air trans cooler in series with (and after) the radiator trans cooler and let engine temp gauge guide me on service duty.

Regards
Scott

[christover1]

scanned this page from my Vitara owners manual

[christover1]

I will be getting an extra cooler.
$23 at wreckers, or $30 with warrantee.
Assuming I can find a good one.
Or $70 - $100 off ebay for a kit.
Or local auto shop, $85 - $110 for a kit.

Line size is quite small on the vit,
so finding a matching cooler size may be hard, new or used

[scott12]

christover1 wrote:

I will be getting an extra cooler.
$23 at wreckers, or $30 with warrantee.
Assuming I can find a good one.
Or $70 - $100 off ebay for a kit.
Or local auto shop, $85 - $110 for a kit.

Line size is quite small on the vit,
so finding a matching cooler size may be hard, new or used

Thanks C for the scanned excerpt, gonna have a go installing it on Sunday.

The lines are 5/16" (8mm).

Davies Craig part No.686 has the correct size lines and cooler but is more expensive than their part No.677 which has the same cooler but with 3/8" lines.

I will probably get the 677 kit and make a 5/16" to 3/8" adaptor (or buy an adaptor if they are readily available at a good price).

Bigger lines = less pressure drop and greater volume (for that section at least).

Davies Craig advertise that they are pressure tested to 150 psi, the PWR on ebay is advertised as pressure tested to 80 psi, I dunno what pressure the auto cooling circuit operates at but I'm inclined to go for the Davies Craig.

Thanks for all your input, will post pics when time allows.

Regards
Scott

[Gwagensteve]

PWR are very high quality products. They would be getting my money well before Davies, Craig.

Steve.

[royce]

christover1 wrote:

I will be getting an extra cooler.
$23 at wreckers, or $30 with warrantee.
Assuming I can find a good one.
Or $70 - $100 off ebay for a kit.
Or local auto shop, $85 - $110 for a kit.

Line size is quite small on the vit,
so finding a matching cooler size may be hard, new or used

make sure you get a cooler off something that is still a sealed system and you can see the oil is not ruined

coolers are great filters, they catch all sorts of gunk that could well end up in your gearbox

[christover1]

royce wrote:

christover1 wrote:

I will be getting an extra cooler.
$23 at wreckers, or $30 with warrantee.
Assuming I can find a good one.
Or $70 - $100 off ebay for a kit.
Or local auto shop, $85 - $110 for a kit.

Line size is quite small on the vit,
so finding a matching cooler size may be hard, new or used

make sure you get a cooler off something that is still a sealed system and you can see the oil is not ruined

coolers are great filters, they catch all sorts of gunk that could well end up in your gearbox

Good point,
I doubt I will bother with wreckers now,
as I am finding too many new ones at good prices.

[shep]

i want to stick a cooler on the wifes gv and also on my sierra when the auto is in.

can ya go to big? the biggest one in my local parts shop is 320x430mm and should fit both cars.

when i cut the hard line should i flare the ends of the line? is there much pressure in the line
when running?

[christover1]

You can only go too big in very cold climates.
Don't think that will be your problem.
But too big could block a bit of air flow.
I didn't need to cut any hard lines,
I just used rubber lines.
If you cut, flaring or similar would be wise,
is under a fair amount of pressure.

This is what I gleaned from my research,
not a experts view.

[christover1]

PS I also learned "stacked plate" type coolers are best for avoiding debris damage, and for good cooling.

[fordem]

I was in the US recently and as I do on most such trips I picked up a couple of 4WD magazines.

One of these contained an article on auto tranny coolers and what caught my eye was that it recommended the additional cooler be fitted upstream from the factory fitted cooler in the radiator - which is the opposite of what's being suggested here.

The reason given for that recommendation is that the excess heat is dumped before it gets to the radiator and as such is not transferred to the engine cooling system.

What's the reason you guys suggest it go downstream?

[christover1]

It is recommended that way, by most makers and sellers.
As trans oil needs a bit of warming up to be at its best.
Especially in colder climates.

But before radiator makes sense to me, with that logic.

My final decision was to bypass radiator cooler,
for the reasons of risk of coolant getting into transmission,
if cooling pipe cracks,
and to remove unwanted heat from trans warming up radiator,
and radiator heat putting more heat into trans..

I been putting IR gun all over transmission, cooler and lines.
So far trans has been 5-15*C cooler than engine,
and reaches running temp real quick.

[fordem]

The article didn't mention it, but what I was thinking was that with the additional cooler before the the radiator, if there was any possibility of 'over cooling', the radiator would at least bring it back to engine temperature.

If it's after the radiator, you get a "two fold" problem - additional heat in the engine and then you run the tranny colder than it should be.

[christover1]

That makes sense, too.
Guess we need some thermo fluid dynamics experts.

I will live with it, keep an eye on it, and put a trans temp guage on.

I can easily replumb rad cooler if needed.
I blocked outlet and inlet to keep dirt out, just in case.

By mounting trans cooler to the radiator, I am still getting a bit of warming going on.

[youda]

As trans oil needs a bit of warming up to be at its best.
Especially in colder climates.
idle warms it up enough, once running it can never have "too cool" a tranny fluid (dont take that too literally) i think you get the idea.

My final decision was to bypass radiator cooler,
for the reasons of risk of coolant getting into transmission,
if cooling pipe cracks,
this part is very valid and is often a really good idea with poor or old radiators just make sure you use a large tranny oil cooler.

I been putting IR gun all over transmission, cooler and lines.
So far trans has been 5-15*C cooler than engine,
and reaches running temp real quick.
have you considered this is because car is under no load and therefore runs at slightly lower temps than motor. remember that the reason you put an aftermarket cooler in is to prolong life under load not under light driving around town.

[christover1]

I will be fitting a trans oil temp guage as soon as possible.
Certainly before towing camper anywhere.
That will give a better idea.
After a day of wheeling, mixed slow crawling and fast dirt,
trans was around 65 - 70 at the oil pan..
But that is static at idle, after a mild bit.

Have a proper working fan hub now, so things could change.

[scott12]

The fitting instructions on my kit advised to put the additional cooler between the outlet of existing radiator cooler and the return to the G-box.

The heat loss from the additional cooler will be somewhat proportional (inversely) to the temperature of the air flowing through it, so I reckon where it is placed would depend on the climate -

I can see the overcooling issue a possibility in sub zero climates, but for me in QLD its probably better as the instructions advised.

The instructions also note that if the existing radiator cooler is to be removed from the circuit altogether, that a cooler "one or two sizes larger will be required".

Regards
Scott

[scott12]

P.S.

Is there any possibility that how particular articles are worded is creating confusion ?

e.g. Some articles suggest that the additional cooler should be "mounted infront of the radiator", without referencing whether they are talking about position in relation to airflow or to position in relation to the oil circuit.

Regards
Scott

[steak_knife]

scott12 wrote:

P.S.

Is there any possibility that how particular articles are worded is creating confusion ?

e.g. Some articles suggest that the additional cooler should be "mounted infront of the radiator", without referencing whether they are talking about position in relation to airflow or to position in relation to the oil circuit.

Regards
Scott

Nice and close to the radiator, or you are creating a disturbance in air flow to the radiator..

The more surface area the better cooling you will have through the cooler.

[scott12]

steak_knife wrote:

scott12 wrote:

P.S.

Is there any possibility that how particular articles are worded is creating confusion ?

e.g. Some articles suggest that the additional cooler should be "mounted infront of the radiator", without referencing whether they are talking about position in relation to airflow or to position in relation to the oil circuit.

Regards
Scott

Nice and close to the radiator, or you are creating a disturbance in air flow to the radiator..

The more surface area the better cooling you will have through the cooler.

Position in relation to Airflow -
Yes I think we all agree on the optimum position in relation to airflow, in that the tranny cooler should be infront of the exisiting coolers for maximum cooling of the ATF, unfortunately putting a cooler "nice and close to the radiator" is difficult to achieve on a GV without lots of mods (i.e. moving the entire radiator assembly toward the engine and modifying all the AC pipes / cooling hoses) or removing the air con condensor to make room - niether of these are gonna happen....

This really only leaves two options for placement in relation to airflow,
1. infront of all existing equipment (could disrupt airflow to radiator), or
2. behind radiator (60% efficient)

I went for option 1. and since the install I haven't seen engine temp be any higher than previous to the install, but I'm keeping an eye on it and will let you know if it looks like it causes a problem to engine temp.

Position in relation to Oil Circuit -
Where there are two opposing ideas is on position in relation to the oil circuit, I am thinking this difference of opinion could possibly be due to confusion of some "articles" mentioning that the additional cooler should be "mounted upstream of the radiator" - perhaps those "articles" were referring to position in relation to airflow rather than position in relation to the oil circuit ??? -

Fordem, did the American "article" reference "upstream" as being related to airflow or as being related to the oil circuit ???

or, possibly the difference in opinion is purely related to climate, which is plausible.

The only minimum temperature info I have found on Dexron III suggests that pre-heating of the ATF need only occur below -25degC which could occur in America, but won't occur in Australia.

I can appreciate that the moving parts in the g-box probably operate better at a particular temperature, but in Australia I don't see overcooling being an issue, I doubt that our ambient temperatures would allow it to happen.

Install instructions from my kit are below -

Davies Craig


Regards
Scott