[groakes]

Newbie questions so please be patient...

Am currently looking at getting a GV 1.9 DDiS. It fits nicely inbetween a soft roader and something like a Patrol or a Landcruiser. The trick is, I will be getting it on a lease so I can't add stuff to the vehicle that will change its value once I take delivery. So I have to sort out all the accessories before hand.

I don't have any serious 4WD experience. I'm not planning on doing any "hardcore" offroading, but I am planning a loooong drive to the Kimberleys and back next winter. So I'm looking for advice on outfitting the vehicle.

Beyond factory stuff (roof rails, tow pack etc) my initial thoughts are:
. ARB Deluxe Bull bar
. driving lights (suggestions?)
. winch (suggestions?)
. suspension upgrade with lift (suggestions?)
. Air compressor (would a portable cut the mustard - suggestions)
. Suggestions on tyres

Obviously there will be more kit but so long as it doesn't become "part of the car" I can think about it later.

Anything else you think I should consider....

...and a 4WD training course....

thanks in advance
Greg

[monley]

Hey mate, welcome to AZ!


Here's what i would choose:
. driving lights? Light force 170 striker HID's
. winch? Tigerz11 8000lb winch
. suspension upgrade with lift? A popular choice seem to be Dobinson coils and strut's for this car.
. Air compressor ? ARB air compressor
. Suggestions on tyres? Can't help there with out knowing what sort of terrain you will be driving on.

Might be a good idea to get a UHF to i recommend GME TX3100 as it's a very compact unit.

[sirbob]

Hi Groakes, welcome to the obsession...

I would recommend the following (in order of importance):

- 40mm Lift Kit (Dobinsons via Outdoor Auto is the best "average"). Cant go more than 50mm without causing problems to CV's. If the car is brand new, I would get spring spacers instead and use these until you destroy the OEM shocks.

- Underbody protection, again from Outdoor Auto or Iron man

- 225/75/17 Tyres, in AT pattern, probably Coopers or BFG depending on tastes.

- Heavy Duty Towbar, with receiver hitch

- ARB Deluxe Bull Bar, with Lightforce 170's as suggested. HID"s maybe slightly overkill...

- Winch probably not required, as you physically can't wheel a GV hard enough to justify one IMO. Maybe purchase a hand winch, but wouldnt bother with a bullbar one.

- Air compressor, probably a good idea, but again would purchase a portable one. You can't get airlockers for GV's, so little point in having one mounted under the bonnet.

Otherwise, drive it and enjoy!

For all other GV questions, go here;

www.newgrandvitara.net

Much good advice regarding GV's and modifications.

[steak_knife]

sirbob wrote:

- 40mm Lift Kit (Dobinsons via Outdoor Auto is the best "average"). Cant go more than 50mm without causing problems to CV's. If the car is brand new, I would get spring spacers instead and use these until you destroy the OEM shocks.

back up your claim's buddy......

Cause i know 38mm is the highest you can go with out throwing wheel alignment spec's out, & putting you front, rear of arm control arm bush's to their limit's .

Do tell where your info is from!!!!!!

[Built4thrashing]

steak_knife wrote:

sirbob wrote:

- 40mm Lift Kit (Dobinsons via Outdoor Auto is the best "average"). Cant go more than 50mm without causing problems to CV's. If the car is brand new, I would get spring spacers instead and use these until you destroy the OEM shocks.

back up your claim's buddy......

Cause i know 38mm is the highest you can go with out throwing wheel alignment spec's out, & putting you front, rear of arm control arm bush's to their limit's .

Do tell where your info is from!!!!!!

Is this with camber bolts?

Mine has the ironman 40mm lift in it and the allignment is within specs using the camber bolts. Its been in now for about 12 months and there are no signs of excessive wear to the control arm bushes.

Oh and the actual lift is closser to 45mm over what it was stock.

[steak_knife]

How's your rear toe????

I have spent countless hour's under & in these thing's, also on the phone with Suzuki, they even asked me for a "fix" to the lower bush's.

But what would I know.....

[Built4thrashing]

steak_knife wrote:

How's your rear toe????

I have spent countless hour's under & in these thing's, also on the phone with Suzuki, they even asked me for a "fix" to the lower bush's.

But what would I know.....

It drives fine, tyres dont scrub out and acording to the printout i got from pedders its within factory specs..... but only just.

oh and its a 2008 2,4l 5 door manual. 40mm ironman lift, 225/75R16 BFG AT's.

[steak_knife]

Built4thrashing wrote:

steak_knife wrote:

How's your rear toe????

I have spent countless hour's under & in these thing's, also on the phone with Suzuki, they even asked me for a "fix" to the lower bush's.

But what would I know.....

It drives fine, tyres dont scrub out and acording to the printout i got from pedders its within factory specs..... but only just.

oh and its a 2008 2,4l 5 door manual. 40mm ironman lift, 225/75R16 BFG AT's.

I was dropped a "problem" car, because all other dealership's in Briz refused to to admit there was a problem.
I looked & drove said car, thought as all others did (no problem), said car was back the next week with hubby threatening me with all sort's of physical damage.
This car was stock, the W/a spec's where in the acceptable boundary's, but would "feel unstable" in fast cornering.
As said, I thought nothing of it...... BUT!!!! I put the rear to 100% factory spec's, & this took a lot of my time, & I was driving a different car.....

With in "spec's" is some time's a long way out my friend....

[Built4thrashing]

Fast cornering??? Sounds like the tool was after a sports car not a 4wd.

[steak_knife]

Built4thrashing wrote:

Fast cornering??? Sounds like the tool was after a sports car not a 4wd.

The new Gv's are a soft roader....

& the difference was amazing!!!!!!

[303zuke]

groakes wrote:

Am currently looking at getting a GV 1.9 DDiS. The trick is, I will be getting it on a lease so I can't add stuff to the vehicle that will change its value once I take delivery.

I don't have any serious 4WD experience. I'm not planning on doing any "hardcore" offroading, but I am planning a loooong drive to the Kimberleys and back next winter. So I'm looking for advice on outfitting the vehicle.

My initial thoughts are:
. Suggestions on tyres

Obviously there will be more kit but so long as it doesn't become "part of the car" I can think about it later.

Anything else you think I should consider.... thanks in advance

Greg

One of the advantages of the DDiS is the speed and torque they put out compared to the 2.4 Petrol. Much more driveable on the road and makes it an absolute pleasure for Touring/Highway driving. The downside to this is the tyres that are fitted, and especially the tyre placard. Road rules and ADRs state that you have some leeway with the rim and tyre size away from factory originals, but are quite stringent about Speed and Weight ratings on the placard. It is illegal to fit tyres less than the ratings on the placard. If yours will be a lease vehicle, then this will be of even greater importance to you.

The DDiS is placarded for 101H tyres. The "101" weight rating is no problem as most 4wd tyres in the size you will be looking for will easily meet or exceed this rating. The "H" speed rating is the problem. H tyres are rated for 210km/h, while most 4wd pattern tyres will be rated at Q, or 160km/h. For your planned trip to the Kimberley, decent 4wd tyres are a good suggestion, so what do you do?

Most direct owners planning a trip such as yours would source a set of 16" rims and fit 225/75/16 tyres with a good 4wd tread pattern. The range of 4wd tyres available in 17" is pretty poor and only limited to more highway style tread patterns. Then, when you get back to "Town", re-fit the 17" original wheels. The 16" 4wd tyres will be good insurance for your trip, but could have significant impacts on your Lease Agreement and/or Insurance because of the Tyre Placard Rating. Read the fine print first and ask questions.

[Built4thrashing]

I dont want to be a downer on this either but in vic and i pretty sure the other states are going to follow suit if the havent already but if your vehicle is fitted with ESP or some stability program then you are not allowed to raise or fit larger tyres to it unless it is reprogramed and signed off by an engineer. It apparently effects the operation of the esp.


That aside what 303zuke said is on the money

[royce]

Built4thrashing wrote:

I dont want to be a downer on this either but in vic and i pretty sure the other states are going to follow suit if the havent already but if your vehicle is fitted with ESP or some stability program then you are not allowed to raise or fit larger tyres to it unless it is reprogramed and signed off by an engineer. It apparently effects the operation of the esp.


That aside what 303zuke said is on the money

Dont spread as fact what you read wrong to begin with, thats not how its worded at all

It clearly states it must not effect the operation of it, no mention what so ever of how that is determined

[Built4thrashing]

royce wrote:

Built4thrashing wrote:

I dont want to be a downer on this either but in vic and i pretty sure the other states are going to follow suit if the havent already but if your vehicle is fitted with ESP or some stability program then you are not allowed to raise or fit larger tyres to it unless it is reprogramed and signed off by an engineer. It apparently effects the operation of the esp.


That aside what 303zuke said is on the money

Dont spread as fact what you read wrong to begin with, thats not how its worded at all

It clearly states it must not effect the operation of it, no mention what so ever of how that is determined

OK then how can you prove it? You cant. lifting it raises the center of gravity the system was programed to operate at. and fitting larger tyres changes the rolling diameter the systems are set on. either will change the dynamics of the vehicle. There are too many vairables to prove to say it still operates as per originally designed.

Id be more than happy if someone could show it isnt effected by lift and tyres but i wont hold my breath.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm not trying to sustain/create an argument, but I think Royce's take on the legislation is significant.

Lifting the vehicle any amount will raise it's COG, but then so would putting two fatties in the back seat, or putting ANY roof load in the car, so if lets say, 40mm of lift was added, raising the COG, lets say 25mm, how much will the COG go up with the maximum rated load on the roof?

If it's possible to prove suspension lift will upset the ESP on the grounds of COG increase alone, then it must be prohibited to carry any roof load.

Steve.

[Built4thrashing]

Thats where the GMV comes into play and most vehicles have a maximum roof loading.

[zooks4life]

Just lift it and enjoy it lol

[monley]

zooks4life wrote:

Just lift it and enjoy it lol

[Gwagensteve]

Gwagensteve wrote:

If it's possible to prove suspension lift will upset the ESP on the grounds of COG increase alone, then it must be prohibited to carry any roof load.

Steve.

For the purpose of the discussion, I'll reiterate that. I'll also add I'm only discussing lift, not tyre size.

If ANY cog increase is prohibited because of a COG increase and therefore unpredictable effects on the ESP, then how come there aren't severe restrictions on how the vehicle can be loaded. That's not a GVM consideration, just load distribution.

I believe it is no harder or easier to prove load will effect ESP operation due to COG change than suspension lift.

In any case, if you take the car to GVM, it's probably lowered by as much as a small lift would lift the car. If that load was very dense and carried flat on the floor, it would have terrible effects on the ESP, if a small lift can have unpredictable effects on the ESP.

I do not believe changes in COG will have an effect on the ESP. I don't think it cares what the COG of the car is. Raising COG would wold be similar to lowering the traction of the road surface. The ESP system would detect a skid at lower lateral load and the program will run regardless.

The intent of the standard is that if cog changes effect ESP, the the COG can't be changed

Steve.

[gv88]

Have done both and have not experienced any side effects. The ESP is very effective (and annoying) and the traction control works brilliantly.

As zooks4life said, "lift it and enjoy it."

[sirbob]

steak_knife wrote:

sirbob wrote:

- 40mm Lift Kit (Dobinsons via Outdoor Auto is the best "average"). Cant go more than 50mm without causing problems to CV's. If the car is brand new, I would get spring spacers instead and use these until you destroy the OEM shocks.

back up your claim's buddy......

Cause i know 38mm is the highest you can go with out throwing wheel alignment spec's out, & putting you front, rear of arm control arm bush's to their limit's .

Do tell where your info is from!!!!!!

Not sure if your just trolling, but anyway...

- Suzuki have since resolved the issues associated with liftng New GV's and the control arm bushes, so any of the post 2006 cars should be ok in this regard. In any case, I have been told that there are poly replacements available if the originals fail.

Several guys on NewGrandVitara.net have 50mm kits installed and this is generally accepted as the maximum you can go before CV angles become a problem. In terms of the remaining finer points of the alignment, I agree 100% that you will stand buckleys of achieving factory specs, but if your lifting the car to that extent, wheel alignment usually starts to become a secondary factor.

Also, very surprised that you know precisly that 38mm is "The Limit", and not 40? 45???? 77.3???

[steak_knife]

Because that's what Suzuki & king spring's spent thousand's of $'s to figure out.....


me a Troll???


So 06 on is ok????
that's a good one.....

[sirbob]

steak_knife wrote:

So 06 on is ok????
that's a good one.....

Whatever the year was that they updated the engines and added ESP, maybe 08??? I forgot that the new GV only came out in 06...

In any case apparently Suzuki changed the design of the bushes in later models. AFAIK GV88 and several others with the updated GV have had no complaints of the rear bushes failing with their lift kits.

In the early models there were some reports of the bushes cracking even with standard suspension, but this seems to not be a problem on the updated version.

But hey, since your the expert, you can probably tell me...

[Built4thrashing]

They did a model update in 2008. They dumped the 2.7 V6 and J20a motors and replaced them with a 3.2V6 and a 2.4l 4cl and added the 1.9TD.
ESP became standard as did 6 airbags and traction control.

We have a 2008 and have had none of the so called bush issues and the GV actually handles better with the 40mm lift and the 225/75R16 BFG AT's( untill it rains that is)

[royce]

sirbob wrote:

steak_knife wrote:

So 06 on is ok????
that's a good one.....

Whatever the year was that they updated the engines and added ESP, maybe 08??? I forgot that the new GV only came out in 06...

In any case apparently Suzuki changed the design of the bushes in later models. AFAIK GV88 and several others with the updated GV have had no complaints of the rear bushes failing with their lift kits.

In the early models there were some reports of the bushes cracking even with standard suspension, but this seems to not be a problem on the updated version.

But hey, since your the expert, you can probably tell me...

Well in this post I have quoted here, 2 people have posted something, one of em is a Suzuki Mechanic that has already in this thread posted about what fails and the other is sirbob

[gv88]

This is a similar saga to the ZD30 patrol hand grenade issues. Many on the forum posted of the engine imploding whilst there are also many others out there without such issue. Lemons in all made and models.

[steak_knife]

gv88 wrote:

This is a similar saga to the ZD30 patrol hand grenade issues. Many on the forum posted of the engine imploding whilst there are also many others out there without such issue. Lemons in all made and models.

I've seen that 1st hand to.....

[sirbob]

In regards to the OP, refer below for the link to evidence of the bushes failing, however, there are unconfirmed reports that Suzuki has since fixed this and the later models have a different bush design;

http://newgrandvitara.net/modules/newbb ... 83&forum=5

*whinging rant removed*

[groakes]

Thanks for all the advice...

With regard to tyres, I can get Yokohama geolander A/T-S 225/65R17 which appear to have a pretty good rep. However, would you consider 65 too low a profile, when running them soft?

With regard to suspension, I have been told that 50mm is the max lift before you need a revised road worthiness certificate. Mind you, that's no reflection on mechanical or engineering viability - particularly for the long term. So I guess the question I need answered here is, "what's the max lift I can go for before I hit ongoing mechanical problems?"

Cheers
Greg

[sirbob]

I would go bigger personally, probably 70 series as minimum. Increasing tyre size is the most effective way of gaining clearance in these things!

The yokies are a good tyes, I had them on our old GV and was happy with them, good all terrain patern but still quiet on road.