[wolf_rt]

Ok so I cant decide on which crawler gears to get... 5.14's or 6.5's... there's nothing in in high range...
Running a running 30's for now, but will upgrade to ~31.5 muddies at some point.
Car will be unlocked for some time due to $$$

6.5's PRO'S
Cheaper
Stronger???
Lifetime Warranty???

6.5's CONS
Low range seems a little too low
appears to leave an 'extra' gear in low range, and leaves high 1st in the same spot as low 4th, and high 2nd is going to be to high for wheeling....
no gear equivalent to 'stock' (26") low 3rd.. which seems like a good gear for moving about on the 'easy tracks' (roads)

5.14 PROS
Seems like a better spread in low range (on paper) with low 4th = stock low 2nd
Low 1st might actually be useful at times...
Don't have to grind the case (though this doesn't seem like a big deal)

5.14 CONS
$130 extra
Weaker???
Limited warranty


What's everybody's opinions?

[SierraDan]

I have 31's with 3.9 diffs and 5.14's and its pretty much perfect.

[wolf_rt]

Thanks dan you just told me on outers... but outers is dead...lol... and i have 3.7's...

although the difference between 30's and 31's pretty much makes up the difference. i will be getting ~31/31.5's at some point...

are you dual locked? I imagine that would make better use of low 1st...
do you stay in low range on the 'roads'???

3.9's on 30's pretty much splits the difference between the 5.14's or the 6.5's with 3.7diff (in low range)

[neofitou]

I think it depends on your terrain and driving sytyle, I had 6.5s and 31s and it was awesomeness.
If you like the extra low crawl speed, steep hills and technical go the 6.5s, sand, touring etc or staying with 30s go the higher ratios.

[wolf_rt]

there is all of 2% difference in high range... so no difference for touring ect...

i have never driven a 4WD with crawler gears before, but i have been known to attack rocky sections in low 2nd in my GQ Patrol with 36's and std gearing... so im mostly worried if the 6.5's will limit my ability to destroy my car at high speed, if you know what i mean....

[rpmwrx]

I read this article on trail tough website the other day. Very interesting read...

I am running the 4.16 transfercase gears and 5.1 diff gears and for vic conditions it is a good combo...


Question - Transfer case gears or axle gears?
While doing Suzuki Samurai transfer case gears is probably the biggest bang for the buck and a quick-fix, it is definitely a lousy way to try and create a reliable, trouble-free drivetrain. So think about this for a minute...you put on larger tires, so your pinion now becomes TWICE as hard to turn putting TWICE as much stress on the u-joints, transfer case mounts and the transfer case itself, as well as the brackets on the side of the frame that holds the transfer case in place. It leads to problem chasing such as having to use unnecessary large and heavy driveshafts, having the bolts pull out of the transfer case on the long arm side, having the mounting boss break off of the transfer case or having the short arm side bracket start to tear off of the frame rail. It is because you have given your transfer case up to 3 times as much power by putting in lower gears and now the transfer case wants to do flip-flops in its mount. Many people consider only the POWER issue of this equation as opposed to considering the STRESS LOADING situation as well. You need to change the ring and pinion gears also - relative to your tire size - which will make the driveshaft easy to turn again, taking all of the strain off of these parts - just like it was made from the factory when the smaller tires were on it. It is a mistake to do all of your gear reduction at one point. Especially that far up the mechanical chain. Do yourself a favor....reduce the ratio at the ring and pinions relative to the size tire you want to run, then select the transfer case gears that will best meet your 4-wheeling needs. By going this route, you will have a well thought out and trouble-free drivetrain, working well within the parameters of strain that the parts can and will reliably handle.
 
Something to think about anyways...

[ZookFan]

Very very well said! food for thought hey!

[wolf_rt]

actually looking at it now, low 3rd with 6.5's seems ideal for destroying the car, but then that.s identical to low 1st stock, but then i have only driven it with 27.7's not 26's Aaaarrrrggghhh.... sooo hard....

im leaning toward the 6.5's just for the $130 saving... ill find out if 1st is usable once I have lockers, cant see it being any use unlocked...

[wolf_rt]

rpmwrx wrote:

I read this article on trail tough website the other day. Very interesting read...

I am running the 4.16 transfercase gears and 5.1 diff gears and for vic conditions it is a good combo...


Question - Transfer case gears or axle gears?
While doing Suzuki Samurai transfer case gears is probably the biggest bang for the buck and a quick-fix, it is definitely a lousy way to try and create a reliable, trouble-free drivetrain. So think about this for a minute...you put on larger tires, so your pinion now becomes TWICE as hard to turn putting TWICE as much stress on the u-joints, transfer case mounts and the transfer case itself, as well as the brackets on the side of the frame that holds the transfer case in place. It leads to problem chasing such as having to use unnecessary large and heavy driveshafts, having the bolts pull out of the transfer case on the long arm side, having the mounting boss break off of the transfer case or having the short arm side bracket start to tear off of the frame rail. It is because you have given your transfer case up to 3 times as much power by putting in lower gears and now the transfer case wants to do flip-flops in its mount. Many people consider only the POWER issue of this equation as opposed to considering the STRESS LOADING situation as well. You need to change the ring and pinion gears also - relative to your tire size - which will make the driveshaft easy to turn again, taking all of the strain off of these parts - just like it was made from the factory when the smaller tires were on it. It is a mistake to do all of your gear reduction at one point. Especially that far up the mechanical chain. Do yourself a favor....reduce the ratio at the ring and pinions relative to the size tire you want to run, then select the transfer case gears that will best meet your 4-wheeling needs. By going this route, you will have a well thought out and trouble-free drivetrain, working well within the parameters of strain that the parts can and will reliably handle.
 
Something to think about anyways...

Only problem there is if i change the diff gears, there's no way to avoid revving too high on the highway, as ALL the transfer gears have reduction on the high range too. and the stock transfer gears are too high...

the best i could do would be 3.9 diff gears and 4.16 transfer gears, which would only give low 1st any different than stock low 2nd= low 1st stock ect... no 'inbetween gears'
and all that hassle and money to reduce the load on the diff by 5.2%???

with 5.1diffs and 4.16(least high reduction)transfer gears i would be doing 4500RPM at 100kph

[TryHard]

i used to Run 6.5s in my zooky with 31s ....i loved crawling on rocks etc so they where perfect for that but beach work it seemed to be missing the perfect gear .. My advice is 5.14s should be good for road and all round work .. 6.5s for the rocks .. i wouldnt think u would need to do diff gears to run 31s what are u playing on running tyre wise

also if you do buy 6.5s you will need to invest in Transfer case cradle .. because u will snap your rubber trans-case mounts other wise

also I used to Rev 3900 with 31s and 6.5s at 100 .. so you should rev at id say 3.5 with 5.14s

also what are you meaning there is nothing in high range .. ?

[wolf_rt]

30 at the moment, and ~31.5's when I have cash for muddies...

I don't do any beach work, i'm mostly concerned with being able to carry momentum on the trails...

Should be good for the cradle, as im going to win the raffle for the BenT mounts

The diffrence between the 5.14's and the 6.5's in high range is 2%..so 70rpm at 100kph

[TryHard]

wolf_rt wrote:

30 at the moment, and ~31.5's when I have cash for muddies...

I don't do any beach work, i'm mostly concerned with being able to carry momentum on the trails...

my advice is to stick with 5.14s most people find 6.5s to low for general use
also what is your reasoning for saying 5.14s are weeker ?
they are a Calmini haha .. is that your reason lol
even this might be better for u you could even use 31s with it

http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/index.ph ... gears.html

[SierraDan]

wolf_rt wrote:

Thanks dan you just told me on outers... but outers is dead...lol... and i have 3.7's...

although the difference between 30's and 31's pretty much makes up the difference. i will be getting ~31/31.5's at some point...

are you dual locked? I imagine that would make better use of low 1st...
do you stay in low range on the 'roads'???

3.9's on 30's pretty much splits the difference between the 5.14's or the 6.5's with 3.7diff (in low range)

I'm dual locked yep.
And it definitely makes better use of the gearing.

No, only low for off road.

6.5's in low is 27% lower than 5.14's.. Only high range will differ slightly between the two.

[shep]

SierraDan wrote:

wolf_rt wrote:

Thanks dan you just told me on outers... but outers is dead...lol... and i have 3.7's...

although the difference between 30's and 31's pretty much makes up the difference. i will be getting ~31/31.5's at some point...

are you dual locked? I imagine that would make better use of low 1st...
do you stay in low range on the 'roads'???

3.9's on 30's pretty much splits the difference between the 5.14's or the 6.5's with 3.7diff (in low range)

I'm dual locked yep.
And it definitely makes better use of the gearing.

No, only low for off road.

6.5's in low is 27% lower than 5.14's.. Only high range will differ slightly between the two.

why is it hard to use all 5 gears in low? 6.5s give a great spread through all 10 forward gears

[TryHard]

What Gear box are u running shep:P 10 lowrange gears would be Awesome hahaH

[shep]

i said 10 forward gears. think about it

[wolf_rt]

strength? just what i had heard bandied about...

the 4.16's would leave me a bit slow on the highway i think when i went to 31.5's

one bonus of the 6.5's seems to be they provide a gear smack in the middle of the 'stock' low 1st and low 2nd
which would be a good gear I think... problem is that there is nothing equivalent to low 2nd till you hit high range

on the other hand with 5.14's low 4th is equivalent to 'stock' low 2nd... hmm... low 3rd would still split 'stock' 1st & 2nd....

I think ill go the 5.14's.... really would have liked to save that $130 though

[wolf_rt]

not really much fun always swapping from low 4th to high 1st all the time though...

is it reasonable to use low 5th and get stuck in???

Quote:

No, only low for off road.

i meant are you swapping to high range all the time when you get to easy trails...

[Zook_Fan]

wolf_rt wrote:

i meant are you swapping to high range all the time when you get to easy trails...

Don't you do that anyway? I will always go back to high and use 2nd most of the time unless it is technical

[ajsr]

I suppose it really depends how low you need low range to be?
if you go looking for the nastiest shit you can drive you really will need a very large reduction in the end. I'm not saying 5's wont work but 6.5's will be a lot easier on the car
if average 4wd tracks fire trails and daily drive duties are your thing the 5's would likely be more your speed.

you need to be truthfull to yourself in regards to WHAT your are really going to do with the car

[ZookFan]

Well said!

[ajsr]

the other thing to consider.
although 6.5's are cheaper, how cheap is something that shits you EVERY day due to fact its not quite right/or nearly there, and the right thing for you was $200 more.

[shep]

ajsr wrote:

the other thing to consider.
although 6.5's are cheaper, how cheap is something that shits you EVERY day due to fact its not quite right/or nearly there, and the right thing for you was $200 more.

or if the right one was 200 cheaper

[Red89]

My 5.14's have held up really well for the past 5 years, with 3.7's and 5.12's on 31's and 33's and doing some serious rockcrawling. And they do pretty well with 5.29s and 38's so far, with the only issues being a couple bent long side arms. I dont run a cradle or rock ring and I use to use the stock rubber mounts but when I did my TC lift I went to solid mounts.

[TryHard]

shep wrote:

i said 10 forward gears. think about it

i know im joking

[TryHard]

ajsr wrote:

I suppose it really depends how low you need low range to be?
if you go looking for the nastiest shit you can drive you really will need a very large reduction in the end. I'm not saying 5's wont work but 6.5's will be a lot easier on the car
if average 4wd tracks fire trails and daily drive duties are your thing the 5's would likely be more your speed.

you need to be truthfull to yourself in regards to WHAT your are really going to do with the car

couldn't have Said it better

[wolf_rt]

Hmm last time i had a 4x4 i tried to do this:




with this:




which ended like this:




And then drove it to work on Monday.....

[wolf_rt]

but red 89 seems to be doing that with th 5.14....hmmm

[ajsr]

wolf_rt wrote:

but red 89 seems to be doing that with th 5.14....hmmm

yeah and I bet red is really mechanicly sympathic bloke when it come to his car, his driving style and technique.
also he is locked which makes a massive difference to the life of your components if your carefull how you put the power down.

wheelspin and bounce under power is the enemy to all things drivetrain not the gear ratio in the transfer and gearbox gear selection

[wolf_rt]

It will be getting lockers when funds permit....

Since 5th is usable, now I'm leaning toward the 6.5's again...

I'm sure there would be precious little difference between the 5.14's and the 6.5's as to how mush stuff i will break, as you said, that comes down to wheel spin and bounce.