[want33s]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbD_ZCUnyVU

[SuziBlu]

want33s wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbD_ZCUnyVU

Seen that before, stunning recovery hey.

Only trouble there is, too many people lol

[Gwagensteve]

The reason this thread is funny is because IMHO the cart is miles ahead of the horse.

Stock sierra front shock - collapsed length 10.75"
14" 5125 Bilstein - collapsed length 20.75"

Your new shock towers need to be 10" taller than stock if you want to maintain factory compression travel.

however, you have a currently unknown amount of flex, so you don't know how much room you are going to have. IMHO, you are going to have to run the axle end shock mount as far outboard as you can to get the shock to clear the chassis on flex. You will need to run the top quite a long way outboard to prevent the shock hitting the chassis. As you are running a spring setup that's almost unknown in australia, shocks that are miles longer than required, and unknown backspacing and tyre size, getting recommendations is pointless. You are going to have to flex the car up and see what clearance you have, like the rest of us that dream up custom stuff. If it was my car, I'd be running the axle end shock mount on the top of the axle for your application. This will improve handling and allow for easier tyre clearance as the bottom of the shock can be run further out ( like CJ's setup) but then your shock towers will need to be approximately 16" taller than stock.

Front spring rate with (stock) YJ springs will be 128 or 113lb/" That's comparable to a de-rated RUF. Those 5125's are going to be crazy stiff with such a light spring rate. Ride will be choppy THIS IS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

You need to get the springs on the car with no bumpstops, and do some flex tests. IMHO, a de rated RUF will work the bumpstop hard, but it's offering very little lift ( maybe1"?) with an extra 3.5" of lift, you might find it hard to get to a stock bumpstop. Only flexing the car up with the spring in will prove this. It can't be done effectively by theory.

Now to your air bumps. If you want every bit of stock compression travel, and a genuine 4.5" of lift, you will have about 6" of compression until you are in contact with the (stock) bumpstop, 7" until the bumpstop is heavily compressed. Using that as a guide, with 4" air bumps, you will have 3" of compression until you are onto the air bump. At that point, it will be adding additional damping, and adding additional spring rate. You're actually going to have less "free" travel before you start into the bump than a sierra with 2" springs on it. How severe that is will depend a bit on the tuning of the bump, but I bet you can't compress them more than an inch or so with your body weight. I think 2" bumps would have been a much better choice for what is, by high speed standards, not very much compression travel. However, I think if you are landing hard with 113/128lb" springs, they are going to flatten out quite a lot with use. I think you will be riding very close to the bumps after a few runs, which will suck because you'll be slapping them under "normal" driving, and they will be having an aggressive effect on spring rate and damping. If you had 2" bumps, you'd have another 2" of compression before they started screwing the ride up.

I guess you could always shim them down to 2" though.

Another factor on the air bumps. Have you thought about striker plates? With soft, long leaves, the axle is going to be all over the shop. There's a good chance you'll be hitting the air bump at quite steep angles ( not ideal) and you'll need a large striker plate or "land" for it to aim at. With RUF, it's not uncommon for the axle to move around enough it misses the bumpstop altogether. Add in the "loose" roll centre of leaves and you're going to need a very large target to get the bump onto. 4" bumps are also pretty long - In fact, a 4" air bump is longer than a sierra front shock with the car at ride height

You have some very severe packaging and performance problems to consider. Upper shock mounts are the last consideration.

IMHO: Your shocks are too stiff and too long to fit in your car
Your bumps are too long to fit in your car, and your car is likely to perform poorly even if you get them in.
Your soft springs are going to make handling and axle location a nightmare for speed work.

However, I know nothing about driving on sand, so carry on........ I'm sure the shock mounts are the last thing you have to work out and I'm way out of line.

Steve.

[Fatzook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Those 5125's are going to be crazy stiff with such a light spring rate. Ride will be choppy THIS IS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

Not entirely true. They are available in different valve specs, off the shelf. So I guess it depends which ones he has chosen.

[Gwagensteve]

I can't find any data that 5125's come under 255/70 valving. We have some 12" travel 5150s with the same valving here and they are stiff

It may well be possible to get softer valving, but I don't think it's readily available?

Steve

[Fatzook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I can't find any data that 5125's come under 255/70 valving. We have some 12" travel 5150s with the same valving here and they are stiff

It may well be possible to get softer valving, but I don't think it's readily available?

Steve

Off the shelf they are availabe in 170/60 valving in 10 an 11" travel, but you can order the longer shocks with "light" valving direct from Bilstein USA, or one of their agents. I've just been through this for a customers car.

[Gwagensteve]

I wonder if that's what Suziblu did?

I reckon 10" travel 170/60 would have been pretty sweet for this application.

Steve.

[Fatzook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I wonder if that's what Suziblu did?

I reckon 10" travel 170/60 would have been pretty sweet for this application.

Steve.

Same. Packaging would be far easier.

[SuziBlu]

Rang America, spoke with them for about an hour before deciding which way to go, tried a few mobs, then got onto a supplier of a lot of quality stuff, as I see it.

He happened to be a suzi man, he advised me on things as he has done to his vehicles, advised me against things I thought was the go.

The YJ springs are from a heavier vehicle, so I do not think they will sag very quickly, landings are going to be protected, I hope.

I am doing something that, like Steve said, is somewhat sailing into unknown seas, if the shocks and 4" bumps are unusable, I will nail them to my shed wall as a trophy to stupidity, and buy smaller. Its only money, already blown $600 on a motor that I now believe never existed, time is what I don't have a lot of, I get a month at work, 5 days at home, I have lost 10 weeks on trying to get my engine in. I want this going at least a bit by the time the meetup happens, how suck would it be to have a car in bits when suzis from all over get together.

I think I am on the right track, maybe I have gone too big, maybe I have to take the shocks way inboard to suit loading and travel, maybe I can't use the hydrolic bumpstops because they are too big, such is life.

[Gwagensteve]

Lowrange?

It doesn't matter that the springs are from a heavier vehicle. Only their rate is relevant. They are soft springs, and as they are being used in an application where they are being over compressed, (6" of compression is WAY more than a stock YJ has) they are likely to sag if you work them hard. If your bumpstops are functional (i.e you can use the full 4" of travel) then the bumpstops aren't "saving" the springs - they are still able to over compress.

I don't think sagging is a problem, but you might - you're trying to clear 4" bumps with acceptable compression travel to avoid running on them all the time.

I'm not trying to be hater, but geez, it might have been easier to work though this stuff before you bought a whole bunch of gear.

Steve.

[SuziBlu]

No not longrange, was put onto DownSouthMotors by Radflo, the makers of the bumpstops.

If anyone wants stuff, Neil is a ripper bloke, and is a suzi enthusiast.

Steve, you said it earlier, going where I am trying to go is new, not a lot dun here, most of you are into something that I find hard to contemplate, giant rocks, crikey, Id shit myself.

If this fails, I will go coils all round.

I see it like this, IF the springs are too long, then the tops can be remounted inboard, thats easy, I have spoken with the supplier, and he has sent me shocks rated for the little light suzi, so they may be made useless by going inboard, but then, may be ok as hydrolic bumpstops are only another form of shocky, may work. May have to combine hydrolic on very light settings and a rubber to pull her up.

I want this to work, and as my father tells me, there is no such thing as problems, only solutions that haven't been found yet.

[JrZook]

SuziBlu wrote:

I want this to work, and as my father tells me, there is no such thing as problems, only quite time consuming and expensive solutions that haven't been found yet.

Have to agree there

Now hurry up and get those webers running on it!!!

[SuziBlu]

Its a grands worth of shocks and bump stops, no drama.

I am taking some more time off this round, she will be running within a few days. Rest will be as she has always been, that will really tell what I have.

[Gwagensteve]

I don't get it. You're forever explaining how what you are doing is so different to what we do and using it to justify why the advice we have to offer isn't relevant.

It's just measurements and more measurements, then some purchases and then some fabrication.

You've done it the other way around and are then asking for advice. My advice is you've done it the wrong way around, and you're likely to have to do a lot of rework and buying more parts before you sort it out. That's fine, but it kind of works against the idea of a forum, where you can learn from other's mistakes rather than your own?

Oh well - I can't add any more to this thread. I hope it works out for you and you are happy with the results.

Steve.

[SuziBlu]

Steve, I do not understand the negativity.

My question here was simple, what shock towers to use for long travel shocks.

Somehow you have rangled it around to me being wrong, as you usually do.

I didn't ask what shocks to use, what rating to use, what length to use, whether the hydrolic bumpstops are for leaf springs or not.

The original first few posters helped me out wonderfully, then it came around to what I have, oops, now im wrong, do not listen to you.

All I wanted was what type of shock towers to use.

[Fatzook]

SuziBlu wrote:

All I wanted was what type of shock towers to use.

Probably not much help to you, but there is no garantee that ANY of the suggested towers will work for you.

Get your springs in, Flex it up to full bump/ extension, and see what height towers are needed to fit the shocks at full compression/ extension.

Thats how I do it. Its not failed me yet.

JMO
Peter

[SuziBlu]

Thanks mate, I sort of guessed that was what was needed from the outset, and from posts here,

Not sure of IF there were any that could be asumed to work as "stock" or had to fabricate my own.

I just hope I don't have to have the towers sticking up thru the bonnet lol, would look like im trying to bling the lil girl.

[Fatzook]

SuziBlu wrote:

Thanks mate, I sort of guessed that was what was needed from the outset, and from posts here,

Not sure of IF there were any that could be asumed to work as "stock" or had to fabricate my own.

I just hope I don't have to have the towers sticking up thru the bonnet lol, would look like im trying to bling the lil girl.

Id say you will definately need them to pass throug the inner guard, but you should be able to avoid any bonnet mods with your B/L and 4.5" spring lift.

[GRPABT1]

You can't help people that won't help themselves.

[Fatzook]

GRPABT1 wrote:

You can't help people that won't help themselves.

Deep.

[SuziBlu]

GRPABT1 wrote:

You can't help people that won't help themselves.

Goodo, very philosophical and deep.

You have never had a thought and carried it thru, ok, we have a word for people like you.

Sheep.

[got_bar_work]

Forget the leaves and go coil from the start
Some 8 series radius arms will stop it over flexing to much at speed but allow alot of travel for jumps
Custom plate towers would be the go as I recon the top of the tire is going to get in to the tower on full flex
They will need a brace as they will be along way above the chassis
What off set rims are u using
Like steve said u are Going to have to run them way out board to clear the chassis

[2stroker]

want33s wrote:

Hilux 4wd 84-95 I think.. anything with solid axle.
The look a lot like stock but are about 100mm taller.
Check Alex's build.

Hydro bumps come with a retaining can that needs to be welded to the chassis.

Hmmm.... last time I tell someone too much info, so he posted pics of that to, I used them because they were a "stealth" mod that no one usually picked up on, now that it is common knowledge peoplewill start doing them with crap welds and hacked up edges and our Qld transport friends will know what I have been doing, thanks alex..

[Fatzook]

2stroker wrote:

want33s wrote:

Hilux 4wd 84-95 I think.. anything with solid axle.
The look a lot like stock but are about 100mm taller.
Check Alex's build.

Hydro bumps come with a retaining can that needs to be welded to the chassis.

Hmmm.... last time I tell someone too much info, so he posted pics of that to, I used them because they were a "stealth" mod that no one usually picked up on, now that it is common knowledge peoplewill start doing them with crap welds and hacked up edges and our Qld transport friends will know what I have been doing, thanks alex..

Bit dramatic don't you think? You are trying to pull a fast one on transport by hoping they don't realise you have changed the shock mounts.

Ever thought of telling that they were damaged and you just replaced them? As long as your welds are of a high enough standard I doubt they would give a shit.

[2stroker]

Yeah pete probably a bit dramatic, but I would rather they just didn't know any better than lie to them.

[Fatzook]

2stroker wrote:

Yeah pete probably a bit dramatic, but I would rather they just didn't know any better than lie to them.

Is there a difference? Non-disclosure is the same as disclosing false information

[2stroker]

I can see your point, if you were asked a question and failed to disclose but if the question is not asked then its not non disclosure....is it?

You know what I mean Pete, if you get pulled over for an RBT and because your car is tidy and you have gone through the trouble of fitting flare extensions the cop doesn't notice that your 235 tyres are too big for your Vitara, so are you dishonest if you do not drawing his attention to the tyre placard and then pointing at that your tyres are too big..... haha

[Fatzook]

2stroker wrote:

I can see your point, if you were asked a question and failed to disclose but if the question is not asked then its not non disclosure....is it?

You know what I mean Pete, if you get pulled over for an RBT and because your car is tidy and you have gone through the trouble of fitting flare extensions the cop doesn't notice that your 235 tyres are too big for your Vitara, so are you dishonest if you do not drawing his attention to the tyre placard and then pointing at that your tyres are too big..... haha

I know mate, I know. Was just shit stirring

I got pulled over last weekend for an expired liscence ( 1 day past due). One cop wrote me up, while the other checked out the vit. He said he liked the front bar and sliders, and "the tyres look tough" They do stick out about 10mm, but the vit is low and stock looking, so its not that noticable. I was nice and polite, and copped the fine on the chin.

[just_cruizin]

2stroker wrote:

I can see your point, if you were asked a question and failed to disclose but if the question is not asked then its not non disclosure....is it?

You know what I mean Pete, if you get pulled over for an RBT and because your car is tidy and you have gone through the trouble of fitting flare extensions the cop doesn't notice that your 235 tyres are too big for your Vitara, so are you dishonest if you do not drawing his attention to the tyre placard and then pointing at that your tyres are too big..... haha

What if you get pulled up for the tyres and you're pissed, do you have to point out that you've had half a carton.

[2stroker]

That is why speed camera's are un-Australian, you don't even get a chance to try to talk your way out of it. at least when it's a person you have a chance that he may let you off with a warning.