[DarkHorse]

Wasn't an absolute comment, more referring to the apparent tendency for 34"+ bias tyres to be effectively undriveable on road in general.

Dave, could we start with MTZs, KM2s, XTerrains, Couragias and Bighorns in 265/75

And just for the fun of it 9/34-16 Swampers?

Sorry to ask so much, really appreciate the help.

[SierraDan]

Balance them then its all good. Someone in the states had his 54" Claws perfectly balanced. and drove on the highways all the time.

[ZookFan]

Wow!.. what the yanks can do!

[SierraDan]

Or a tyre shop..

[monley]

SierraDan wrote:

Balance them then its all good. Someone in the states had his 54" Claws perfectly balanced. and drove on the highways all the time.

cop4x4 heep?

[SierraDan]

Yeah haha.

[GRPABT1]

My pedes exceeded the load and speed rating required for a zook. I do believe the tyre itself must be ADR approved though, as I know DOT (american) rated tyres I run on my commodore (ET Street drag radials) technically aren't legal for that reason only.

I drove on 31" pedes from new till worn at speeds up to about 140km/hr without drama and have done about the same with 34" swampers and no dramas. Only negatives I notice are heavier stearing, power loss and a slight vibration till the tyres warm up (about 1km down the road).

[GRPABT1]

Oh and that's without a steering dampener also

[bohuler]

I'll make some calls on monday
MTZs, KM2s, XTerrains, Couragias and Bighorns in 265/75R15
Dave

[DarkHorse]

Cheers Dave!

16s though, yeah?

[Gwagensteve]

DarkHorse wrote:

Wasn't an absolute comment, more referring to the apparent tendency for 34"+ bias tyres to be effectively undriveable on road in general.

Not sure where you heard that, but that's just not true. I've been running 34"+ bias tyres since the early 90s. They drive fine on road.

I'll reiterate - my 9/34 swampers drove much nicer on road than my Krawlers. There's no question the Krawlers have better traction and road holding, but they ride and track terribly compared to the swampers. Swampers are quieter too.

Steve.

[DarkHorse]

Thanks Steve.

Have sent an e-mail to my engineer to see what he'll let me get away with legally. That will go some way to informing my choices. He may come back and say anything over 31/10.5 is a no go, in which case a set of 31 ATs will probably go on the XL7 alloys and I'll look into a set of rims (beadlocks) and some crazy boots down the track.

That then makes gearing a more complicated decision - undertaker will take Hi range way back below stock for the 31s, which means buzzing it's head off at freeway speeds. Transfer gears may then be a better option - saves a few hundred, at the expense of gutting and refitting the transfer.

Damn domino effect...

[got_bar_work]

U could try a set of 5.83 from over seas
If there any good then I will get some
Flexed up the vit today and I recon I could get 33 under my vit with a bit more trimming with no body lift

[DarkHorse]

Where the f*ck am I likely to find 5.8s? Even in the states they're impossible to find. I'd also be a little worried about the longevity of those tiny little teeth, especially with FA chance of local spares/replacement.

[got_bar_work]

My mate just order a under taker for his Sierra so I will let u know how it goes

[Gwagensteve]

Ahh, the mythical 5.83 diff gears. At one stage, I was fully across the saga between Calmini and Richmond gear(?) in relation to them, but I've forgotten all the details.

It's easier to say they don't exist.

I think there are some turkish made gears too, but I don't know anyone who has tried them.

I think the answer is in the last couple of posts.

Darkhorse: you're not getting a 31 legal under the NCOP (if NSW's interpretation of the NCOP is anything like the Vic one). It's factory available tyre +50mm. From memory that's just sneaking in a 29.

An undertaker will sort out gearing with massive tyres, but not 29's on road.

Transfer gears correct even quite large tyres off road by themselves.

IMHO that means run the largest legally engineerable tyre on road, and run a second set of off road tyres with transfer gearing only. It will mean road gearing will suck with the big tyres on, but that's only to and from a trip, off road it will be fine, and the car is legal in its road driving configuration.

Under those circumstances, I'd be running a 9/34 swamper for off road work, because there's no need to retain any concession to road driving, and the narrowness of the swamper makes them easier on the driveline and easier to get to tuck under the guards.

[got_bar_work]

34 with the manual and only 4.2 would suck on and off road
I find droping down step steps that it not low enough with 31
Go a Sierra case with Lower gears or a auto
What are u going to do for drive line strength
31 and gears can destroy cv and axels so 34 are going to make a mess
U have a body lift so u could easily fit the 34

[Gwagensteve]

I disagree. Crawl ratio comes out at 78:1 - that's plenty low for a short 34 in my opinion. It's certainly low enough for a those tyres in a Sierra. I have no doubt it would suck on road, but I'm not advocating running a 34 on road, precisely because of the hassles of gearing any tyre on a vitara for on road use.

I agree an auto would be preferable, but that's regardless of tyres or gearing, auto's are just better off road.

Vitara driveline strengthening is well documented as required at 31" with lockers, regardless of the type of tyre used, so the same upgrades would be required regardless. More traction and ground clearance doesn't necessarily make the car harder on parts though because you don't have to flog the car as hard to make the obstacle. It's big bounces that tend to break things, and that's a byproduct of having to use momentum to force the car up something it lacks the traction or clearance to drive.

Steve.

[DarkHorse]

I already have 31s engineered, so hopefully he won't retrospectively downgrade that.

Gearing:
Config..............................................5th Hi...................1st Low
Stock (Standard gearing on 215s)........93kph@3000rpm......67m/min@1000rpm
Current (Standard gearing on 31s)......101kph@3000rpm....72m/min@1000rpm
4.2s + 31s Hi/34s Lo........................101kph@3000rpm....34m/min@1000rpm
Undertaker + 31s Hi/34s Lo...............67kph@3000rpm......53m/min@1000rpm

So, as expected Undertaker would be undriveable on 31s on the road, but better than stock with 34s offroad.

4.2 transfer would maintain my barely acceptable gearing onroad, but give me a crawl speed on 34s of about 1/2 stock. Sounds pretty good to me - why would that suck? Still not low enough?

For the sake of interest, 6.5s in a Sierra case (1.41 Hi) would give me 71kph on 31s and 22m/min on 34s, so no good for road (even on 34s I'd only get 78kph at 3000rpm in 5th Hi.)

Driveline-wise I'm working slowly towards Yota CVs, already running Calmini HD rear axles. Front airlocked and hopefully rear soon, which should reduce the need to hit things at speed. What else should I be looking at?

Oh, and I'm not going auto. Awesome as the AW4 might be, I hate the things.

[Gwagensteve]

And there's no need to use an auto to smudge out the gearing problems with the setup you are looking at - your gearing will be fine on and off road with the setup you are looking at there - transfer gears alone. I don't understand why 78:1 would be a problem off road at all - I think it's close to ideal - you should have 5 useable off road gears.

As an aside, I know it's not applicable for you, but for others searching this topic, An AW-4 is quite effective at correcting oversize tyres on road because of the T/C lock - it splits the gap between 3rd and 4th so there's quite small steps between 3rd, 4th unlocked and 4th locked.

If you are road driving your car daily, I can understand a preference for a manual. Off road, there's no contest. Manuals are a pain unless you have a line lock and very, very low gearing.

Steve.

[got_bar_work]

I find the 4.2 fine on the 31 everywhere bar coming down big rock steps
All this talk about 34 is making me start to think that I should have put in a body lift
I could clear 33 I think but that would be it

[Gwagensteve]

Rock steps are inherently high traction surfaces though - surely you can use the brakes? It's a real tradeoff - if your gearing is too low whilst descending and the car starts to overspeed the tyres, being super low won't allow you to accelerate and get the wheel speed to match the car's speed.

If 78:1 is too tall for descending, any lower would mean you'd basically loose 1st low for climbing, so it's a trade off. When set up as a 660, my sierra had 121:1 first gear and engine braking was sweet but 1st low wasn't much chop for anything. uphill. I'm back to 98:1 with the auto and I'm still climbing almost everything in 2nd/3rd low, and downhill low 1st is crazy low with the increased engine braking of the 1.6 compared to the 660 - you just hang in the seat belts if I pull 1st on a downhill.

Steve.

[sogone]

DarkHorse wrote:

I already have 31s engineered, so hopefully he won't retrospectively downgrade that.

Gearing:
Config..............................................5th Hi...................1st Low
Stock (Standard gearing on 215s)........93kph@3000rpm......67m/min@1000rpm
Current (Standard gearing on 31s)......101kph@3000rpm....72m/min@1000rpm
4.2s + 31s Hi/34s Lo........................101kph@3000rpm....34m/min@1000rpm
Undertaker + 31s Hi/34s Lo...............67kph@3000rpm......53m/min@1000rpm

So, as expected Undertaker would be undriveable on 31s on the road, but better than stock with 34s offroad.

4.2 transfer would maintain my barely acceptable gearing onroad, but give me a crawl speed on 34s of about 1/2 stock. Sounds pretty good to me - why would that suck? Still not low enough?

For the sake of interest, 6.5s in a Sierra case (1.41 Hi) would give me 71kph on 31s and 22m/min on 34s, so no good for road (even on 34s I'd only get 78kph at 3000rpm in 5th Hi.)

Driveline-wise I'm working slowly towards Yota CVs, already running Calmini HD rear axles. Front airlocked and hopefully rear soon, which should reduce the need to hit things at speed. What else should I be looking at?

Oh, and I'm not going auto. Awesome as the AW4 might be, I hate the things.

Darky. With 31's and stock Gearing are you saying your rpm at 101km/h is 3000rpm? How does this make the vitara feel? When loaded?

[DarkHorse]

Yeah, it's about that.

Feels fine once it's up and running, accelerates pretty well once off the mark. The slightest uphill slope and you're shifting back to 4th to maintain speed.

Carrying loads is similar, it still pulls OK midrange but the deceleration is more exaggerated.

[sogone]

How's ya clutch? Is there a huge difference between the Sierra an the vitara clutch mister gwagon.

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, a vitara clutch is apparently substantially better than a Sierra clutch.

Steve.

[sogone]

Sorry for the high jack. But what after market clutch is the preferred 'tougher' option for a g16b. I'm assuming you use a Sierra clutch when putting it in front of a Sierra gearbox. I bought my conversion out of a Sierra.

[Gwagensteve]

No idea. I'm an advocate of using vitara gearboxes (manual or auto) behind vitara engines, so I don't have an opinion on which clutch is best for a conversion.

Steve.

[DarkHorse]

No worries Sogone. All good info.

I fried one clutch in the wet Coffs Harbour clay going uphill on one of the medium-hard tracks, otherwise haven't had a problem. Gets warm and smelly occasionally if I'm pushing, but nothing drastic.

Back on topic, I have appointment for a chat with the engineer on Thursday, so will know more then. Hopefully have the power steering fixed by then too...

[gregc]

I dont think anyone else answered this:

DarkHorse wrote:

How realistic would it be to find a set of beadlocks and two sets of tyres (even used) for under say $1500?

Oh, and I don't have a trailer and tracks are a good hour of cop-infested highway away, so I would be loathe to have the Swampers on for the transport sections...

So I will.

We regularly see second hand sets of 34x9.5x15 swampers floating around for around $800.

You can pick up weld in beadlocks to suit a 15" rim for $100 to $125 per wheel (plus labour if you are not a welder).

So - $1500 for two sets would be a squeeze, but you can always add the beadlocks later.

As far as running swampers and beadlocks on road vs getting pulled over - i dont think it is the tread patern or the beadlock that will be the issue - it will simply be the side of the tyre and the tyre coverage. this would be no different between running an all terrain of the same size.