[slow]

looking at changing from patrol to Zook for space reasons and am just wondering if the Calmini kit is really worth it?

i am hoping to run 31" with ratios and was considering just cutting the guards and spending the money on power increase and other mods.
but i know the difference going 4" lift made in my patrol for smoothness and traction in the rough stuff but it cost no way near what they are asking for these kits & it was available anywhere, where i am looking at getting the kit imported from the states. so when i break it i will have to wait for the part to arrive again.

just wanting general advice on these as wont to make sure i am buying the correct car and am use to a GQ running 36" extreme trecker2s with rear locker and ratios so want something that will will go close to the same places as this just a lot smaller.

[BlueSuzy]

What zook?

You will be suprised with a zook on 31's. Even 1 locker. Pootrol on 36's doesnt mean shit. Its what you like to drive/how you drive, etc

Sierra 'lift kit' will make it ride harder. They upgrade the leaf packs. Can be made softer by reducing leafs etc. There is so much info of this on here.

Calmini parts are easily sourced either in AU or US, at lowrangeoffroad or direct at calmini

You will need transfer gearing.

[Gwagensteve]

You'll need to provide much, more information than you have slow.

What car are we taking about? Sierra? Vitara? Grand Vitara?

If you are talking Sierra, there's no reason to buy a Calmini kit. In fact, if you want to run 31's, there's no reason to buy a suspension lift at all in order to fit the tyres, a 2" Body lift will clear the tyres, you can assess suspension needs separately. 2" of suspension lift id the most you can consider for a Sierra. Beyond that, flex and ride deteriorates badly. You can also just cut the guards to clear a 31.

I can't comment on your experience with your patrol, but a suspension kit won't do much to increase traction on a sierra. Lockers and tyres increase traction, suspension mods can improve flex and therefore balance so the car doesn't get unstable as easily, but they aren't really adding traction.

There will be no problem matching capability with a Patrol with 36" tyres and a rear locker. 31's, transfer gears and a rear locker will achieve roughly the same capability as you had in the patrol. A front locker and some 33's and you will comfortably outperform it, however, you need to be aware that sierras take a completely different driving style, and that can make people think they aren't as capable. A patrol will span obstacles, and with lots of compression travel and rear flex, you can hit terrain quite quickly and "carry" the car over the obstacle with momentum.

That generally doesn't work in a Sierra. The suspension lacks the compression travel to hit stuff hard and maintain control. In a sierra, you use the small size to drive lines that aren't available to a big car, so you tend to work "through" the obstacle rather than "over" the obstacle if you know what I mean. It's slower, more technical, and I find, more rewarding. It's a completely different type of performance. It's why lots of us run very, very low gearing compared to, for instance, a patrol. We're not just correcting for large tyres, we are reducing gearing well beyond that - to sometimes triple the standard reduction. It's also why lots of us favour automatics - for the low speed control.

Power upgrades are nice, for sure, but they are a low priority when putting the car together. The key is getting the gearing spot on. Once that's right, the car will perform quite well, up until the point the carby starts to give trouble. Most of us have run standard motors until they are worn out, then upgraded to an EFI motor. Gearbox choice and EFI has a far bigger impact on the drivability of the car than horsepower.

Just out of interest, if you are looking at a sierra, which Calmini kit were you looking at, and how did you arrive at that kit being the right choice? Did you look for suspension kits that "fit 31" tyres"? It's interesting because Calmini leaf spring kits aren't well liked in Australia, generally because they have very limited flex and a harsh ride. There's quite a lot of tech and feedback on here about Calmini leaf spring kits.

[slow]

sorry i am looking at a Vitara.

i will be getting a EFI one.

i get that they are going to be completely different to drive and am looking forward to a new challenge.

the main thing i want is to only have to buy things once, not have to stuff around with 10 different sets of springs etc like i did with the patrol.
i am happy to trim the crap out of the guards to make the tiers fit if there is no benefit in suspension lift and spend the money on lockers, ratios, sliders, winch & better tiers.
but i know with the patrol ti made it go from ok and having to hit everything flat out, to awesome and being able to attack a lot more challenging stuff with confidence, & if that is what putting one of these kits douse to a Zook i have no problem spending the money, but as i said i just want to spend the money in the right way.

also are the Silverstone extreme trecker mockup any good on the Zooks?

[slow]

also Gwagensteve mentioned the auto option.
are they any good?
do they lack power?
can they handle it if you put more power into them?
will i still be able to hang hoops?
or am i just dreaming of being a hoon in a Zook?

[Gwagensteve]

Oh, vitara - Hmm, that makes things more complicated.

Look for an auto. All EFI auto vitaras use the AW-4 automatic which is excellent - much better to drive off road and more tolerant of bigger than stock tyres on road. I don't know what budget you have but "putting more power into" a vitara is very expensive - basically it's a 100% custom turbo/supercharger setup. Best to start with a V6 LWB or J20 SWB - these are the most powerful standard vitaras. The auto can handle more power - the driveline might not be able to.

As for the Calmini kit in a vitara:

The worthwhile parts of the kit are the arms and front diff drop brackets. Everything else is of average or below average quality. The springs might or might not work. Many people find the fronts too stiff and rear too soft. Many people end up with OME springs and OME struts.

Shocks and struts are junk. Rear arms are irrelevant. The heim joint is rubbish. The strut spacers work with the supplied struts (which have stock travel only) but if the spacers are used with OME struts the DS front axle falls out of the diff. due to the extra travel in the OME strut.

Mirroring the capability of a 36" tyred patrol with a vitara is much much harder than with a sierra. A vitara is wider so you have less line choice. They are lower than sierras, both underbody and sills, so they get caught up more easily than a sierra and have more panels to damage when you do they are quite a bit heavier than a sierra so some of the advantage of the lightness of a sierra is eroded. They are quite stable though, and almost all have power steering.

Vitaras keep their front wheels on the ground - they rarely ever pick up a front wheel. Locking the front of a Vitara is quite worthwhile because of this - (that's where the traction is, unlike most cars) but then the front diff/axlehousing will break. You'll need a steel housing and third member.

4.2 transfer gears are an excellent choice, but there are no replacement diff ratios, so road driving with 31" tyres is marginal.

As per a Sierra, a 2" body lift is useful to help clear 31's, but it's no mandatory, a small amount of trimming will clear them. The added benefit of a body lift though is that the sills get a bit further up out of the ruts.

This is just my opinion, and others may disagree, but if you don't want to loose capability compared to your patrol, you might be better considering a sierra. Vitara's aren't a bad car at all, but they aren't as well suited to difficult terrain as a Sierra.

Steve.

[slow]

looked at a few sierra's but wife said no. (hard to find one auto / power steering)

i got $9200 for the patrol so have quite a bit of cash but as i said wont to do it right the first time so doing home work.

what diff ratios would i run for 31" - 33" tiers? (if i can find them)

found diff ratios made huge difference on patrol so assuming same for Vitara.

[SierraDan]

Put an auto/power steering in the Sierra?

[slow]

looking at these as a possible

http://tr.4xfourart.com/4xfourarten/urunic.php?id=5

http://tr.4xfourart.com/4xfourarten/urunic.php?id=3

http://tr.4xfourart.com/4xfourarten/urunic.php?id=46

can get all 3 shipped to aus for less than buying a kit from snake racing.

[slow]

SierraDan you got one for sale?

[SierraDan]

Got what for sale?

[slow]

Sierra with auto/power steering.
i haven't found one yet.

[Fatzook]

SierraDan wrote:

Put an auto/power steering in the Sierra?

This.

For $9K you could do the following.

mid 85-88 NT 1.3L sierra $2k ( or less)
1.6l EFI conversion with auto $3-4K ( less if you can do the work yourself. All the info is on this site already)
Fit WT diffs for better width/ articulation $1K (includes rebuilding diffs with CRMO axles/CV's in front)
2" Suspension $1200
Virtual lift, transfer gears, P/S $1500
33" Tyres and rims $1000.

Bit over your $9K, but other than for lockers (which you can add later) this will be a VERY capable rig, which the Mrs can drive.

[SierraDan]

If I were to build a Sierra again that would see daily driving.
^^^ that would be it!

[GRPABT1]

^^ what they said, or hold out until ones comes up already modified. Would get one for much less than $9K if you're willing to wait.

[wolf_rt]

I think Sierra Dan and Fatzook are on the money...

The Vitara is going to get broken trying to do things a patrol on 36's will do.
IMO, if you want to reach the same capability as your patrol a solid front axle is a must.

I came to my sierra from a patrol on 36" swampers and front locker, and i have been very impressed by the capability of the sierra (stock with reduction gears) in comparison...

The steering is pretty light without P/S on road. And isn't a must off road either.

I think if you got a sierra and had an auto fitted, you would be better off in the long run.

You should be able to find a sierra running 31's, 2"lift and reduction gears for less than $4k or so, and get an auto fitted, add a locker or 2 for well under your budget, and compare very favourably to the patrol.
or if you have the time for a more full on build, do as Fatzook sujested.

[abclarke]

Fatzook wrote:

SierraDan wrote:

Put an auto/power steering in the Sierra?

This.

For $9K you could do the following.

mid 85-88 NT 1.3L sierra $2k ( or less)
1.6l EFI conversion with auto $3-4K ( less if you can do the work yourself. All the info is on this site already)
Fit WT diffs for better width/ articulation $1K (includes rebuilding diffs with CRMO axles/CV's in front)
2" Suspension $1200
Virtual lift, transfer gears, P/S $1500
33" Tyres and rims $1000.

Bit over your $9K, but other than for lockers (which you can add later) this will be a VERY capable rig, which the Mrs can drive.

Damn that would make one nice sierra!! No air lockers though?

[vitzookman]

pick up a Grand Vitara 98 2.5L v6 model for 5G

Body lift
Locker in the rear with new diff ratios
Big Lift
Big tyres

basic 9G and it will be great off road and it will comfortable on road for the missus and have good amount of grunt.

i think a Gold Gv with this sort of mods is hanging around on this site and its in Vic too.

[atari4x4]

i've run the calmini kit for 6 years, with a bit of tweaking it works well for me.

[GRPABT1]

vitzookman wrote:

pick up a Grand Vitara 98 2.5L v6 model for 5G

Body lift
Locker in the rear with new diff ratios
Big Lift
Big tyres

basic 9G and it will be great off road and it will comfortable on road for the missus and have good amount of grunt.

i think a Gold Gv with this sort of mods is hanging around on this site and its in Vic too.

You've got to be kidding if you think a GV will keep up with a rear locked patrol on 36's and still be streetable.

[Gwagensteve]

vitzookman wrote:

pick up a Grand Vitara 98 2.5L v6 model for 5G

Body lift
Locker in the rear with new diff ratios
Big Lift
Big tyres

basic 9G and it will be great off road and it will comfortable on road for the missus and have good amount of grunt.

i think a Gold Gv with this sort of mods is hanging around on this site and its in Vic too.

Bwahahaha $9K isn't even going to cover the cost of the mods to try and get a GV to match a patrol on 36's.

It's hard enough with a vitara, let alone a GV.

Steve.

[vitzookman]

GRPABT1 wrote:

vitzookman wrote:

pick up a Grand Vitara 98 2.5L v6 model for 5G

Body lift
Locker in the rear with new diff ratios
Big Lift
Big tyres

basic 9G and it will be great off road and it will comfortable on road for the missus and have good amount of grunt.

i think a Gold Gv with this sort of mods is hanging around on this site and its in Vic too.

You've got to be kidding if you think a GV will keep up with a rear locked patrol on 36's and still be streetable.

I never said it would keep up with a patrol but if you are going to build a vitara and you need to make the misses happy too with that budget then you might as well do it with the Gv as it will do just as much and be better on road than a vit.

[atari4x4]

can you get a decent steel winch bar for GV's?

[got_bar_work]

Every thing u can do to a vit u can do to a early gv
The gv would be a way better platform to start with then a 1.6
Bigger motor
Bigger brakes
Better on road
Wider so more stable
The extra with would make lux cv mod easy
With a auto gv with 4.2 and 5:12 I recon u could go 34 and still be able to drive at some speed
Move the controll arm mounts on the diff up a few inch and run 4" lift
3" front 2" body bit of cutting
Arb both ends
Would make for a pretty fun rig
31 for around town and throw the 34 on for weekend trips

[Gwagensteve]

How about a bit of reality though? Sure, that would be a great project, but geez, there's a lot of pioneering and lots and lots of issues to contend with there. I'll tackle most fabrication type work, but ^^ all that looks like a major headache, and at the end of all that, how much better would it be than, say, a 1KZ surf or even an XJ cherokee? They're about the same size but are well supported in the aftermarket and inherently stronger.

If the benchmark for capability is a 36" tyred Patrol with a locker, and knowing Victorian terrain, I'd say that its borderline whether it's worth trying to chase that level of performance with a vitara. It might be possible to approach that performance, but I don't think the long term reliability is going to be there. Just my 2C - I've run a big car with 36's (my Gwagen) and I wouldn't want to try and follow it with a Vitara, regardless of mods (within reason), but I struggled to follow sierras on 31' with my Gwagen.

I think I'd work towards A G16/auto sierra as a project.

Steve.

[GRPABT1]

Why would he pay more to start from a less capable vehicle and then have it cost more to modify to the level he wants?

Makes zero sense to me

[Bucket]

No, the Calmini lift kit is NOT worth the money.

[vitzookman]

atari4x4 wrote:

can you get a decent steel winch bar for GV's?

98 GV has no airbags so you can make what ever you want.

[atari4x4]

Bucket wrote:

No, the Calmini lift kit is NOT worth the money.

sure it wasn't the car's problem or the owner.

[got_bar_work]

It's a lot of money for arms and diff drop brackets