[sideways]

I want to replace the 31 year old springs in my Sierra so I can get some compression travel back and clear these 30s nicely.

So basically.

I live on an unmaintained, corrugated, potholed gravel road and probably 70% of my driving is on such roads or surfaces worse than that.
I very rarely travel with any more load than 1 passenger, spare 20l of fuel, a dog, and a swag. Usually I travel solo.
My car has no weight adding features but will score a bull bar, scrub bars and sliders in the future.
It's a early 1l soft top, a fair bit lighter than a 1.3l.
No RUF and it probably never will.
I drive mostly sand and mud, rarely technical stuff. That may well (hopefully) change though.

More or less, I want around 2" of lift that will ride as well as possible.

Short of getting something custom made, can anyone recommend a spring up to the task?

I don't suppose anyone does a 6mm spring with slipper pads? Or simply 6mm springs?

I attempted to reset an old spring, I only managed to get an extra 6mm camber out of it. :/

Thanks

Hayden

[SierraDan]

Longest spring you can get. and some shocks to suit.

[SuziBlu]

Talk to OME, they set mine, brilliant.

They asked driving style, my weight, load weight, towing etc

The springs in my blue car have not sagged, they set them for my weight, are called comfort springs, nice n soft, highly recomend them.

[Gwagensteve]

OME. Order the lightest springs you can get away with. Many people order heavy springs chasing more lift and then slam the bad ride.


Steve.

[GRPABT1]

Old Man Emu tend to have a good reputation for comfort if you want something that is bolt in. I know I will get flamed but for corrugations a shackle reversal on the front would smooth the ride a bit, but PM me before you go buying Calmini stuff so I can steer you clear of the dodgey bits I've had to change.

[Gwagensteve]

No, I'm not flaming that at all. I've run SR and it was great on corrugations. Pointless everywhere else though, so not a worthwhile mod IMHO.


Steve.

[johnmath]

My SJ413 had a terrible ride when I got it (standard springs & bad choice of aftermarket shocks). I tried three different brands of shocks before I was happy with the ride (plus the original aftermarkets on the car when I bought it makes four sets!). I settled on Lovells Gas Legend, which I liked so much I bought another set as future replacements. Lovells were clearing out Sierra stuff but only listing it as Drover parts on eBay - doh!. I bought the first set of shocks for $60 each and the second for set $15 each - list was ~$180 each!!!! These shocks are made in Brazil at the same factory as all the "three letter" famous brands that cost ~$270 each. I can't say they are the same shocks, but I am sure they are the same quality.

I did have a problem with disintegrating lower eye bushes on the front shocks after a rather nasty trip along a washed out Oodnadatta track, so I replaced the bushes with urethane The rear bushes are much better, but I replaced them as well with urethane, just to be sure. I do a lot of dirt road and off road trekking and after 12 months with these shocks I am still very happy with the ride and the handling performance of the shocks. Lovells make comfort springs too, so it might be worth a phone call to see if they still have any Drover (Sierra) stuff left. http://www.lovellsauto.com.au/index.php

[johnmath]

Just found someone selling Lovells shocks cheap on Gumtree:

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/carringt ... 1000423860

[SierraDan]

You don't want Lovells.

[GRPABT1]

Gwagensteve wrote:

No, I'm not flaming that at all. I've run SR and it was great on corrugations. Pointless everywhere else though, so not a worthwhile mod IMHO.


Steve.

It's also a way of gaining a couple inches of lift in the front whilst still running flat leaf packs spua and the ability to clear bigger tyres with bump stop spacers and still retain some up travel. Also doesn't seem to kill the approach angle as much as RUF. But each to their own.

[2stroker]

Firstly correctly done a RUF does not "kill" approach angle

Secondly shackle reversal is not seen on any factory short wheel base vehicle because it tends to make the vehicle behave concerningly under heavy braking, it also moves the tyre back toward the firewall under compression and there is not much clearance there on a sierra to start with, it also compresses the driveshaft spline instead of it sliding out so you need to be carefull of binding. Shackle reversal does however have its advantages in ride, reducing bump steer, and not having the shackle dig into the rocks or embankment like a plough.

I read a lot about the pro's and con's but still had to try it myself in a 1 litre hard top sierra I had back in the 90's, at first I though it was great but as the weeks turned to months I realized I was just trying to convince myself that all my hard work was worth while, I have never done another, that is not because it was a disaster it was just that it didn't make enough difference to warrant the work, a RUF was just so much easier and really was a noticeable improvement.

[ajsr]

2stroker wrote:

Firstly correctly done a RUF does not "kill" approach angle

Secondly shackle reversal is not seen on any factory short wheel base vehicle because it tends to make the vehicle behave concerningly under heavy braking, it also moves the tyre back toward the firewall under compression and there is not much clearance there on a sierra to start with, it also compresses the driveshaft spline instead of it sliding out so you need to be carefull of binding. Shackle reversal does however have its advantages in ride, reducing bump steer, and not having the shackle dig into the rocks or embankment like a plough.

I read a lot about the pro's and con's but still had to try it myself in a 1 litre hard top sierra I had back in the 90's, at first I though it was great but as the weeks turned to months I realized I was just trying to convince myself that all my hard work was worth while, I have never done another, that is not because it was a disaster it was just that it didn't make enough difference to warrant the work, a RUF was just so much easier and really was a noticeable improvement.

Dude your old




but then that would make me old too

[JrZook]

2stroker wrote:

Firstly correctly done a RUF does not "kill" approach angle

Does slightly reduce it tho...


Sideways:

Apart from getting custom springs made, go for the OME light/medium duty packs as a bolt in solution. They are 6mm leafs with slipper pad in between them and ride fairly decently for an off the shelf pack.

If you are seeking ride comfort do not skimp out on descent shockies!! Shit shocks on good springs and visa-versa will result in poor comfort. I personally run Koni 80 series shocks which are oil filled (not gas/oil) these work very well at speed on all sorts of terrain!

Now slight deviation on springs! The best leafs out there are stock sierra leafs!! These are tapered 6mm leafs meaning the thin out on the ends giving a greater variation in spring rate. Since you are not keen on doing RUF my suggestion would be to get a set of std good condition leafs and get a new set of 6mm mains made up for them all ~10 longer. This will set you up with virtually the same spring pack as OME but gain additional comfort by using the tapered sierra leafs!

Something to think about

Dan

[alien]

i've not read everyones replies... but what about a 2" body lift and keep the stock springs, and buy some new shocks? the old springs are going to be about as soft as you'll get, the bodylift will give you your compression back and the new shocks should smooth the rest out. Obviously you might need to mess with shock lengths and bumpstops but that shouldnt be too hard.

[GRPABT1]

alien wrote:

i've not read everyones replies... but what about a 2" body lift and keep the stock springs, and buy some new shocks? the old springs are going to be about as soft as you'll get, the bodylift will give you your compression back and the new shocks should smooth the rest out. Obviously you might need to mess with shock lengths and bumpstops but that shouldnt be too hard.

^ this plus the custom main leaf makes sense

[2stroker]

JrZook is right, stock sierra leaf springs are very good springs and Koni adjustable oils are my first choice, I have standard sierra rears front and back in my LJ mated to Konis. JR mine are 80's do you know what yours are from i.e. what 4 digits follow 80 on your front and rears.

[JrZook]

Koni fronts: 80-2157SP1
Koni rears: 80-1905

Dan

[2stroker]

Ok so are they Landcruiser shockies in the front and Celica in the rear is that right?

I am not sure of the numbers on mine I will have a look later but mine being LJ normally is eye bottom and pin top both front and rear however I have front hoops and run eye/eye at the front. From memory the rears may have been early Holden rears like Torana maybe.

[sideways]

johnmath wrote:

My SJ413 had a terrible ride when I got it (standard springs & bad choice of aftermarket shocks). I tried three different brands of shocks before I was happy with the ride (plus the original aftermarkets on the car when I bought it makes four sets!). I settled on Lovells Gas Legend, which I liked so much I bought another set as future replacements. Lovells were clearing out Sierra stuff but only listing it as Drover parts on eBay - doh!. I bought the first set of shocks for $60 each and the second for set $15 each - list was ~$180 each!!!! These shocks are made in Brazil at the same factory as all the "three letter" famous brands that cost ~$270 each. I can't say they are the same shocks, but I am sure they are the same quality.

I did have a problem with disintegrating lower eye bushes on the front shocks after a rather nasty trip along a washed out Oodnadatta track, so I replaced the bushes with urethane The rear bushes are much better, but I replaced them as well with urethane, just to be sure. I do a lot of dirt road and off road trekking and after 12 months with these shocks I am still very happy with the ride and the handling performance of the shocks. Lovells make comfort springs too, so it might be worth a phone call to see if they still have any Drover (Sierra) stuff left. http://www.lovellsauto.com.au/index.php

Lovels do seem to have a good reputation, though the nearest dealer is 500kms away. I've always been quite interested in their reverse wrap spring, not really sure what the point of them is though.

GRPABT1 wrote:

Old Man Emu tend to have a good reputation for comfort if you want something that is bolt in. I know I will get flamed but for corrugations a shackle reversal on the front would smooth the ride a bit, but PM me before you go buying Calmini stuff so I can steer you clear of the dodgey bits I've had to change.

OME certainly seem to be "the ones" for comfort, if not somewhat suspect quality.

If I went for a shackle reversal then I'd steer clear of Calmini stuff. Their products just seem to lack in design thought.

2stroker wrote:

Firstly correctly done a RUF does not "kill" approach angle

Secondly shackle reversal is not seen on any factory short wheel base vehicle because it tends to make the vehicle behave concerningly under heavy braking, it also moves the tyre back toward the firewall under compression and there is not much clearance there on a sierra to start with, it also compresses the driveshaft spline instead of it sliding out so you need to be carefull of binding. Shackle reversal does however have its advantages in ride, reducing bump steer, and not having the shackle dig into the rocks or embankment like a plough.

I read a lot about the pro's and con's but still had to try it myself in a 1 litre hard top sierra I had back in the 90's, at first I though it was great but as the weeks turned to months I realized I was just trying to convince myself that all my hard work was worth while, I have never done another, that is not because it was a disaster it was just that it didn't make enough difference to warrant the work, a RUF was just so much easier and really was a noticeable improvement.

SWB series Land Rovers do, but I'm not sure if they actually have suspension at all. Or brakes... or handling for that matter....

I'm not avoiding a RUF because it reduces approach angle, more because I'l have to sell this car one day and it'd be harder to sell with mods like that. Even with a RUF you can easily make the approach angle better than standard with a well designed bar. Given the stuff I drive, approach angle isn't a problem anyway.

Aside from the 3 disadvantages you listed, are there any others worth mentioning? I've researched shackle reversal before but have never been able to find anything definitive.

JrZook wrote:

2stroker wrote:

Firstly correctly done a RUF does not "kill" approach angle

Does slightly reduce it tho...


Sideways:

Apart from getting custom springs made, go for the OME light/medium duty packs as a bolt in solution. They are 6mm leafs with slipper pad in between them and ride fairly decently for an off the shelf pack.

If you are seeking ride comfort do not skimp out on descent shockies!! Shit shocks on good springs and visa-versa will result in poor comfort. I personally run Koni 80 series shocks which are oil filled (not gas/oil) these work very well at speed on all sorts of terrain!

Now slight deviation on springs! The best leafs out there are stock sierra leafs!! These are tapered 6mm leafs meaning the thin out on the ends giving a greater variation in spring rate. Since you are not keen on doing RUF my suggestion would be to get a set of std good condition leafs and get a new set of 6mm mains made up for them all ~10 longer. This will set you up with virtually the same spring pack as OME but gain additional comfort by using the tapered sierra leafs!

Something to think about

Dan

Those Konis are bloody expensive! Right now it's got Aussie Ryder shocks in the front and I can't tell what the ones in the back are because they've leaked oil all over themselves.

I agree on the standard Sierra springs, these ones have been doing their job for 31 years!

As a side note, standard early 1l front springs (unless I just happen to have 2 1981 Sierras with the same aftermarket springs) consist of 3 leaves, the bottom one is 320mm long and tapered, the next is military wrap on the shackle end only but interestingly, still tapered both ends. The main leaf is... well a main leaf. The bottom spring is 6mm thick and the others are 7mm.

Obviously, that's a pretty soft spring. Well it would be if they weren't so rusted together. :/ I tried to reset one of these but I didn't really have enough time I think. I had it compressed with approx 350mm of camber for half an hour and only got 6mm extra free camber out of it. I reckon I'd be pretty happy if I could get some decent camber into these, clean them up and maybe install some slipper pads.

I've read that springs are tapered not to give a variable rate, but to reduce the friction on each other as the move, Unless you mean taper thickness wise?

Boy would I love some parabolic springs.

alien wrote:

i've not read everyones replies... but what about a 2" body lift and keep the stock springs, and buy some new shocks? the old springs are going to be about as soft as you'll get, the bodylift will give you your compression back and the new shocks should smooth the rest out. Obviously you might need to mess with shock lengths and bumpstops but that shouldnt be too hard.

That doesn't solve my compression travel issue though, I've only got 40mm of up travel right now and I haven't put bump stop spacing in for the 30s yet. These springs are so sagged they're inverted.

I'd rather the advantages of better ramp over angle ect from spring lift anyway. Besides, I don't fancy undoing all those 31 year old bolts to do a body lift! Been there, done that.

Thanks

Hayden

[rick1970]

I have changed springs, shocks, done a RUF but the mod that made the most differance to driver comfort on rough roads was the Recaro drivers seat.

[SierraDan]

Lovells is crap. Half the guys making them are off their head on something. Its a gamble whether you will get a reasonable spring.

[GRPABT1]

I've also heard of lovells zook springs being shit, can't comment on the shocks though. For what it's worth if you are interested in the shackle reversal I have not had any of the abnormal braking or driveshaft problems mentioned (I just run spacers, will get a custom shaft eventually), I have done some firewall massaging though to fit the tyres but with a 2" BL I can fit 34's comfortably without rubbing. I think sky make a shackle reversal kit also but I cannot comment on it's quality as I've got the Calmini stuff. You hit the nail on the head with their lack of thought process though but the essential parts of the shackle reversal kit are not bad, will divulge more if you are interested.

Another shock to add to the list that I personally really like are the boss offroad adjustables, I run them in the rear and wish I had them all round. They go for about $205 a shock I believe.

[alien]

my bluemax shocks have been great for me thus far, and they got my zuk through the lane change test too, so goes to prove they handle well.