[mud_muncher]

Mine have gone at the cv itself (as good as impossible with double tough) or right next to cv (sheared axle). So i say these will be a bloody big improvment even over birfield rings (which I paid $400 complete second hand alone). Put me down for a set and I can either pay a deposit now or the whole lot when you find how much the spacers will be as well. I just need to find out how to get the old one it (jammed in at the pumpkin):D

[Highway-Star]

alien wrote:

31zook wrote:

HyTuff, is 50% stronger then chromo anyway.

Does that mean its 50% more brittle or allows 50% more flex?

I had saved somewhere on my dead PC the material properties for it..... but from memory its a higher yield strength being referred to, and it is not a brittle material.


As for the 22 spline thing, I personally would have gone 26, but thats not because I believe the 22 will fail (I just would have done it). The issue isn't so much the diameter at the diff end (good chance a 22 spline Hy-Tuff shaft would be plenty strong enough), the potential issue is the necking down will create a stress concentration point (22 spline LJ50 or early 80 rear axles being a good example). I am actually quite keen to see how a few sets of these necked down shafts will hold out, as it will be a good indication of how over engineered my LJ's front end is

[SierraDan]

Yeah, higher yield strength.

[kyzermattingley]

Interested in how this all turned out, have a thought that ill be finding the limit of my Jim's CVs soon. Any news?

[SierraDan]

Go back a page.

[31zook]

Just doing the final details. PM me if you are serious.

[kyzermattingley]

Any chance you could get some 26spline axles done in the same production run, if so I'd be totally 100% down like china town

Kyzer

[31zook]

Currently not going to do a 26spline axle set.

[gjb977]

Interested how this goes as well. I haven't the funds at the moment...but maybe in the future.

[Gwagensteve]

31zook wrote:

HyTuff, is 50% stronger then chromo anyway.

I was interested in this figure, so did some research.

Here's some data on common materials used for axle manufacture.

1020 or 1040 steel is likely to be the most common used for factory axles.

Trail tough Doubletough front axles, Trail-gear Rock-assault axles are 4340

All data is for ultimate strength in MPa. Yield strength is below this figure, but it's only a comparative table.

1020: 420MPa
1040: 518 MPa
4130: 590-670 MPa
4140: 850-1000 MPA
4340: 930-1080 MPa
EN-26: 1000-1150 MPa
HY-TUF: 1520 MPa
300M: 1931 MPa

I haven't bothered listing surface hardness for all these, but it is a factor as if, for instance, a hub fails and slips a spline, a material with lower surface hardness might render an axle unusable even though the it's not broken.

If HY-TUF is affordable and available, it does certainly look to be a very good option. After having one floater axle break on the tour this year, we've been looking at stronger alternative, and increasing axle diameter. Increasing axle diameter whilst keeping a vitara/sierra housing is possible, but quite expensive. From that table, it might well be worth considering some HY-TUF axles in place of our EN-26 axles before we upgrade to 31 spline and burn huge wads of cash.

I understand that 300M is difficult to source and heat treat in Australia. Our axle builder did want to deal with it due to problems he's experienced with it warping and required straightening and re-machining in Melbourne.

From the basis of that table, I think you will get away with a 22 spline inner axle with Hy-Tuf. A 22 spline axle is 25% smaller in diameter than a 26 spline axle, but your material is 50% stronger.

I'll be interested to see how you go. I may well be interested to see if some floater rear axles could be made up in Hy-Tuf as it looks to be a significant improvement over EN-26. Based on the fact we've now broken an EN-26 axle without uni, gear or Mini-Spool failure, I'd have to say I wouldn't recommend anything weaker than EN-26 for use in the rear.

Steve.

[skyman]

There is a guy named dean on Pirate who has made shafts out of 300M for a customer of aftermarket 4x4. I hear they are working out excellent. I do not know what the import sutff would cost 9if they go over the magic $1000 mark), but I would contact him and suss it out, it may be worthwhile.

I believe he goes by the name of performance cryogenics. Let me see if I can find a link.

Here you go, his user name is 66CJdean. It sounds like he will build just about anything you order, and he does 300M The thread is below. Read through page 2 to get the most out of the thread. Sure hope it helps.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... s+customer

[31zook]

Steve brings the tech if the right person reads thread they might PM you about building a set of HyTuff's

Thanks skyman.

[Highway-Star]

Well incase you guys are interested, I killed a Ring gear in the front of my LJ this morning, but the Chinese Jimny locker, Hy-Tuff shafts and Chromo CV's are still all OK

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'll be interested to see how you go. I may well be interested to see if some floater rear axles could be made up in Hy-Tuf as it looks to be a significant improvement over EN-26. Based on the fact we've now broken an EN-26 axle without uni, gear or Mini-Spool failure, I'd have to say I wouldn't recommend anything weaker than EN-26 for use in the rear.

Steve.

A few of us up here are hoping to get Hy-Tuff floaters for WT diffs made up some time later this year (same guy who made our LJ shafts will be making them). I could let you know when we do go ahead with it if you are keen.

[Gwagensteve]

We may well be interested. We have 6 floaters in the club and have one car with each style off the road (WT based and Vitara based) available to measure off of.

I might take a set of measurements shortly so I can move forward with this if we have more breakage.

I'd like to compare the cost of HY-TUF vs 300m via the US though too.

Steve.

[joel]

Gwagensteve wrote:

We may well be interested. We have 6 floaters in the club and have one car with each style off the road (WT based and Vitara based) available to measure off of.

I might take a set of measurements shortly so I can move forward with this if we have more breakage.

I'd like to compare the cost of HY-TUF vs 300m via the US though too.

Steve.

steve, go gentle on me.
but can you explain how a floater kit works and its advantages please.

[alien]

floater kit in the rear makes the rear axle work like the front - in that its supported by the hub and bearings are servicable much more easily... so you can break a rear axle and your wheel wont go flopping about like a fish out of water.

[SierraDan]

Thats just a bonus though alien. The good part about the floater is the fact the axle isnt bearing the load of the car and the torque put through it. In a floater its only doing the drive duties, not the load bearing duties. Hence "floating" axle.

[alien]

oh yeh i missed that part... lol

can't wait to get mine fitted. the extra super advantage im looking forward to in terms of daily driving is the rear disc conversion that goes with it.

[Gwagensteve]

(took me a while to write this - I see there have been some other posts, I hope mine adds something.)

Sierras, Vitara's and Jimny's use a Semi Floating axle.

A semi floating axle has one wheel bearing at the wheel end of the axle which is pressed on to the axle shaft. The weight of the car is borne by the axle shaft. Here's a diagram:



The orange bit represents the diff centre.

Semifloating axles are used in most light and medium duty vehicles. They are thick at the wheel end to prevent them flexing due to the weight of the car on a single bearing, however, that concentrates the twist the axle sees to the thinnest bit right near the diff. (Guess where they break )

Here is a full floating axle:



The front hub/wheelbearing arrangement of a sierra is "full floating" The weight of the car is borne by the spindle.

With a full-floater, the weight of the car is borne by the axle housing, not the axle. The axle exists just to turn the wheel. Both ends "float" - there's no weight on them.

when an axle doesn't see the weight of the car any more, the load is only torsional. There's no other load on the axle. The result is that the axle can near up to 40% more twist than a semifloat axle because it's not trying to be twisted and bent at the same time.

We've used Sierra front hubs on the back of our floater converted axles. There's other benefits- you can drive home on a broken axle, because the axle doesn't retain the wheel. You get a "free" disc brake conversion using front callipers, and the rear bearings can be rebuilt and tensioned easily - you don't have to grind a bearing off.

We know we're trying to drive bigger tyres with more gearing than is sensible, so using a full floating conversion "cheats" us some axle strength by taking the weight off the car off of them, and because the axle can be the asme diameter full length, they can be very flexy. It's this flex that helps the axle to live. If they don't flex, they snap.

Hope this helps

Steve.

[got_bar_work]

Highway-Star wrote:

Well incase you guys are interested, I killed a Ring gear in the front of my LJ this morning, but the Chinese Jimny locker, Hy-Tuff shafts and Chromo CV's are still all OK

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'll be interested to see how you go. I may well be interested to see if some floater rear axles could be made up in Hy-Tuf as it looks to be a significant improvement over EN-26. Based on the fact we've now broken an EN-26 axle without uni, gear or Mini-Spool failure, I'd have to say I wouldn't recommend anything weaker than EN-26 for use in the rear.

Steve.

A few of us up here are hoping to get Hy-Tuff floaters for WT diffs made up some time later this year (same guy who made our LJ shafts will be making them). I could let you know when we do go ahead with it if you are keen.

Can ur guy make Hy-Tuff inner cv and axels for vits so we can ue Sierra dubble tuff cv and hubs on the outers

[Highway-Star]

got_bar_work wrote:

Highway-Star wrote:

Well incase you guys are interested, I killed a Ring gear in the front of my LJ this morning, but the Chinese Jimny locker, Hy-Tuff shafts and Chromo CV's are still all OK

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'll be interested to see how you go. I may well be interested to see if some floater rear axles could be made up in Hy-Tuf as it looks to be a significant improvement over EN-26. Based on the fact we've now broken an EN-26 axle without uni, gear or Mini-Spool failure, I'd have to say I wouldn't recommend anything weaker than EN-26 for use in the rear.

Steve.

A few of us up here are hoping to get Hy-Tuff floaters for WT diffs made up some time later this year (same guy who made our LJ shafts will be making them). I could let you know when we do go ahead with it if you are keen.

Can ur guy make Hy-Tuff inner cv and axels for vits so we can ue Sierra dubble tuff cv and hubs on the outers

Maybe...
We don't know the specifics of a Vit front end (and are all to busy to go researching one when none of us run those cars); someone else would want to do the R&D on exactly what the shafts etc has to be. If you could give him a technical drawing of what you are after, he could possibly machine it. As for a hy-tuff CV, I floated that idea once before.... I think I crossed the "line".... though he didn't outright say no .

[tanshi]

got_bar_work wrote:

Highway-Star wrote:

Well incase you guys are interested, I killed a Ring gear in the front of my LJ this morning, but the Chinese Jimny locker, Hy-Tuff shafts and Chromo CV's are still all OK

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'll be interested to see how you go. I may well be interested to see if some floater rear axles could be made up in Hy-Tuf as it looks to be a significant improvement over EN-26. Based on the fact we've now broken an EN-26 axle without uni, gear or Mini-Spool failure, I'd have to say I wouldn't recommend anything weaker than EN-26 for use in the rear.

Steve.

A few of us up here are hoping to get Hy-Tuff floaters for WT diffs made up some time later this year (same guy who made our LJ shafts will be making them). I could let you know when we do go ahead with it if you are keen.

Can ur guy make Hy-Tuff inner cv and axels for vits so we can ue Sierra dubble tuff cv and hubs on the outers

i would have thought fitting IFS lux cvs would have been a better option anyway wouldnt it?

[got_bar_work]

That what will probly happen
I think they would be strong enough for me as I'm only on 31's
I just hate having to worry about braking them all the time
I want to be able to put the boot in when I need to and not have to think "is this going to kill me cv again"

[joel]

thanks all for the education on the floater setup!

[31zook]

Hi, after talking to the bloke thats making the axles up he said that he can't make up one set as a test piece as the heat treating will cost too much for one set.

so im getting final number, the more people the less it will cost.
Currently the total is looking like $750 plus postage. Thats for Sierra Chromo CVs, and HyTuff 22spline axles.

If you need FWH spacers it will be another $60. As benT is doing a one off custom run for us.

If you have money or are within a week of it. let me know and ill send you my bank details.

Josh.

[jonno_racing]

thats cheep as chips hey!!! pitty i can nowhere near afford that at this point! have you advertised them anywhere else?

[31zook]

i only looking for people who i can trust as ill be handling a fair bit of money.

also for those I've PM'd, reply and let me know if your keen or not. if you don't reply ill come after you.

[zooky08]

So are the spacers the same as his original ones or are they a new length/width?

[SierraDan]

New size to suit the Sierra CV.

[zooky08]

Bummer already got two sets. Was gonna slap to rings together