[Damo]

11_evl wrote:

For sure if you have it all there.
What stage are you at with your gas setup?

Only just recently considered LPG to be honest, just doing some sniffing to see if I should or not.

I should really be concentrating on putting my rear diff back together and get it back under the zook

[Damo]

Despite all that I did have a look at the TBI manifold for the 16v Swift head I have. I pulled off the throttle body and injector assembly and found that the throttle body dia is 38mm, and that matches up with the hole in the manifold.

It seems pretty small but it will probably work OK. I was wondering should I mess around putting a larger dia throttle body on or just leave it.

Pic of the manifold with throttle body and injector assembly removed.

[11_evl]

Or you could use a falcon CPI throttle body setup

[Damo]

Please explain?

[royce]

tee hee Jocks wrong, Propane is power, Butane is filler to make it cheap.

if you buy gas in rural areas you are more likely to get straight propane as they use the same tanker to fill the auto lpg tanks as the cooking and heating tanks which all need propane

and LPG is so much better for running an engine on its not funny, its already a gas so it doesnt have to atomise like fuel, its higher octane, there is no carbon so your oil lasts longer.

[11_evl]

fuel line, injectors, and tps all in one unit. i have a plate to mount it to the std 1.3 manifold. i was going that route for a bit with wolf ecu.

[Damo]

11_evl wrote:

fuel line, injectors, and tps all in one unit. i have a plate to mount it to the std 1.3 manifold. i was going that route for a bit with wolf ecu.

I must be missing something, I want to put the thing on LPG not EFI.

[11_evl]

whoops. i must of read you last stuff wrong.

[Damo]

11_evl wrote:

whoops. i must of read you last stuff wrong.

Mixer > throttle body > manifold

right?

[11_evl]

[quote="Damo"]Despite all that I did have a look at the TBI manifold for the 16v Swift head I have. I pulled off the throttle body and injector assembly and found that the throttle body dia is 38mm, and that matches up with the hole in the manifold.

It seems pretty small but it will probably work OK. I was wondering should I mess around putting a larger dia throttle body on or just leave it.

Pic of the manifold with throttle body and injector assembly removed.

[quote]
i just read that and thought you were thinking LPG as an after thought cus the swift stuff was too hard. thats why i gave the option of the falcon center point

[Damo]

11_evl wrote:

Damo wrote:

Despite all that I did have a look at the TBI manifold for the 16v Swift head I have. I pulled off the throttle body and injector assembly and found that the throttle body dia is 38mm, and that matches up with the hole in the manifold.

It seems pretty small but it will probably work OK. I was wondering should I mess around putting a larger dia throttle body on or just leave it.

Pic of the manifold with throttle body and injector assembly removed.

Quote:

i just read that and thought you were thinking LPG as an after thought cus the swift stuff was too hard. thats why i gave the option of the falcon center point

Nah EFI is doable in any case, just interested in looking at LPG as an option. The manifold is OK, just not sure if I should use the 38mm Swift throttle body or go to something bigger. This is in a forced induction application btw.

[TZAR]

royce wrote:

tee hee Jocks wrong, Propane is power, Butane is filler to make it cheap.

if you buy gas in rural areas you are more likely to get straight propane as they use the same tanker to fill the auto lpg tanks as the cooking and heating tanks which all need propane

and LPG is so much better for running an engine on its not funny, its already a gas so it doesnt have to atomise like fuel, its higher octane, there is no carbon so your oil lasts longer.

Lpg has carbon

Propane is C3H8 ( three carbom atoms and 8 hydrogen)
Butane is C4H10 (four carbon atoms and 10 hyrdogen atoms)
Gasoline is many differwent variants

Caltex use a process in which they convert butane to petrol so it ain't filler its part of the gas.

butane and propane have almost the same power rating. They produce the same amount of power per pound of gas so propane ain't power its the same.

Bahh.... DVD time

[royce]

then why isnt lpg 100% Butane?
why do most gas appliances need to run on 100% propane?
why do shitty gas cannisters that you buy from crazy bargains for 50c run like shit compared to the good ones?

why does oil in gas only engines not go black?
why do taxi engines clock up 1000000km?

why do you always change the subject when you cant back up your argument

[Damo]

Why do people insist on having penis swordfights in my threads

[Rockhopper]

royce wrote:

then why isnt lpg 100% Butane?
why do most gas appliances need to run on 100% propane?
why do shitty gas cannisters that you buy from crazy bargains for 50c run like shit compared to the good ones?

why does oil in gas only engines not go black?
why do taxi engines clock up 1000000km?

why do you always change the subject when you cant back up your argument

I agree that butane is used as a filler. That's what I've been taught, and freinds of mine that own a LPG workshop will also agree.
Oil in gas engines does not go black, because LPG burns cleaner than petrol and does not contaminate the oil like petrol. But, because the oil will still look clean after 10000Km, does'nt mean you can extend the service intervals. Oil still breaks down and loses it's lubricating qualities with use and as such should still be replaced at the manufacturer intervals.
Taxi cabs will often clock up 1000000kms + due to their duty cycle. Because they run pretty much 24/7 the engines are always at operating temperature which prolongs engine life. Most taxi cabs that operate 24/7 will still get an oil change once a week.

[TZAR]

royce wrote:

then why isnt lpg 100% Butane?
why do most gas appliances need to run on 100% propane?
why do shitty gas cannisters that you buy from crazy bargains for 50c run like shit compared to the good ones?

why does oil in gas only engines not go black?
why do taxi engines clock up 1000000km?

why do you always change the subject when you cant back up your argument

my answers are already there. If you read the posts you will understand. Would you like me to change your diaper too Royce? peaceout

Butane has just as much power as propane.

Butane doesn't like low tempuratures this is why when you are camping and its cold with your 50 cent catridges is that there is a very low vapour pressure as the gas is staying a liquid because it turns from a gas to a liquid to a gas at 0 degress, If you make it warm by having in your pocket for 20 mins before using it will work fine. ( tight arse tip #4567)

This is why they recommond that when you have a duel fuel car you start your car on petrol and get the car warm because the gas warmer ( the thing with hot water coming through it) needs the car to be at operating temp to be FULLY effective. This helps the gas turn from a liquid to a gas more constantly. I know it stops everything freezing up to but do you see how if it froze things up, then the butane would stay a liquid and would over fuel, causing bad engine running?

Gas appliances don't have warmers in them, and people don't want to wait for it to warm up with a bad flame before it gets working.

And why would Caltex use a product they can turn into petrol as a "filler"
Google "poly gasoline" and you will understand.

Also click the link and see the prices. Propane is cheaper to buy so why do you add a filler that costs more?

http://www.lpgaustralia.com.au/displayc ... iclenbr=11

Sorry about your filler gas claim, but I think facts tell a different story

On garde!

[Damo]

Here's a question, do I have to have a catalytic converter in my exhaust system if running only on LPG?

[royce]

good question, I know when doing engine conversions in post 86 cars with pre 86 engines the only way to pass the emissions part of it is straight LPG, not sure on the cat

and Jock, no answers still, just links and references to other posts that have no answers, where are links to the energy values of both gasses?

[Damo]

Would be awesome if you dont need to run a cat on it. Cheaper too!!!

[TZAR]

page 2 direct comparision

http://www.altenergy.com/Downloads/PDF_ ... ataPDF.PDF

[TZAR]

Damo wrote:

Here's a question, do I have to have a catalytic converter in my exhaust system if running only on LPG?

I am pretty sure you have to remove the whole fuel system then you can have no cat. That means fuel pump, fuel tank, carby etc.

Not sure on that though. Pay to check with your engineer/qld transport

[TZAR]

check these standard
AS 1425--1989 LP gas fuel systems for vehicle engines
Design and construction of LP gas fuel systems for motor vehicle engines

[11_evl]

just run a cat. will make the car quieter as well

[ajsr]

TZAR wrote:

page 2 direct comparision

http://www.altenergy.com/Downloads/PDF_ ... ataPDF.PDF

An interesting comparison TZAR however these figures only work on energy output BTU (british thermal units) which are only applicable to heaters,stoves etc.

I rang my mate (gas development engineer) today on a unrealated issue. He was very very busy at the time but he assures me that propane is a better option particularly in high performance and turbo options.
It has something to do with burn speeds under compression and propane apparently has a higher octane rating over 10 pionts (which is shitloads)due to its composition.
A little more propane is required however compared to butane, 2-3% apparently.
this bloke help delelop diesel gas and diesel natural gas thats being tested by some waste dispoasl companies,I can assure LPG is his life.
cheers andrew.
ps that gas heater thingy is called a converter

[TZAR]

ajsr wrote:

TZAR wrote:

page 2 direct comparision

http://www.altenergy.com/Downloads/PDF_ ... ataPDF.PDF

An interesting comparison TZAR however these figures only work on energy output BTU (british thermal units) which are only applicable to heaters,stoves etc.

No this is the old style of measuring energy. The conversion is 1 BTU = 1055.05585 joules

The modern equilvant is a Joule. You know like Kilojoule KJ ( 1000 joules)what fat people count (mega joule) MJ etc etc

[ajsr]

lol yeah I know kj
but still they may have similar btu or kj ratings but are vastly different in other areas.

[11_evl]

i have some of these available if anyone is interested.
$40 each.
there is only 1x maybe 2x of the tube ones

[Rockhopper]

This thread has got me thinking. I've already got a gas convertor off a Toyota forklift, and I'm going to source a donut mixer off the same type of fork. Toyota forks have Aisin carbies on them so I'm hoping the mixer will fit over the top of the Sierra carb. All I'll need then is a couple of lock off's for the LPG and fuel system, a three way switch, a suitable gas tank, and some hoses and gas line made up, and I should be able to convert the old girl to duel fuel. Any suggestions where I can mount the filler neck for the LPG? I'm pretty sure inside the car is illegal, and even though I have seen them before on the rear bumper, I'm not entirely sure that is legal either. I don't want to have to cut a new hole in the rear quarter because A: my car is still immaculate and I don't want to go butchering the body, and B: It looks ugly. Any idea's?

[kenn]

Yeah, spend the money on a Vit EFI motor and keep it on petrol and then you can still carry a jerry can on longer trips, and you dont have to cut your car to fit a BOMB in it

[Rockhopper]

I would if the motor was stuffed, but the engine is still in A1 condition. Most of the LPG parts I can get brand new for nothing or next to nothing with the exception of the tank . My reasons for wanting duel fuel is only partially for long range driving, but rather for cheaper running. LPG on a motor car if installed correctly is extremly reliable, and will make it no bigger a bomb threat than it is already