[Gotenham]

G16B from a 94 into a sierra 97..having trouble getting her started so wondering if could have a little brainstorm on here..

the engine is EFI 16v with the 4 pin dizzy (as its OBD1) and the ECU has two yellow plugs, one with 22 possible wires and one with 26..(anymore info you need let me know)

Iv checked all the grounds and they are all good (also constant 12v at ecu power is good aswell [C1 white cable]), i can hear the Main and Fuel Pump relays switching when the key is at on and start and they both have 12v across them at that point so the relays are good..when the switch is turned to on nothing happens, theres no "check engine" light signal from the ecu and i also checked the starter signal from the ecu (black and yellow cable) and theres nothing there either..should it be a solid 12v on start?

If i can get a rough idea of what should be getting voltage at the different key ignition positions i might be able to diagnose it that way..
Cheers for any help, if you need more info just let me know..

[royce]

black with blue should have ignition power from the relay
black white should have ignition power from the key
black yellow for start comes from the key INTO the ecu and starter, the ecu doesnt tell the starter to go

[Gotenham]

Here is exactly how i have it wired at the moment..(sorry if the scans are too big, the next size down was un-readable, let me know if they are and i can link them instead)



so in the picture above the black/yellow starter solenoid should connect to the key ignition at 'on' and 'start' aswell as ecm etc?
the other two wire check out:
Black/blue has power when ignition is 'on' and 'start', and black/white gets power from key (via IG COIL METER fuse) as diagram above

[zookz]

Try connecting your stock 1.3l Yellow/Black wire into the starter solenoid instead of the one from the vitara loom.
Worked for me

[Gotenham]

Ok I spliced the original black/yellow wire from the ignition into the black and yellow wire from the ECM..she turns over now but doesn't sound like she wants to start! The check engine light still doesnt come on either(the circuit checks out but there's no 12v from the ECM at "on") Any suggestions on what wires to test from here to narrow it down? Cheers for the help

Also noticed that I was missing a sensor cable at the top radiator pipe but can't work out what it is. Any ideas?

[appsie]

hook your temp guage wire onto that and itl go straight to the top haha. i made that mistake on mine years ago. turned the key fired it up,temp guage on redline

[grapedrank]

hey mate I came across these the other day might be what you're looking for..
http://www.kickfix.xpg.com.br/specs/95ecu1w.jpg
http://www.kickfix.xpg.com.br/specs/95ecu2w.jpg

I've got the same engine as you and it is going into my coily sometime in the next few weeks, what extractors are you planning to use? I haven't been able to find much info on which ones will fit

[Gotenham]

cheers grape, ill check it all out tomorrow after work...btw check out my build thread if your interested http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33469

[Maxx13]

The sensor in the pic that you asked about is the over-temp sensor i'm pretty sure.

It cuts power to the air-con if the engine gets too hot.

[Gotenham]

Iv got 2-60 aircon so guess i dont need that sensor
I had a look over all the connectors on the ecu and took readings for each with the ingition at 'on'...most where the same(if not very close)..
Heres a summary of what grape sent plus my measurements (the highlighted ones where too far off):
First c1


And c2


-I checked EGR sensor (c1-15) and it had IGN power at the sensor but didnt O/P 12v down LT GRN/WHT..

-On the CMP sensor (c2-3) i checked continuity between the distibuter PWR and GND pins of the plug (between BLU/BLK and BLK) and it showed B+(12.3v)..so its got good power and earth

-the HO2S controller (c2-23) i checked at the ecm and the plug but only found 0v..i also checked continuity for a potential difference between it and GND and also B+ but there was none with both which suggests to me its disconnected from everything?

Can anyone shed some light on this? And or what to check next

[Rhinoman]

The CEL voltage is suspicious, have you checked that the bulb is OK? the ECU grounds the bulb so if the lamp is off then you should measure 12V on that pin. I would expect the same with the O2 heater although that will be high impedance so you could get a lower voltage until it warms up. have you got 12V to the O2 sensor heater and CEL?

[Gotenham]

Ok, iv got it wired so the CEL gets power FROM the ecm..
Do you know where the cluster lights get their power from? Ignition? Which wire?

As above, iv got 0v at the HO2S pink controller wire where i should be getting 12v when igition is at 'on'..
Cheers for any advice

[Rhinoman]

I don't know about the cluster lights, from what I remember the CEL gets power from the black/white wire from the main relay. The Pink wire should be 0V or thereabouts when the O2 sensor is on, I would expect it to be 12V with the key on and engine off but it could be lower, check the voltage the other side of the heater to be sure.

[grapedrank]

Hey mate been reading up some more on the wiring diagrams.. The ones you have in this thread here are based on North American OBD1 engine as are the ecu voltages that i linked. The first wiring diagram in this file http://www.suzukiinfo.com/vitara/wiring ... g16a-b.pdf im 99% sure is for the engine you have (MAF sensor type 91-94, i have one too), if you look at B26 in that file it is for heated oxygen sensor and the Nth American OBD1 diagram has B26 as fuel injector #4. The wiring diagram in the file i linked for later model vitaras (95 onward i assume) has B26 as fuel injector number 4, I haven't had a chance to physically check whether B26 goes to oxy sensor or the fuel injector (my loom is still mostly intact) but I will this afternoon after work

EDIT: just checked mine, B26 is pink with black tracer and goes to oxy sensor. You should only need B26 hooked up if you have a heated oxy sensor though. If you have the pink/black wire at B26 you will need to rewire the injectors at the very least. B11 is for #1 and #4, B24 is for #2 and #3. Haven't checked what else is different

[grapedrank]

B23 is unused in that wiring diagram for early model vitaras so it would make sense that you are getting 0V from it..

[Gotenham]

Iv got sequential fuel injectors plus a hot wire MAF so i must have the late model thought i might have had the solution there..all my wiring is exactly the same as the late model diagram at the bottom, so still stuck on why B23 is 0v..

I re-wired the cluster so the BLK/WHT cable from the main and fuel pump relay powers what i had thought was the common GND (now its like it shows on the diagram)..the CEL/other cluster lights now work got a feeling we're getting close to it starting

Still turns over with no start, the only discrepancies i can still see is that GRA/RED 'inhibitor switch' circuit at A22..any ideas what that is? Sounds like the immobilizer or something..
Thanks again for the help

[abclarke]

This thread scares me... I have NO idea about this G16B conversion, im going to have to do ALOT of reading!!

[Gotenham]

I know im probs not the best preecher(seeing my cars not running yet ) but its really not that bad, im just taking it one step at a time ands its more than manageable..

Btw update, shorted A17 to GND to go into diagnostic..i got code 42 which is the CMP sensor which would explain the off voltage i got..any ideas? Im gonna re-check my wiring to the dizzy..as i said before the dizzy power and GND wires are good so its gotta be something to do with the B3 (WHT) wire..

[grapedrank]

Maybe check the voltages of the blue/black and white wires at the CMP plug? If you get 12V/5V respectively (with plug connected) then it would have to be a continuity issue on B3

[Rhinoman]

Gotenham wrote:

Still turns over with no start, the only discrepancies i can still see is that GRA/RED 'inhibitor switch' circuit at A22..any ideas what that is? Sounds like the immobilizer or something..
Thanks again for the help

A22 is the starter sense, on the US schematic is says A/T only.

The 'early' and 'late' designations can be confusing. 'Early' refers to the Denso ECUs that use a Volume Air Flow meter (VAF) 'Late' refers to the Mitsubishi ECUs that use a Mass Air Flow Meter (MAF). The US never had the Denso system so they have no concept of early and late.

[Gotenham]

grapedrank wrote:

Maybe check the voltages of the blue/black and white wires at the CMP plug? If you get 12V/5V respectively (with plug connected) then it would have to be a continuity issue on B3

Yea as above, at the CMP the BLU/BLK wire has 12v and the BLK has good earth but the WHT has only 0.1v..not 5v..
so i should be getting 5v FROM the sensor?

Also reset the ecm diagnostic and ran it again but this time i got code 41 instead of 42..i think 41 is ignition circuit? Anyway i double checked every cable end to end between the ignitor, ign coil, noise suppressor, dizzy and ecm and there all fine..could that be caused by the lack of 5v from the dizzy CMP sensor?

[Rhinoman]

41 is ignition fail safe signal which is the signal from the noise suppressor.

[Gotenham]

I had another noise suppressor from the sierra that is the same one on the vitara loom..i pluged that in and reset the diagnostic codes but still no start and still get code 41 ..i dont understand what it could be?

Btw the CMP WHT wire has all of a sudden decided to start putting out 4.9v which is good..

Any one have any ideas what to measure or check from here?whats the voltage supposed to be at the BRN/WHT wire between ignitor, noise suppressor and ignition coil at key 'on'?
Cheers guys..

[tazmanier]

I have the late model (3 wire AFM) but 7 wire dizzy, just back to basics for a minute. Have you checked it actually isn’t getting spark on cranking? Where are you located? Could be a good beer drinking exercise if you’re close by

Quote:

I've got the same engine as you and it is going into my coily sometime in the next few weeks, what extractors are you planning to use? I haven't been able to find much info on which ones will fit

for Grapedrank I got this mob to make me a set

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUZUKI-VITAR ... 3f19a39c26

put them in and they touched on the engine mount (G16b into sierra) could have ground substantial amount of engine mount (infact its the bracket between the mount and the car) away without an impact on function but took them back and he modified the jig used for making the headers for me, said they will still fit on standard vitara but now could be used on sierra with G16B conversion. took them away and they fitted fine. there was only about 2mm clearance between the headers and mount however, so not wanting to bother him again I ground 3mm from the mount (absolutely no impact on function) and now threes heaps of room between them.

[Gotenham]

In perth WA unfortunatly..would have to be one hell of a good beer ...yea theres no spark at all..im prty sure shes getting fuel as the spark plugs where wet (with fuel) when i took them out, plus i can hear the fuel pump prime and all the injectors have 12v and good GND..
So im stumped...at least its narrowed down to the ignition section, but what to test next?

Yea iv got the same extractors as taz..have a look at my build thread (posted the link above somewhere), theres some pics of how much of the engine mount i had to cut away for them to fit..

[Gotenham]

SHE STARTS

I was re looking over the wiring and realised that the coil plug looks very similar both up and down (usualy the tab on the plug goes to the top when your counting pins) but the coil plug has no tab(held on with a wire clip) so every time i had been looking at it i had thought the pins where in the correct spot..as a last ditch attempt to solve the starting problem i switched the wires around and she started first time


BLOODY LOUD without the full exhaust on it tho..Got that booked in for next week

Cheers for everyones help