[BlueSuzy]

2stroker wrote:

I just looked it up, the Bundera and Hilux are very close:

Bundera track - 1425mmm front and 1420mm rear

Hilux leaf sprung track - 1420mm front and 1400mm rear

I wonder how accurate those measurements are..

by them mine should be 1420 f&r



Just saying, Its done by manufacturers so it cant be that bad.

Bit of extra clearance in turning around rocks also. Rear narrower in theory will follow better

Go tell me how many fwd vehicles are wider in the front

[2stroker]

The measurements are from the Toyota manuals so they should be reasonably accurate

I agree that manufactures do it but maybe not to such an extent only 20mm difference on the hilux, they are talking about is 90mm on a much shorter vehicle

If these suzuki's that have been mentioned were so much more capable with the NT diff in the rear I wonder why you are not all running them, it would save you so much time, effort and money. We will have to have an acronym for it of course, see if you can spot it in this group of common acronyms:

a. RUF
b. WT/NT
c. NTDUR
d. SPOA
e. FWH

If you picked c. NTDUR you are right (narrow track diff up rear).

Fwd's are obviously a completely different kettle of fish, they could get away with no rear track, one wheel in the middle at the back, the rear wheels are only there to stop the back dragging on the ground.

[Gwagensteve]

I guess there's a few reasons why we're not all running them.
More outright stability WT/WT

More articualtion (and tyre clearance) WT/WT

WT axles tend to come in pairs

Nobody had thought of it yet

NT is unhektik.

The idea that going too wide on the inside edges reduces capability is something that a few guys have floated for a few years, but for us it took AJSR to put the idea into action of NT rear. Some of us have just achieved the same thing with uber-wide tyres and deep rim backspacing.

Bill Larman (Agrover on Pirate) used to do something similar with a Land Rover many years ago - he ran a Range Rover width front axle and a Series III width rear axle with dual rear wheels. The outsides were Silverstone MT-117's (36") and the insides were 7.50 16's (32") The inside of the duals never touched the ground until they ran on the crown of the ruts. He used to have two 6.50X16's he could bolt to the outside of the front wheels to go super wide with small outer tyres on the front. This was circa 1999 I saw him running that setup.

He subsequently built his own portals, but his comment to me was that the car was more capable with the duals on the back than with portals.



This was the car, but it's on portals in that photo.

Steve.

[GRPABT1]

Would the ideal stability/rut riding compromise be ajsr's setup but with say 10" wide rear rims and 13.5" tyres but 10.5" tyres in the front for ease of fitment on 7" rims that clear the springs on full lock?

I honestly cannot see a benefit here in north QLD as we do not get the stupidly deep ruts of down south and diff clearance of a Zook is usually better than most trucks around anyway. But I do think it is a clever solution to problem.

[sogone]

How much wider is a WT rear to a NT rear WMS to WMS?

[Fatzook]

70mm AFAIK

[Gwagensteve]

In case you think it's all much ado about nothing, for us, when conditions are slippery we get zero line choice, even if there is an alternative line available under dryer conditions. We're also driving tracks where big cars are winching on 37's.

Obviously there's no line choice on a track like this:



But if you watch the AT12 Day 1 video again, you'll see some attempts on a section of track where only AJ was successful, despite running the equal smallest, narrowest tyres of the group. We were all being spanked SO hard by this obstacle with a back wheel falling into a deep hole that it's impossible to discount that it was the narrow track rear end that made the difference.

http://vimeo.com/39268830

AJ's 1st and successful attempt is at the 1 minute mark.

Steve.

[2stroker]

sogone wrote:

How much wider is a WT rear to a NT rear WMS to WMS?

Lots of measurements out there but by the manuals this is what is supposed to be

NT= 1210mm front and 1220mm rear

WT = 1300mm front and 1310mm rear

So that is 90mm, I think where the confusion comes in is that you will often see written that the WT was 100mm wider than a NT but I think they were talking about body width with the WT flaires

[anDy86]

Difference will technically be 80mm being a 1220 rear.

I think this would be worth a go as there will be way less things to change when converting from 1ltr NT to 1.3ltr NT e.g. diff flange, hard lines brakes, diff perches etc.

[Gwagensteve]

1310-1220=90?

I'm going to suggest that if someone really needs the capability gain provided by staying NT rear, the fact it's less work isn't really a factor as odds are they're building shock mounts, RUFing the front end, likely moving rear hangers to get the back end to work etc etc regardless. Moving two spring perches is hardly a show stopper.

Steve.

[KEENSY85]

sounds a bit dodge but i can see the point behind the nt/wt set up and 90mm or so is a fair bit of diffrence but is it big enough to realy help that much i mean in the mud i think it would help a little but unless it was like 100mm ether side would it realy be that affective to get the front punkin out of the mud or is there other contibuting factors,pardon the shit gramer but and spelling but im keen to hear others replies on this post its very intersting as Gwagensteve said u wouldnt go wt apart from the stabilty it gives but some argue that as well and wouldnt the diffrent diff widths determine some of the length of life from ur running gear like gearing ect im pretty shure some people are convinced that running dif width tyres will flog ur t-case geering out and bla,bla,bla , but i havnt a clue id love to know ether way though

[Fatzook]

Personally I'd rather have matching Diff WMS>WMS and run different offset rear wheels than have a 90mm track width difference gained from using wildly mismatched diffs.

[KEENSY85]

that would meen u could swap and change to certain cond

[gvzookdriver]

Another reason for people going WT is cromos isn't it ?

[Fatzook]

gvzookdriver wrote:

Another reason for people going WT is cromos isn't it ?

For the front....Yes.

Rear..... Not really.