[atari4x4]

2stroker wrote:

Nice pic Atari4x4 but those shockies are not the commodore shockies that everyone is recommending, the ones in the pics have exposed shafts and on top of that the vehicle in the pic has RUF and extended shackles.

i'd say Dan along with many others including myself with the commy shocks in the rear of my vit have cut the dust tube off the shock.

[2stroker]

Possibly so, but the car in the pic has RUF and extended shackles so is not indicative of the poor result when fitted to a sierra with standard springs and shackles.

[atari4x4]

who mentioned standard springs.... the OP even states that he's running 2" lifted springs in the first post.

[2stroker]

You just don't understand, I thought with the amount of time you have been around this site you would.

In the end Atari4x4 I have offered information and tech, you have offered no information and no tech, I have tried to explain this so that people can understand but you seem intent on cutting that down so I will offer no further advice on the subject.

[atari4x4]

he's running standard shocks on lifted springs so anything is going to be an improvement, i believe you when you say the bumpstopped commy/hiace isn't the perfect set up but it has to be an improvement over what his current set up & is cheap & readily available & IMO ride nicer than alot of aftermarket shocks supplied with sierra lift kits.

my vitara is bumpstopped, but not due to shock length but coil bind.

[SierraDan]

I said it a couple of times too.. Haha

[ZookFan]

2stroker wrote:

Nice pic Atari4x4 but those shockies are not the commodore shockies that everyone is recommending, the ones in the pics have exposed shafts and on top of that the vehicle in the pic has RUF and extended shackles.

SierraDan that is exactly right, I am not saying there is not a place for these shockies, I am saying you need modifications to make them viable. A Sierra with standard springs and tyres gains no benifit from them they actually give less travel.

To give you an idea of what I mean a standard front shock off a WT sierrra is about 260mm compressed and 420mm extended, the commodore shock is about 360mm compressed and 570mm extended, if you look at the extended length then theoretically the diff can flex downward 150mm further with the commodore shock.

However if you disconnect the standard shock at the bottom and flex the standrad spring with standard shackle downwards it will only flex down about 30mm - 40mm further before the spring becomes the limiting factor. So from the 150mm that you have gained you can only use 30mm - 40mm of it before the spring has exhausted its flex.

But now because at 360mm the compressed length is 50mm too long (there is 310mm between bottom and top shock mount when diff is on bump stop) you must add a bump stop extension of 50mm to stop the commodore shock from bottoming out.

So here we are, you have gained 30mm - 40mm down travel and lost 50mm uptravel.

Obviously longer springs as in RUF and extended shackles will benifit from the commodore length shock because you can gain a lot more down flex than you loose from the 50mm bump stop extension but on standard springs and shackles there is no benifit.

In fact it isn't even a status quo because although you have similar total flex you have moved the centre point of the travel so in the bush over uneven ground because the wheel can only move up a little before you are on a bumpstop the vehicle will tilt move.

And that is why Zookfan is as happy as a kid in a lolly shop because we did exactly that experiment on his car with its commodore shockies and OME springs. by removing them and fitting a shock that is 300mm when compressed and taking out his 50mm bump stop he has gained a full 50mm wheel travel and has a more stable vehicle offroad because the wheel can be pushed 50mm further up before the body starts to tilt.

Hope that all makes sense guys.

Bingo! The ride is better too..as its not hitting the bump stops on every friggen bump!

I will bring my Hiace shocks over for you to measure Kas

[Zook_Fan]

JrZook wrote:

2stroker wrote:

With a better choice of shock you will still have the same down travel but have no need for bump stop spacers that limit your up travel.

If you are running bump stop spacers to stop big tyres hitting guards that is a different story, but is still a compromise.

This!

Take Zook_Fans vehicle as an example. Small tires that will easily clear the guards under full compression but with the shocks (which I believe are commo/hiace) he needed BS spacers to stop them topping out. Net overall loss of potential wheel travel.

I believe Boge do shocks that are reasonably priced for the sierra and I believe they are ~300mm compressed for the front and something similar to suit the rear. Seem to be softly valved also.

Not sure if you meant me or the other guy but I had commodore and hiace shocks with 235's and but have never had BS spacers. I measured the distance on fully compressed and went for a shock that could fit that gap, minus a little bit for bumpstop compression. They were a commodore shock but I couldn't tell you what model, front or rear or even wagon, ute or sedan. There are online catalogues of the gabriel shock range, people that are blindly following the pack and getting the longer shocks will still be happy as it is a vast improvement over the stock ones that are almost on full extension with a 2" suspension lift.

[atari4x4]

^^^^ exactly, there are numerous shocks in the commodore range.

[SierraDan]

Sedan ones are huuuuuuuuuuuuge

[Chop]

Yep Sedan ones are ideal for the bigger 3" plus lifted vitara's, and wagon ones like VT are more suited for the fronts of sierra's.

I now have Camira shocks in the rear of my GV! Oh the horror

[Jackson]

2stroker wrote:

To give you an idea of what I mean a standard front shock off a WT sierrra is about 260mm compressed and 420mm extended, the commodore shock is about 360mm compressed and 570mm extended, if you look at the extended length then theoretically the diff can flex downward 150mm further with the commodore shock.

I'm not sure which commodore shock you used but when I searched everyone seemed to be recommending the gabriel shock part number 81340 which I think is the one used in the rear of most wagons? Which is 313mm compressed and 525mm extended. http://gabriel.com/our-products/car-light-truck-van/pv-detailed-specs/?partnum=81340


That is with WT diffs and OME springs, standard shocks.


That is with commodore shocks and standard shocks in the rear which were then maxed out and I couldn't go any further.

I also marked the shock at where fully compressed is and 25mm bumpstop spacers seem to be enough so I don't know why you had 50mm extensions.

2stroker wrote:

And that is why Zookfan is as happy as a kid in a lolly shop because we did exactly that experiment on his car with its commodore shockies and OME springs. by removing them and fitting a shock that is 300mm when compressed and taking out his 50mm bump stop he has gained a full 50mm wheel travel and has a more stable vehicle offroad because the wheel can be pushed 50mm further up before the body starts to tilt.

If you don't mind me asking did it cost much? And how long is the shock fully extended?

Even if you went to super cheap when the shocks aren't on sale you could walk out with 2 front shocks for 100 bucks. Go to the nut and bolt shop get 4 longer bolts for 2 bucks. Go the the steel shop and get a bit of RHS for I don't know because the bloke gave me a piece. If you grab some hiace ones for the back your up for a couple of hundred bucks.

The tilt thing seems kind of exaggerated. It would only be like 4 or 5 degrees with 50mm bumpstop spacers. You could just get a fat mate to sit on the side up the hill.

[KEENSY85]

And that is why Zookfan is as happy as a kid in a lolly shop because we did exactly that experiment on his car with its commodore shockies and OME springs. by removing them and fitting a shock that is 300mm when compressed and taking out his 50mm bump stop he has gained a full 50mm wheel travel and has a more stable vehicle offroad because the wheel can be pushed 50mm further up before the body starts to tilt.

Hope that all makes sense guys.[/quote]


iv been researching this like mad because i would like to avoid bump stop spacing as much as possible for my current build im interested in buying new shock towers off trail tough ford 1s for the front they are eye to eye so hopefully they will be a little smoother but the problem will be judging the correct length shock i was thinking jack her up to the wheels off the ground and measure, im realy not shure how im going to work it out but i cant wait till i make it to that part of my build

[monley]

I like commy shocks. Better compressed length than the one's supplied in a blue pac lift and a better open length. They also ride nicer. I think they are a great optoin for the price and availability.

That is all.

Bye.

[atari4x4]

whatz da part numberz onda shockies yous got, does they give maximum hektics?

[monley]

Same as the ones Jackson has.. yes they give lots of heckitness

[JrZook]

What are the compressed and extended lengths monley?

[monley]

JrZook wrote:

What are the compressed and extended lengths monley?

Not sure. Will measure them when i swap the leaves over to something a bit shorter but i was under the car today and by the looks of thing's the diff has been hitting the bump stop with out spacers and these shocks

[sideways]

monley wrote:

I like commy shocks. Better compressed length than the one's supplied in a blue pac lift and a better open length. They also ride nicer. I think they are a great optoin for the price and availability.

That is all.

Bye.

Jesus fawk, those blue pac shockies have a big bore!! They must ride like shit!

[2stroker]

Yeah sideways thats what I thought, the blupacs that Zookfan has which were supposedly long travel to suit Sierra with 2" springs are no where near that big in the bore and are blue in colour (see the pics on EBAY, spoa toyota hilux are yellow) when we compares compressed length beside his commodore shockies it came up opposite to what monley has in his pic.

Monley can you post the part numbers for each of those in the pic please.

[monley]

81340, same as what jackson has. No idea what the blue Pac ones are.

[sideways]

2stroker wrote:

Yeah sideways thats what I thought, the blupacs that Zookfan has which were supposedly long travel to suit Sierra with 2" springs are no where near that big in the bore and are blue in colour (see the pics on EBAY, spoa toyota hilux are yellow) when we compares compressed length beside his commodore shockies it came up opposite to what monley has in his pic.

Monley can you post the part numbers for each of those in the pic please.

Ages ago, I asked Blue Pac what the difference is between their blue and yellow shocks and they said they're the same aside from the colour, obviously that would be BS. Just putting it out there for anyone thinking of asking.

WHYYYY?!??!!! Do virtually all readily available aftermarket shocky manufacturers insist on making them stiff as heck.

[sideways]

If anyone cares.

The rear shockies from an ST141 Toyota Corona are 310mm closed and 510mm extended. They have the correct pin/eye combo to bolt into the front of a Sierra. The ones I measured were Monroe gas brand.

[2stroker]

monley wrote:

81340, same as what jackson has. No idea what the blue Pac ones are.

Can't you just read the number off the yellow ones

[monley]

2stroker wrote:

monley wrote:

81340, same as what jackson has. No idea what the blue Pac ones are.

Can't you just read the number off the yellow ones

Yeh I would, if I wasn't 30mins away from all my Suzuki parts

Here's a pic if the diff hitting the bump stop on stock mounts.



It only just hits the b/s cus of ruf, but still hits.

[atari4x4]

sounds like ZookFan, went to supercheap & bought the longest commy shocks he could find.

[2stroker]

Maybe so atari4x4, I will see if he cann tell us the part number, it may not be the 81340's that Monely has. I will post some pics of how his and the last few I have seen would never reach the bump stop like that, Fatzook fitted them and had to add the bump stop extension to stop them bottoming out, according to the Gabriel spec sheet there are only two different lengths in the commodore wagon rears I will check to see which are which.

[monley]

100% sure mine are 81340's. I hand pick them from the shelf my self (cus supercheap are useless ) I will have a measure up this weekend if i get time.

[sideways]

It's probably worth noting that Monley has dodgy RUF which has moved his diff forward and most likely allows him to fit longer shocks than someone with the diff in the stock position would.

[monley]

Yeh my dodgy RUF is really helping me fit a longer shock and not need B/S spacer