[tanshi]

OK so i have had a fair bit of a google around and i know a few people who are thinking about this mod at the moment so for those guys who have done it:
we are talking about narrowing vit housings, and WT housiings to make them centred diffs etc.
What are your Jigs like?
A basic run down on the process you went through to do it?
Any one got any good links to people who have done it before etc.

[tanshi]

im thinking some thing similar to this.
https://chassisengineering.com/shopDeta ... uctId=1838

but using an old diff centre, pulling the spider gears out
finding a rod that fits snugly in through the carrier and making up some alloy or steel pucks for the outer ends that sit in the bearing housings and sit snug over the rod

thus keeping the housing straight with the rod in all directions.

[tonyevans]

That is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of.

[BlueSuzy]

Joeblow Jig



With the next diffs i make i will do something like this but made 10x stronger with more braces to adjust for different mounts welded on etc.. Keeps everything in line. That jig will still bow depending on welding

The main thing is, Take your time welding them! I have bent braced lux diffs with weld and no jig. So easy to get carried away. I got them striaghtened @ 250 each..

[joeblow]

BlueSuzy wrote:

Joeblow Jig



With the next diffs i make i will do something like this but made 10x stronger with more braces to adjust for different mounts welded on etc.. Keeps everything in line. That jig will still bow depending on welding

The main thing is, Take your time welding them! I have bent braced lux diffs with weld and no jig. So easy to get carried away. I got them striaghtened @ 250 each..

Old jig long ago turned into scrap.


New jig.

[tanshi]

for just narrowing an alreay built diff would it need to be that complicated in the Jig department?

[BlueSuzy]

Even that jig, You will need a jig to make the jig

That 30mm rhs would bend on every weld of those plates


Just narrowing would be easy i think, Cut the flange off, clean it up so when rewelded it will go back on square, Cut the tube to size and make sure end is square, Weld the flange on. Some flanges i have seen look like they locate in the axle tube in abit as they are cast/forged. Abit like the front knuckle balls. That will make things easier.

I have never shortened/lengthened a diff.

[3cyl]

Wow, new jig looks the stuff but the housing on it is much flasher than I had in mind . My problem is I don't know where to start, can't make a jig off a Stockman housing because I need to go full floater and disc on the rear. Guess I'll start with the front, it will be much like I have already but with a 1.3 size centre.

[want33s]

Tanshi wrote:

but using an old diff centre, pulling the spider gears out
finding a rod that fits snugly in through the carrier and making up some alloy or steel pucks for the outer ends that sit in the bearing housings and sit snug over the rod

thus keeping the housing straight with the rod in all directions.

Yep... just like that.


Bear in mind that even if you use a jig for assembly and welding you will probably still need to press the housing straight.

[tanshi]

anything special needed to press them? i.e special press?

or just rig up something to make a shop press work?

[tanshi]

also any ways of limiting the warping?

maybe cool damp rags not too far away from where your welding? or would this make it worse?

[tanshi]

Found this run down.
http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/deucerearend.html

not for a suzuki, but beyond the jig not being commonly available, some awesome info in there!!!

[SierraDan]

My mate made a 4link upper truss on his patrol diff and a fair bit of heat was being pumped in.
He is a welder by trade and used damp rags while welding.

If that helps at all.

[got_bar_work]

My mate that makes custom drag car diffs likes to weld a bit then leave it go do some thing else
Come back hour later do a bit more
Might take a few days but they come out pretty straight even though he has put alot or bracing end caps etc

[joeblow]

BlueSuzy wrote:

Even that jig, You will need a jig to make the jig

That 30mm rhs would bend on every weld of those plates

Thats funny, I don't remember you standing over my shoulder watching the process of making that jig.

Any knucklehead could turn that into a banana. If you know how to weld, can predict how something will move when welded and take your time you would be amazed at what can be done. And that jig has better tolerances than a factory diff.

Oh, and it was placed in my mill and run over the journals with a dial indicator after welding.

Alot of talk here is based on cutting and butt welding, not something you realy want to do on a diff. The reason I start from scratch with my housings now is so there are no butt welds. Tubes etc are machined fit for both centre housing and bearing journals. You do not want the welds taking the full load.

[ball]

joeblow wrote:

Thats funny, I don't remember you standing over my shoulder watching the process of making that jig.

Any knucklehead could turn that into a banana. If you know how to weld, can predict how something will move when welded and take your time you would be amazed at what can be done. And that jig has better tolerances than a factory diff.

Oh, and it was placed in my mill and run over the journals with a dial indicator after welding.

Alot of talk here is based on cutting and butt welding, not something you realy want to do on a diff. The reason I start from scratch with my housings now is so there are no butt welds. Tubes etc are machined fit for both centre housing and bearing journals. You do not want the welds taking the full load.

If you have to ask how to do a job like this then chances are you won't be able to do it properly.

As Joe says above, you need to know how things are going to move when heated and welded.

[monley]

ball wrote:

joeblow wrote:

Thats funny, I don't remember you standing over my shoulder watching the process of making that jig.

Any knucklehead could turn that into a banana. If you know how to weld, can predict how something will move when welded and take your time you would be amazed at what can be done. And that jig has better tolerances than a factory diff.

Oh, and it was placed in my mill and run over the journals with a dial indicator after welding.

Alot of talk here is based on cutting and butt welding, not something you realy want to do on a diff. The reason I start from scratch with my housings now is so there are no butt welds. Tubes etc are machined fit for both centre housing and bearing journals. You do not want the welds taking the full load.

If you have to ask how to do a job like this then chances are you won't be able to do it properly.

As Joe says above, you need to know how things are going to move when heated and welded.

Wish the welders at work would think like that Straightening beams with 30mm+ flanges isn't fun

[oozuk]

tanshi wrote:

im thinking some thing similar to this.
https://chassisengineering.com/shopDeta ... uctId=1838

but using an old diff centre, pulling the spider gears out
finding a rod that fits snugly in through the carrier and making up some alloy or steel pucks for the outer ends that sit in the bearing housings and sit snug over the rod

thus keeping the housing straight with the rod in all directions.

That's a good link Darren,

Subscribed to this thread and watching closely for ideas

[303zuke]

If a mod is reading this, can we pull across some of the most recent posts from the Chinasoong Thread, which weren't really relevant to the locker topic anyhow.

[tanshi]

ball wrote:

If you have to ask how to do a job like this then chances are you won't be able to do it properly.

While i understand your comment i dont understand how asking the question to gain a better understanding is a bad thing. I may not attempt this my self, but how do we learn if we dont ask the questions.

As far as butt welding goes or not, is it a better idea to machine up some sleeves to sit tight inside the join and weld to them aswell?

[tanshi]

like this
http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/2001/hpd60front/

[tanshi]

oozuk wrote:

tanshi wrote:

im thinking some thing similar to this.
https://chassisengineering.com/shopDeta ... uctId=1838

but using an old diff centre, pulling the spider gears out
finding a rod that fits snugly in through the carrier and making up some alloy or steel pucks for the outer ends that sit in the bearing housings and sit snug over the rod

thus keeping the housing straight with the rod in all directions.

That's a good link Darren,

Subscribed to this thread and watching closely for ideas

Im thinking i might start measuring up my spare vit rear for bits i can use for a jig over the weekend. If it turns out crap it gets thrown away, if it works then bonus.

[ball]

tanshi wrote:

but how do we learn if we dont ask the questions.

As far as butt welding goes or not, is it a better idea to machine up some sleeves to sit tight inside the join and weld to them aswell?

Practise and experience

A fabricator generally has to go through a 4 year apprenticeship to develop the skills and experience to do this sort of stuff. Even then they would never stop learning.

Sleeves would be better than a plain but weld, (but how long and what wall thickness do you make the sleeves )

[tanshi]

exactly, and practice and experience is gained by trial, error and asking questions.

Could you maybe offer your experience up and give some advice on what sort of sleeves to use? and other hints and tips?
my point is that people without practice and experience are going to try this with or without your advice. so maybe you could help us along and impart some knowledge.

[alien]

tanshi wrote:

give some advice on what sort of sleeves to use?

when my chassis was being engineered, the engineer insisted all fish plating, gusseting etc was done in the same material thickness that it was being welded to. I'm assuming that was to ensure a better weld rather than anything else though.

[tonyevans]

tanshi wrote:

exactly, and practice and experience is gained by trial, error and asking questions.

Could you maybe offer your experience up and give some advice on what sort of sleeves to use? and other hints and tips?
my point is that people without practice and experience are going to try this with or without your advice. so maybe you could help us along and impart some knowledge.

Go for it Tanshi - You know what they say - You never,never know if you never, never go. The first person to do it was not an expert

[ball]

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy for the hell of it. A diff is a pretty important part on a car that needs to be right, much like brakes.

I see the big reason we have so many rules and regs these days with modifying cars, is that somewhere along the lines, accidents have been caused by poor ideas, skills, materials etc and recommendations have come out to tighten up the regulations.

Rather than sleeving and butt welding tubes together, look at cutting to length and welding new ends on instead.

The bearing housings for common diffs like 9" and borg warners are reasonably cheap but I don't know about suzuki ones.

For the fronts, the big ball on the end will more than likely have a shoulder already pressed into the tube. If you carefully cut out the welds you should be able to re use the end.

This would go a long way to satisfying any engineering requirements. If you duplicate what was originally there, it looks better on paper. If you put a join in then it is an additional failure point.

All the welding would need to be done as per the Australian Standard too.

[tanshi]

excellent info!

i would guess that the rear bearing housings could be cut off carefully, remaining tube bit removed and pressed on to the shortened tube similar to your description of the front.

[tanshi]

oh and i do see the point in you being reluctant to encourage back yard diff modding.

[ball]

tanshi wrote:

excellent info!

i would guess that the rear bearing housings could be cut off carefully, remaining tube bit removed and pressed on to the shortened tube similar to your description of the front.

yep