[bigdogdazza]

bigdogdazza wrote:

Dr_snapid, love your work bud teaching the youngins to drive! I am all for it and whilst I have had a few comments on giving my son this car once he is of legal age to drive I also have been teaching him to drive since 9yrs old, now 15 goin 16 and having raced karts for a couple years I feel honestly he is more capable than 50% of experienced drivers we have on the roads today. He has raced wheel to wheel at speeds of over 100kph on slicks in pouring rain, experienced 2-3 g,s whilst cornering and honed his reflexes and reaction time to make split second decisions and react a hell of a lot better than your average plod! We wheel a patrol, 80 series, jimny, pajero, and vitara every weekend and he is an accomplished driver of all, both man and auto alike, he is my navigator and also is experienced in all types of recoveries. Teach them young on private property and when they are legal to drive on the road at least you only have to worry about other idiots, not them! I will say it again ... Love your work!

As for the jimny competing with the patrol, it's no so much a completion thing more of I just want to be able to drive the same section he does with ease without breaking out the strap or winch...gets a little tedious at times!

[zukenutter]

3cyl wrote:

You must have poured a fortune into the Jimny already, but none of the mods will help you slay the 'troll as well as the air lockers you can't afford. The excess weight also won't help. Also you won't stay with the 'troll unless you ease up on the height a bit.
I've really only wheeled with 1 Jimny, that was Bugsta, his one goes okay but not without gearing and not after it breaks a CV or the clutch catches fire (inevitable when he didn't have gears in). His has 7.50/16s on it and that was plenty of tyre, can't remember how he cleared them but I think he had bodylift and suspension lift, as well as an angle grinder.
So my vote is front axle and CV upgrade, airlockers, gears, suspension and moderate size tyres. Barwork too.

What about me at Ripley in the black Jimny.





You can't judge Jimny durability on Bugsta... Or any other Jimny owner who's Offroad skills centre on rpm.

[3cyl]

Hey Zooknutter, well that's a blast from the past, so long ago I forgot. Comment still applies about excessive ride height. Also the bit about the driver being the most important part. Yours went well that day because it was driven well.

[bigdogdazza]

I agree totally as we have learnt that lesson well with Motorsports, money buys great equipment but not talent, put a mediocre driver in the best money can buy and will always be mediocre but put a winning driver in mediocre equipment and they will still win. Driver skill can't be bought, breakages occur mainly due to lack of patients or wrong approach to obstacle, I have seen my Neighbour drive an old ford laser through terrain that a lesser 4wd and driver combo would not get through unaided! Poor laser did get a hard time but proved to me it could be done!

[zukenutter]

3cyl wrote:

Hey Zooknutter, well that's a blast from the past, so long ago I forgot. Comment still applies about excessive ride height. Also the bit about the driver being the most important part. Yours went well that day because it was driven well.

Totally. Had a couple of moments where a locker would have been handy but managed White Hill. I think that when I punched the rear window, with the line I took any zuke would have contacted the bank just sadly mine has a glass window. I remember my old Sierra had lots of scuffs in the same area of the soft top, but yes too much height is detrimental but heavy bar work up high would compound the negatives.

Haven't had the balls to take silver Jim to Ripley

[Dr_Snapid]

speedyblue wrote:

I was lead to believe that you are less likely to break axle's and CV's with a locker due to reduced shock loading.

The most likely time you would break an axle is while you are giving it the berries going up a rutted hill. Without a locker when you lift a wheel, the airborn wheel is spinning twice the speed as the other wheel is stationary (assuming you are have diagonal wheels airborn, ground speed = 0). When that wheel comes back down, the shock associated with the fast spinning wheel hitting the not very fast moving ground creates a huge spike in the strain placed on the axle and CV's, especially if you still have your boot into it. Having lockers installed would mean that:
1. The airborn wheel would be travelling the same speed as the grounded wheel.
2. With drive still being generated by the grounded wheel, you should still ahve some ground speed.
So when the airborn wheel comes back down, the wheel speed will closer match the ground speed, so much less shock loading.

I agree with the theory but ask anyone, in practice it seems most people find their first CV breakage comes soon after their first locker.... just my observation. I think most people either dont understand the way all torque can go to one axle, dont have enough mechanical sympathy, or dont take enough care in the 'heat of the moment'.

One of my favourite sayings: In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

[Chop]

Dr_Snapid wrote:

speedyblue wrote:

I was lead to believe that you are less likely to break axle's and CV's with a locker due to reduced shock loading.

The most likely time you would break an axle is while you are giving it the berries going up a rutted hill. Without a locker when you lift a wheel, the airborn wheel is spinning twice the speed as the other wheel is stationary (assuming you are have diagonal wheels airborn, ground speed = 0). When that wheel comes back down, the shock associated with the fast spinning wheel hitting the not very fast moving ground creates a huge spike in the strain placed on the axle and CV's, especially if you still have your boot into it. Having lockers installed would mean that:
1. The airborn wheel would be travelling the same speed as the grounded wheel.
2. With drive still being generated by the grounded wheel, you should still ahve some ground speed.
So when the airborn wheel comes back down, the wheel speed will closer match the ground speed, so much less shock loading.

I agree with the theory but ask anyone, in practice it seems most people find their first CV breakage comes soon after their first locker.... just my observation. I think most people either dont understand the way all torque can go to one axle, dont have enough mechanical sympathy, or dont take enough care in the 'heat of the moment'.

One of my favourite sayings: In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Ah yes, but alot of people try to drive what they would'nt before once lockers are fitted and that where the cv's can go.
You can drive stuff easier than before locked, and where you may have broken a cv beforehand its a doddle. But its that next level where your pushing it with lockers that get cv's breaking again.

[bigdogdazza]

I would think the old right foot must have a hell of a lot to do with breakages, I was referred to look at Monleys build thread and quoted he has broken everything at least once and bent diff housings etc.... Surely just a big set of tyres won't do that much carnage unless car is pushed beyond its limits..often?

[monley]

bigdogdazza wrote:

I would think the old right foot must have a hell of a lot to do with breakages, I was referred to look at Monleys build thread and quoted he has broken everything at least once and bent diff housings etc.... Surely just a big set of tyres won't do that much carnage unless car is pushed beyond its limits..often?

My jimny got driven hard, but it was the big tyres coupled with reduction gears, and lockers that caused the most damage....my car was often pushed beyond it's limit's which resulted in a hard flop unfortunately . I will build another jimny one day, it just won't have much jimny drive train in it ...or standard suspension.

[3cyl]

Terrain is a big factor, rock on big hills breaks a lot more just big enough bits than mud, what terrain are you aiming this thing at?

[bigdogdazza]

Hmmm that's the hard part.... Each weekend it varies between seriously rutted bogholes to steep rocky crap with step ups etc, will be venturing into Stockton dunes with it soon then Fraser island and landcruiser park etc, so some very different terrain which made tyre choice very difficult but I would say apart from the odd sand venture maybe 80-85% mud and rock. I enjoy the mud and ruts the most but it is extremely unforgiving on the jimny with electrics and alt bearings etc all taking a beating!

[atari4x4]

modding a jimny for serious off road work is a bit like

[joeblow]

atari4x4 wrote:

modding a jimny for serious off road work is a bit like

Yes, but still a hell of a lot easier than doing a Vitara!

If axles are the main worry than......woopee.

Put some suspension in it......put some 30 inch tyres on it.......get some lockers for it and go wheelin. You will still find it shits on most bigger vehicles and leaves a similarly modded Sierra in its wake too.

[bigdogdazza]

atari4x4 wrote:

modding a jimny for serious off road work is a bit like

Maybe it's not as easy as buying off the shelf kits for a patrol etc and away you go but it is enjoying, cheap, easy to work on and best of all the Adrenilan gets pumping when the angles are big! Lol my brother gets nervous on some angles in his LWB pootrol, he would sh@t in a swb zook on same terrain!! The Jimny has all the basics for a great 4by just a matter of finding what works well and knowing limits of the vehicle I guess.
And I agree if it blows cv,s who really cares? For $200 you can get a brand new pair on fleabay! When I raced karts I would go through 3 sets slicks a week between myself and son with practice and racing and @$250 a set.... You work out what's cheaper?

[atari4x4]

joeblow wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

modding a jimny for serious off road work is a bit like

Yes, but still a hell of a lot easier than doing a Vitara!

If axles are the main worry than......woopee.

Put some suspension in it......put some 30 inch tyres on it.......get some lockers for it and go wheelin. You will still find it shits on most bigger vehicles and leaves a similarly modded Sierra in its wake too.

as i said, serious off road work.

my vit would quite regularly put full size 4wd's to shame & that's running a pretty standard sort of set up for a vitara + air lockers on 31's.

[joeblow]

atari4x4 wrote:

as i said, serious off road work.

How do you define serious?

You know I tend to agree with you on most things atari.

If you can go furthet than a Pootrol or similar than I call that serious enough.

My old Jimny....



I hated this thing in the end....NOT because of it's off road ability....but it's on road reliability.

It shagged a crank.
It shagged a head.
It shagged a valve.
(not at the same time!)
It shagged a clutch early.
It shagged a geabox.
It shagged rear wheel bearings often.
The last straw was shaggin a rear diff early like many other Jimny's....but not Sierras.

Off road a Sierra that was setup the same would not keep up with it.

Once you go a certian size tyre on a Vit you must look at modification options to retain reliability.
The same applies for a Jimny and a Sierra.

[bigdogdazza]

Atari please tell me the path to choose with my swb 96 vitara, it is auto, has a 3" JB lift kit and looking at tyres next... Lockers will come but not before the Jimny. Must have road manners as my stepson is the regular driver of this one but also has to cut it with the offroad work on weekends.

[atari4x4]

lifted, locked on 31's, is a reliable combo with some decent driver skill... being a 1.6 you don't have any real options on fixing high range so it's going to be doughy on & off road.


gee Joe, you must be really ruff on the gear to do that sort of damage.

you're right about keeping up/out driving patrols etc as being serious, i just think the OP is going to be asking to much from teh jimny... even the vitara's have a bigger front diff than what was used in the jimnys.

[monley]

Jimny diffs are just gay. Front one is made of actual cheese and the rear like's to eat wheel bearing's and R&P's for brekky

[joeblow]

atari4x4 wrote:

even the vitara's have a bigger front diff than what was used in the jimnys.

.....all the better to break the coke can housings!...........

Forgot to mention...

I didn't break any axles....or bend any control arms.

Rest of the vehicle was rooted.

[joeblow]

monley wrote:

Jimny diffs are just gay. Front one is made of actual cheese and the rear like's to eat wheel bearing's and R&P's for brekky

Out of curiosity, if you are having trouble with rear bearings and ring and pinions, has the rear diff been checked for straightness?

I only say this because all the diffs I have come across that do this are bent.

[bigdogdazza]

So what's the best way to overcome the dreaded jimny diff disease? Hilux diffs?

[atari4x4]

joeblow wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

even the vitara's have a bigger front diff than what was used in the jimnys.

.....all the better to break the coke can housings!...

and they're easily upgraded to steel, which is an off the shelf factory part.

what are the off the shelf options to upgrade the jimny front diff? not everyone can hand fab a complete custom housings to take a vit front/sierra centre.

enough about vitara's, this thread is about building the ultimate road rego'd jimny...



my choice would be air locked F&R, 30x9.5 KM2's, geared sierra case, guard cut + what ever lift required to make it work with no body lift? (maybe the jimnybits kit that everyone seems to be using)

[monley]

joeblow wrote:

monley wrote:

Jimny diffs are just gay. Front one is made of actual cheese and the rear like's to eat wheel bearing's and R&P's for brekky

Out of curiosity, if you are having trouble with rear bearings and ring and pinions, has the rear diff been checked for straightness?

I only say this because all the diffs I have come across that do this are bent.

Rear diff was straight and it had been braced, so i don't think that was the cause of the smashing the R&P and doing wheel bearings in.


If the car wasn't my DD at the time, i would of gone cut down vit rear, with a W/T front end and 3.9 R&P's.

[smiffkid]

U will break any kind of runnin gear if u drive it hard enough. In the right situations.
If u Drive it like its a twin locked suzuki u will
Get plenty of fun in my opinion.
Drive it like I drove mine and break stuff. Simple as that.

[bigdogdazza]

So basically correct me if I am wrong... A jimny lifted, locked, gears and 31,s WILL work IF you have a healthy respect and treat it for what it is... A Jimny...Not a tough truck!

[Red89]

bigdogdazza wrote:

So basically correct me if I am wrong... A jimny lifted, locked, gears and 31,s WILL work IF you have a healthy respect and treat it for what it is... A Jimny...Not a tough truck!

This was the very first reply to the thread, and there was several more like it.

tanshi wrote:

honestly, if you lock both ends of whhat you already have you will keep up in 99% of places.

the other 1% of places will be tracks where your not really long enough to go in a jimny any way.

I'm not sure where the confusion lies

[BertZook]

at the end of the day is drivers skills too like many others are telling you here.

to keep up with the patrool, 31's tyres would give you the same (ish) diff clearance than 35's on a patrool, so wherever he drives trough, you should be able to do it too without drag ur diff.... either rocks or ruts....... now the thing is that a 35" has more diameter than a 31"... so there'll be holes or rocks that he might just drive through and u wont just becose the diameter of the wheel

you have a SWB and he a LWB.... more liek a tiny wheel base and a huge wheelbase.. so his lines are way different than yours, so not really a way to compare both... but having lockers like him and same diff clearance u should be fine to drive the same


do wht you love in the car that u want... if u choose to built a jimny, do it!.... just be sure to pst some pics

[3cyl]

bigdogdazza wrote:

So basically correct me if I am wrong... A jimny lifted, locked, gears and 31,s WILL work IF you have a healthy respect and treat it for what it is... A Jimny...Not a tough truck!

I think you'll still need 26 spline axles and cromo cvs. If you drive it to it's true potential you'll keep up, and let's face it, that's enough to get his attention.

[Highway-Star]

3cyl wrote:

I think you'll still need 26 spline axles and cromo cvs. If you drive it to it's true potential you'll keep up, and let's face it, that's enough to get his attention.

OH! soo, thats what he wants from his mate in the troll.....
Explains why Jimny's are a bit of a Shiela's car...