[abclarke]

Hey guys just playing around doing a "mini" RUF on the hard top using some 2" lifted rears and some TSOR extended shackles.

Just chucking em all together for a test fit without drilling the rear hole back and this is what the shackle angle is like and how the car sits at the moment.






Doing a bit of searching and alot of guys seem to say that the ideal angle is 45' when its at its resting height. And then about 15-20' from horizontal compressed? I know i havnt got the ARB bar on yet and no ones in the car, but still its pretty close correct?

Or is what im reading completely wrong and i should drill it back anyway?

[want33s]

That angle looks pretty good at the moment but it will compress with the weight of bar etc and a bit when you raise the rear.
Should be OK though. You must have used 'short' rears.
How much clearance have you got between the back of the pitman arm and the tie rod? That is the reason you'd need to move the diff back by redrilling the perch or turning them around..

[Shansh]

mine look just about exactly the same with TSOR 2" extended shackles and dobinsons 2" lifted rears, was thinking of doing a RUF but if they are "short" rears maybe im better off not doing the RUF without getting some longer rears?

[abclarke]

Ill have to have a closer look at the steering when i get home from work tomorrow.

I was thinking if it doesnt level itself out with the extra weight in the front, would finding some slightly longer rears for the back and using the other 2 extended shackles i still got have any upside?

[jim_dover]

What ended up happening with this?? I had the same thing in my SWB and never binded up. But apparently that is a issue :/ Was about to do the same to my LWB with Hilux in the rear for the reasons you said in regards to leveling it out. Keen to hear if its all good or not.

Nick

[KEENSY85]

And what did the ane actually end up like once u drop the jack??

[stockman]

KEENSY85 wrote:

And what did the ane actually end up like once u drop the jack??

Clearly, the jack is not touching the pumpkin

[want33s]

Even if the jack was supporting the entire weight of the front end, the shackle "ane" (sic) would not be any different to what is shown in the pics.

[abclarke]

KEENSY85 wrote:

And what did the ane actually end up like once u drop the jack??

My invisible block kept the shackle at a nice angle JUST for the photo

Havnt had a chance to take it offroad properly yet but fucking around in my grandparents driveway and it looked alright, gonna have to make up some new bumpstop spacers but!

Ill upload pics in a sec after i cook dinner

[abclarke]

Few pics to help explain



Its got a bit more to go, but ran out of ramp lol.







And need to make up a few more spacers, cant really make it out from this photo, but needs to come forward about 20mmish.

[KEENSY85]

My bad, I didn't mean any harm hope nice work

[2stroker]

Looks like you have got away with it for now because you have a full solid pack with plenty of arch which keeps the distance eye to eye fairly short even under the weight of the car. If you remove a leaf or they sag a bit you may find that the shackles would invert forward and lock out. Your bump stop extensions may stop them from flatening out too much to the point that you have foward inversion problems, most people dont get away with it like this because they run a softer pack so the spring is longer eye to eye when under the weight of the car. Some people have been able to get away with it by using Suzuki Carry rears and longer shackles because they are like a Sierra rear just a bit shorter, kind of half way between a rear Sierra and a front Sierra. You may not have steering arm binding problems either because the bump stop extensions will stop full upward suspension travel so the draglink and track rod may never actually get level with each other. Handling may be adversely affected but again you may not notice that because of the tyre size you are already running.

[KEENSY85]

want33s wrote:

Even if the jack was supporting the entire weight of the front end, the shackle "ane" (sic) would not be any different to what is shown in the pics.

But I thought shackel angle was determined by the load and the way it was articulating at the time so if u lift the car it will the angle would get steeper or vice versus, and I must not understand the could u explain what u mean I mean obviously the shackel angle changes as the suspension cycles through full motion

[atari4x4]

think about it, it's lifting the weight of the car by jacking off the diff so the springs are still "compressed & sitting at ride height".

[abclarke]

I'd be more than happy drilling the holes back a bit and taking a leaf out if that means the flex will improve but

[want33s]

KEENSY85 wrote:

want33s wrote:

Even if the jack was supporting the entire weight of the front end, the shackle "ane" (sic) would not be any different to what is shown in the pics.

But I thought shackel angle was determined by the load and the way it was articulating at the time so if u lift the car it will the angle would get steeper or vice versus, and I must not understand the could u explain what u mean I mean obviously the shackel angle changes as the suspension cycles through full motion

Car at rest has the weight of the front end on the tyres right? Tyres are connected to diff.
Car with jack under diff just transfers the weight on the ground to under the jack instead of under the tyres.
As far as the springs are concerned they are still holding the weight of the front.

Go outside and measure the gaps between your axle and bumpstops and then jack the car up LEVEL(from under the diff)... You can get the tyres off the ground and the bumpstop spacing won't change.

If you jack up just one wheel you will see some articulation and yes, the shackle angle will then change.

[2stroker]

abclarke wrote:

I'd be more than happy drilling the holes back a bit and taking a leaf out if that means the flex will improve but

Drilling the holes back wont improve flex it will stop the steering arms binding and I think that if you take a leaf out you will have more angle than you have now and you will be more likely to bump out and invert the shackles.

[Joshyboy26]

looking at the photos even if its about 20mm to the bumpstop (which is very conservative) i dont think the shackle will invert. it looks like a pretty sweet angle to me. the 'longest' the pack will ever be will be at bump so just leave IMO.

[Gwagensteve]

Not quite josh. The pack is at its longest when the bumpstop is fully compressed and the axle is articulated. Not just at bump.

[Joshyboy26]

Yeah ok my bad, i should have worded it a bit better. either way I dont reckon it will invert I guess we'll just have to see.
Go for a 4by abclarke so we can see haha.

[abclarke]

2stroker wrote:

abclarke wrote:

I'd be more than happy drilling the holes back a bit and taking a leaf out if that means the flex will improve but

Drilling the holes back wont improve flex it will stop the steering arms binding and I think that if you take a leaf out you will have more angle than you have now and you will be more likely to bump out and invert the shackles.

Haha yeah quick post from my phone so didnt bother much. Yeah what i was meaning to say was take a leaf out, then the shackles will flip so id move the hole back to correct the angle.

Am i on the right path?

[Jazzor]

Moving the dif location on the spring won't stop any shackle inverting action. That's purely to stop steering components hitting when the springs are compressed.

Looks like a decent combo of leafs and shackles

[Joshyboy26]

^^I think he means redrilling the rear spring mount to move the whole pack rearward.

[Jazzor]

In that case it may fix steering hitting issues and drag the shackles more vertical if that is required.

FYI everyone has different springs and shackles so you may not need to do anything, but it's good to understand how things work in case you do .

[abclarke]

Joshyboy26 wrote:

^^I think he means redrilling the rear spring mount to move the whole pack rearward.

Yeah sorry guys thats what i meant.

To my understanding anyway, if i take a leaf out then i might invert the shackles, so to counter act this i was going to drill the rear mount back to correct the angle.

Still wanna take the shocks off and check how much room i have to move with the ones i have on there now

[Joshyboy26]

taking a leaf out will only help you get to the bumpstops or make it ride a bit better.
as long as it gets to bumpstop now, and they dont invert when fully flexed out, taking a leaf out will not make them invert.
obviously if you cant get to the bumpstops now due to spring rate, taking a few leafs out could cause you to flex more and this could lead to a shackle inversion.

[want33s]

WT perches don't have enough meat to redrill the hole rearward like NT perches do... Cut the perches off the chassis, turn them around, weld them back on and the hole centres will be moved about 20mm back.....
OR
Move the shackle perch forward15-20mm.


I would say you have to much angle looking at those pics.

[JrZook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Not quite josh. The pack is at its longest when the bumpstop is fully compressed and the axle is articulated. Not just at bump.

Nope! The torsional twist in the leaf makes it shorter. Longest the leaf will be is when the axle is straight and compresses the bump stops ie hard landing on the front or just heavily loaded up in the rear and hitting a descent dip in the road.

[KEENSY85]

want33s wrote:

KEENSY85 wrote:

want33s wrote:

Even if the jack was supporting the entire weight of the front end, the shackle "ane" (sic) would not be any different to what is shown in the pics.

But I thought shackel angle was determined by the load and the way it was articulating at the time so if u lift the car it will the angle would get steeper or vice versus, and I must not understand the could u explain what u mean I mean obviously the shackel angle changes as the suspension cycles through full motion

Car at rest has the weight of the front end on the tyres right? Tyres are connected to diff.
Car with jack under diff just transfers the weight on the ground to under the jack instead of under the tyres.
As far as the springs are concerned they are still holding the weight of the front.

Go outside and measure the gaps between your axle and bumpstops and then jack the car up LEVEL(from under the diff)... You can get the tyres off the ground and the bumpstop spacing won't change.

If you jack up just one wheel you will see some articulation and yes, the shackle angle will then change.

Sorry my bad having blonde moment, I don't know what I was thinking, and the but I think it's time for what attari4x4, calls face punch, for my self of course