[Kimtown]

atari4x4 wrote:

Kimtown wrote:

christover1 wrote:

Thinner tyres work better on light cars, in my experiences.

good to hear, thanks for the reply!

29 simexs locked in then

I'm thinking Sunraysias might be a little heavy for the old girl...

a 15x7 sunny weighs 11kgs

hmmm seems not to bad, might just save all the hastle and settle for some sunnies then. can't beat the looks of some black 'raysias imo

edit: this may be an ultra n00b question, but are diff gears universal between suzuki 4wds? e.g will 4.16s out of a vitara fit a jimny? I would assume they wouldn't, but I could be wrong?

[zooky08]

Rear maybe but the front end wrecks that idea. The front end of the jimny is a different size to the rear.
About a 1lt sierra size diff. Rear is 1.3lt sierra size. your better off with getting tc gears or a sierra case swap.
You wont get enough reduction with diff gears and theres no swap available accept the rear as far as i know

[neofitou]

For a moderate Jimny for ruts I suggest the Sunnies with 30s and a guard chop or the Simex mentioned above a two inch lift and a sierra case, Diff locks and Chromolly CVs.
Put a diff lock in the rear, if you put one in the front too use it sparingly to avoid breaking stuff.
I (and a few others) think the big suspenstion lifts should be avoided.

If you need to go bigger due to really big ruts you can probably push up to 33s on uprated CVs like MudMuncher does so long as your gentle. Add in a body lift and some massaging to fit them.
More than that you will want bigger diffs. What state are you in?

[Kimtown]

neofitou wrote:

For a moderate Jimny for ruts I suggest the Sunnies with 30s and a guard chop or the Simex mentioned above a two inch lift and a sierra case, Diff locks and Chromolly CVs.
Put a diff lock in the rear, if you put one in the front too use it sparingly to avoid breaking stuff.
I (and a few others) think the big suspenstion lifts should be avoided.

If you need to go bigger due to really big ruts you can probably push up to 33s on uprated CVs like MudMuncher does so long as your gentle. Add in a body lift and some massaging to fit them.
More than that you will want bigger diffs. What state are you in?

Wow thanks heaps man, you literally answered all of my questions. I'm in Gippsland, Victoria. roughly 100km east of Melbourne and yeah moderate 4wd is what I will be doing. Obviously I'm not building a tuff truck or a winch challenge vehicle. just something that I can go out in, have some fun and try some decent snotty looking hills

One thing though, arnt cromo cv's and axels extremely hard to come by for jimnys? and rather expensive when you do happen to find some? I don't think I'll bother ever going above 31's to be honest, and 29 centis will do me for a while, but thanks anyway for the info!!

edit: 3" lift overkill you reckon?

[bigdogdazza]

No 3" lift is not overkill it's awesome! My Jimny has 3" suspension and I love it!!! I am also fitting 2" body lift this weekend. I have removed front swaybar permanently and it's my daily driver of 300+ kms a day, so as for 3" being to much that's garbage bud. I run 31" bighorns and have done a gaurd chop and the ONLY time tyres rub is at full compression on front with steering full lock it slightly touches the bar under the headlight bucket, it's not an issue but I am fitting the body lift so can run 33,s. I also don't run bumps top spacing either, just stock what comes from factory. I don't believe big bumpstops are the way to go so you have no up travel.each to their own but most on here will fall into the 2" lift max and tiny tyre syndrome for fear of gearing and cv failure etc. chromoly cv,s and axles are easily obtained but unfortunately not cheap and will require your front locker to have side gears resplined from 22 to 26, which isn't a problem but yes more cost. In my opinion 31" tyres on -13 rims and 3" lift is a perfect combo for clearance, flex, stability and all round awesomeness! Word of advice get adjustable shocks!
One other problem I have come across since fitting suspension/tyre mods is, on my way to and from anywhere I find myself eying off any dirt tracks, mud bogs, rutted hills etc! I used to cringe when confronted with a potholed tar road but now everything is super plush!

[Kimtown]

Thanks for the advice now... so unsure on what I want now?

How does your jimny cope lugging around 31's? also where can you find the chromoly cv's and axels?

[bigdogdazza]

Trialjimny, lror I think do them, or could ora? Jimnybits will have them at end of the year. As for the 31,s with stock transfer gears its a bit tedious, can be driven on and offroad but hates the hills, I just had a fellow forum member whack in reduction gears into my transfer case today, fitted all up again but still doing wheel bearings, hub seals, rear diff seal, new hd clutch, body lift so haven't driven it yet with the gearing! You do have options with that as well with either a Sierra transfer case and crawler gears, you will also need front jack shafts to suit or get the trialjimny 24% reduction Hearst and fit to your jimny transfer case... But I have been told this may not be low enough reduction for 31,s.... Will have to wait and see..... If not I will sell my transfer case with gears in it and go Sierra as I wish to run 33" tyres so will need more gearing. Some members on here also put in a order for chromo axles/cv,s for jimny diffs and I believe a couple may be wanting to sell before they arrive? Not sure on that one????
The guy you really want to talk to is 31zook(josh) he is really knowledgable and a great guy who won't steer you wrong.

[Blakey]

KEENSY85 wrote:

Skippy wrote:

KEENSY85 wrote:

And defently aftermatket control arms similar to off road armoury maybe pm some one like fatzook or similar to see if u could get some made

I wonder if fatzook would be interested? I'm sure people would rather buy local then send it overseas.

I hope so other wise he will be pissed at me for name droping.

if he is i was planing on seeing he about some other stuff but my Jimny has got some ORA 3" castor corrected arms on it he might be able to get some measurements off. for some local made ones.

need some local places to get Jimny stuff.

[rummy1]

Kimtown: As a fitter and turner by trade i want to give you some advice. Alloy wheels generally aren't any useful amount lighter than an equivilant steel wheel because of something known as density. The steel wheel, by the material's nature, is a heap stronger by weight than alloy. What this means is you'd need alot more alloy than steel to create the same level of strength, making the wheel itself heavier.

I have a 2010 jimny sierra and the factory alloys that i recently sold were 13.5kg each, the sunny style steelies that replaced them were 9kg flat, and the steel wheels are rated (ADR's here) at carrying 1120kg per wheel, alloys only 650kg. Yes you can buy much heavier duty alloys than that, but the wheel itself becomes much heavier and more difficult for your car to rotate them.

One of the old yardsticks for being able to reshape an alloy is this: heat the alloy up nice and slowly to a bloody hot temperature! the best way to measure the temp is to get a paddle pop stick and lightly rub the timber of the paddle pop stick over the surface of the alloy. Once the alloy is hot enough, the rubbing of the timber will leave a brown mark on the metal surface. When this is achieved, start hitting it with a broad faced hammer gently and the wheel will start coming back into shape. Would you want to carry and oxy torch, a box of paddle pop sticks, a flint and a big hammer into the bush? or just carry an average sized ball pein hammer when your steelie takes a big hit? (steel wheels don't need to be heated up to reshape them either)

Just don't want to see you waste money and become stranded is all mate

Terry

[Kimtown]

rummy1 wrote:

Kimtown: As a fitter and turner by trade i want to give you some advice. Alloy wheels generally aren't any useful amount lighter than an equivilant steel wheel because of something known as density. The steel wheel, by the material's nature, is a heap stronger by weight than alloy. What this means is you'd need alot more alloy than steel to create the same level of strength, making the wheel itself heavier.

I have a 2010 jimny sierra and the factory alloys that i recently sold were 13.5kg each, the sunny style steelies that replaced them were 9kg flat, and the steel wheels are rated (ADR's here) at carrying 1120kg per wheel, alloys only 650kg. Yes you can buy much heavier duty alloys than that, but the wheel itself becomes much heavier and more difficult for your car to rotate them.

One of the old yardsticks for being able to reshape an alloy is this: heat the alloy up nice and slowly to a bloody hot temperature! the best way to measure the temp is to get a paddle pop stick and lightly rub the timber of the paddle pop stick over the surface of the alloy. Once the alloy is hot enough, the rubbing of the timber will leave a brown mark on the metal surface. When this is achieved, start hitting it with a broad faced hammer gently and the wheel will start coming back into shape. Would you want to carry and oxy torch, a box of paddle pop sticks, a flint and a big hammer into the bush? or just carry an average sized ball pein hammer when your steelie takes a big hit? (steel wheels don't need to be heated up to reshape them either)

Just don't want to see you waste money and become stranded is all mate

Terry

yeah cheers for the info mate, sunnies are locked in haha, they are a fair bit cheaper to!

[bigdogdazza]

Fitted the 24% reduction gears(thanks to 31zook!) on the weekend and running 31" tyres I think it's perfect fit, any lower and it would be tedious to drive on the road. It revs @ 4250rpm at 103kmph on the freeway haven't tried it out in the dirt yet but should be fine.

[zukenutter]

bigdogdazza wrote:

Fitted the 24% reduction gears(thanks to 31zook!) on the weekend and running 31" tyres I think it's perfect fit, any lower and it would be tedious to drive on the road. It revs @ 4250rpm at 103kmph on the freeway haven't tried it out in the dirt yet but should be fine.

You'll wonder how you could bare it without gears.

[bigdogdazza]

Yup....

[31zook]

how did you work out your speed?

[bigdogdazza]

Gps on my navman, I figured the speedo is out by roughly 17kmph when travelling around 100kph.

[Kimtown]

hey fellas, picked the bad girl up last night!

quick question, when i was taking off out of the service lane on the freeway, had to get moving quickly, so the jimny was sitting at around 5k revs for a couple seconds... the engine light on the dash came on. it's not flickering though, just solid.

does anyone know of any reason this could be? or would it just be coincidence that it came on when i happen to be revving the guts out of it?

[Blakey]

reving the engine that high shouldnt hurt the engine the light proably came on cause you blew some gunk out the exhaust from the high revs and might of gotten on the 02 sensor. (maybe)

otherwise only way to know is to hook it up to a computer and check what code the ECU threw up.

[zukenutter]

My Jimny hits 5k every gear, still 1500rpm below redline so shouldn't be that. If 5k is what caused it there must be something else wrong.

[zooky08]

X2 some thing else is wrong. I dont change gears until im 5k or more in my jimny.

[bigdogdazza]

Same, mine regularly sees over 5000rpm and no lights.

[Kimtown]

maybe it could be an 02 sensor in the exhaust or some little shit like that then?

[bigdogdazza]

I would take it to a shop that runs diagnostic checks before you start replacing expensive parts that aren't broke?

[neofitou]

You will sort this pretty quick with the diag.

Start a build thread and throw up some pics!

There was a Jimny in the club on 32s with no body lift and not much in the suspension (before good CVs were availiable).
Lower is better, especially so for VIC. My next build will be bigger and lower.

There is a big thread on here with quite a few Jimny owners saying how good and stable the 3" lift is that ends with a Jimny being written off because it fell over.
But if you dont mind flopping it, go for it.

[Gwagensteve]

I haven't liked the look of Jimny's offroad with 3" lifts in them, especially the JB kit - looked far too loose to me.

We went out with a couple of Jimny's earlier this year, one was running the 3" JB kit, the other OME 40mm.

Even though the OME car was running a sizeable roof rack, it was stable and the owner wasn't at all concerned about side angles. The owner of the JB 3" car was packing it on side angles and the car looked spooky.

Both cars were running the same sized tyre, rim offset and neither was locked, so it was as straight like-for-like comparison.

The JB car had more flex, but is that relevant if you're not confident behind the wheel because the car feels loose?

Steve.

[Kimtown]

hmm. good points fellas, maybe might try 2" then? should still be plenty of clearance for 29"/7.5" centis...?

also on that note, I've read a lot about different rim offsets on jimnys here, what would work best for this size tyre?

pics will be up tonight in a build thread, once i get home from working away

[bigdogdazza]

-13 will be what you get from any tyre shop if you ask for jimny sunraysia style rims in 15x7 which is pretty much the standard size if going larger tyres. You may be able to fit the centipedes on the stock rims?

[zooky08]

i ran jb 3 kit with 215 tires and had it on slopes, stabble as imo.
might look loose but jimny are more stable then sierra's i reckon.

[Gwagensteve]

zooky8, I do think that Jimny's are fairly stable, but they have a fairly high COG in the rear and have more vulnerable bodywork out the back that makes people nervous.

Less height = more stability though side by side on the same track I could see I'd pick the lower car. I'm not convinced the JB 3" kit allows a Jimny to run more tyre than a lower kit, so I'm not sure there's a case for the taller lift.

Steve.

[bigdogdazza]

Yup I flopped my jimny on its side! Oh wait that was with stock ride height and 225 tyres.... Now with 3" JB and 31,s I have driven same track same spot and no probs? My jimny must be backwards!!?? Now I am running 3"JB and 2" body lift in preparation for Hilux diffs and 33,s. I must admit at this height I won't be doing any crazy side angle shit just in case!

[Gwagensteve]

bigdogdazza - I don't suppose you added any width when you went from 225 to 31's though, did you? Imagine how stable it would be with 33's and hilux diffs if it was stock height?

Copied across form the tyre dribble thread.

Kimtown wrote:

thanks very helpful, didn't realize the mp's came in such a narrow yet tall tyre. these could be the go. how would they sit under a 3" lift on stock guards?

3" with 32" tyres would raise the centre of gravity greatly though I'm thinking...

and what kind of price range would you be looking at for a larger aftermarket tranny cooler? I will consider it. my original thoughts were if it ever did go, heavens forbid, I'd just install a m16b with a manual gearbox instead of fixing the ridiculously priced gearbox.

edit: I should have just brought a sierra

Thank goodness you're in Victoria so I can talk about what works without people chiming in that what I'm saying isn't relevant.

I don't think "avoiding side angles" is an option for us. The tracks out in the forests dictate the side angles we're going to see. In fact, more cars flop from trying to avoid deep ruts or vehicle damage rather than due to the track itself, if you see what I mean.

I don't think I've never seen any situation where I've thought a car is too low (as in lift height) , but I've seen lots of situations where I've thought a car had too small tyres. In fact, almost every time I go out there's some situation where a slightly larger (diameter) tyre would be an advantage.

I've also seen plenty of situations where I thought a car was too tall. Sometimes that's been my car, and I don't care if I flop my car, but if the car has nice bodywork and is worth money all the more - a tall car is hard to trust.

Because our terrain isn't all crawlable, sometimes it's just necessary to bump the car up something, or get into 3rd low and build momentum. That's where tall cars get spooky.

Lifting a car to fit a tyre is false. The clearance to run a tyre is at full compression, when the axle is on the bumpstop. That has nothing to do with suspension lift, which is the static height the suspension sits when the car is in motion.

I'll describe it using these photos. Please don't take offence Kimtown if you already understand this, but the whole suspension lift to run tyres thing comes up so often it's worth rehashing.

These photos aren't of a Jimny, (It's aactually of the Hall Bros Racing class 8 patrol, with is awesome, even for a patrol,) but it doesn't matter.

Here's the car at ride height.



Here's the car at full droop


and here's the car (or very near) full compression



The amount of suspension travel is fixed by design constraints. In the case of this modified car, it's around 300mm (which is impressive) In a Jimny, it might be around 180mm before custom fabrication is required.

Normally, a car might be set up with 50% compression and 50% droop, and that looks to the case with this patrol, give or take, so that's 6" up an 6" down.

Lets assume that that car was at standard height, as it sits in those photos, with 12" of travel and 6" up and 6" down.

If you added 3" of lift, all that will happen is that the suspension will have 9" of up travel and 3" down. When it lands the jump, there's still nothing stopping the tyres getting as close to the guards as they did before the 3" lift, because how far the axle can move is a design consideration, it's not a reflection of where the suspension sits in that travel.

My own car has about 2" of compression travel and the balance in droop. That's because I don't drive fast and want my car low.

I can swap springs in minutes to raise and lower it - but how close the tyre goes to the guard doesn't change when I lift the car, only the "rest" or "static" position of the axles relative to the car.

I hope that makes sense.

So, with that discussed... you can see why I say that suspension lift cannot, and does not, fit a larger tyre.

There are three things that can fit a larger tyre to a car:

Body lift - this spaces the body away from the chassis, so even when the axles are fully compressed against the bumpstops, there is more room between the tyre and the guard

Bumpstop spacing - this limits how far the axle can move upwards. If you had 8" of travel, 4" up and 4" down, and added a 2" bumpstop spacer, the effect is exactly the same (from a tyre clearance perspective) as adding a 2" body lift, but the car doesn't get any taller. However, you will loose 2" of wheel travel, so the result is 2" up and 4" down, 6 total.

Guard cutting - leave the suspension alone and cut the body away to make room for the tyres.

Obviously, only guard cutting has no negative effect on the behaviour of the car, the other two have some effect.

In reality, the solution to running a big tyre is usually some combination of all three.

Lift springs might be useful to retain compression travel if bumpstop spacing is used.

In the example above, if I have 8" of travel, 4" up and 4" down, and add a 2" bumpstop spacer, I would have 2" compression travel after the spacers are installed. That might not be enough to retain a good ride, so if I fit 2" lift springs, I would have 4" of compression, the same as before the spacers went in, but only 2" of droop.

However, this is where things get interesting.

Once 2" bumpstop spacing goes in, a shock can be fitted that's almost 4" longer, extended, than stock, so it's possible to get that "lost travel" back, so, depending on your use, it's possible to have a very low car - even stock height, if you are willing to give up the compression travel, but have more overall wheel travel than stock.

So, a combination of guard cutting, bumpstop spacing, and longer shocks is what allowed this car to run a 235/85/16 (32X9") with only about 1" of suspension lift.



This car was very stable, very subtle, and quite capable. It suffered from the normal Jimny weaknesses (CV's, rear diff) but there are workarounds available, or coming, for these that wern't available when Mitch built this.

I will add that Mitch had 3" springs in this car with 30" tyres and hated it at that height. It was MUCH better once dropped down.

Mud_Muncher is another vic member who has been dropping his Jimny since he bought it. He bought it in full NSW hektic style, (5"springs and 3" body lift to clear 32" tyres) it's now not too tall and runs 34" swampers.



It would be nice if it was a bit lower, but it's a pretty good compromise. It wouldn't need to be even that tall if it ran, say, 32" tyres. His build thread is pretty good reading for a Vic driven M engined Jimny viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22944

Gearing:

Whilst it's possible to play with chains and planetaries (APIO and Trial Jimny) and they can be combined, it's an expensive process. A Sierra case is really the answer. even 4:1 gears in a sierra case would be quite useable.

Lockers:

Lockers are the #1 capability upgrade you can do to your car. it doesn't matter how much tyre you have, if it's in the air and you have open diffs, you're stuck (Which is why I suggested lockers first). Lockers let you slow right down, choose better lines, and make better decisions about when to use momentum, for example. I couldn't imagine driving a car that wasn't locked. You'll rarely have the perfect tyre for the job, but lockers are always a huge advantage.

That auto:

There's nothing wrong with the jimny auto, but it's very small and gains heat very quickly. On the same track on the same day, my AW-4 vitara auto was running 50˚ cooler than the jimny auto in gregc's car. He stopped to cool it down when it reached 130˚ or something but without a temp gauge, he would never have known he was cooking it. He runs a very large PWR cooler in front of the radiator (10X12") and has just ordered a fan cooled cooler pack to be mounted elsewhere (like this) along with the existing cooler.



Don't get it hot and you won't break it. Greg runs his into a 4:1 case (shortly to be a 6.5:1 case) and 5.12 diffs with 35" tyres and the auto has been perfectly fine in over 6 years of very hard off road use. He's a habitual crawler, so he's always slipping the converter, which is where the heat comes from.

A generic water temp gauge tapped into a tee on the cooler flow line is all that's required to monitor temp - the range of a water temp gauge is fine. It's what I use. In my opinion, it's not a consideration, it's 100% a must.

Manuals suck offroad compared to autos, so don't even consider a manual swap. If you broke the auto, I'd be looking at a J20/AW-4 swap long before I put a manual in. If you gear the car correctly and learn to work with the auto, you'll never go back to a manual.

Anyways, there's some thoughts to consider.

Steve.