[Wishitwasn'taDrover]

Hi guys im thinking of doing a SOA conversion I've found one in the states that give me all i need with it the high steer kit. I've found a goodquality high steer kit but its more than.the SOA kit. Is it eventual to.have one or can i go.with.out one for a while??

[kenn]

Hi and welcome,
Yes you will need one. You will also need an engineers certificate if you want to drive it in Vic and thats who I'd go and see first tell them of your plans and see what they say. Vic Roads has a list of approved engineers so maybe start there. Good luck with the build.

[christover1]

Some things sold in the States don't suit our right hand drive,
so do your research well.

[Wishitwasn'taDrover]

Thanks guys. the hi steer kit is sold over here its by superior engineering. I've only just got my drover and keen to Rip into it I've been doing a bit of research on them and do realise about the rhd and lhd differences bit kept running into dead ends witch is why i found this forum. ill check out those engineers mobs and ill be sure to past uo some progress pics to. thanks for your help again guys.

[Gwagensteve]

Hi mate, welcome to the board.

Funny, there seems to have been a rash of SPOA questions lately. All of a sudden, it's like the clock's been wound back 10 years.

Firstly, Kenn is right on the money here - SPOA is a very involved conversion, and an engineer will be very specific about what you can and can't do. It's going to be hard to keep overall height within an approved height, and steering system modifications are generally very, very carefully scrutinised. It's quite possible that none of the important or expensive parts of that US made kit would be permitted by the engineer, or may require expensive testing before the individual parts are approved.

However, an engineer won't ask you the most important question of all - why do you want to do this? Their job is to put the legal stamp on your project, not to tell you it's a great idea. In fact, they may have no idea at all why you want to do your chosen conversion and aren't likely to care - they will just ensure it meets minimum safety standards.

Another note that's worth mentioning.

Whilst some Victorian engineers have approved SWB sierras with 31" tyres, it's increasingly difficult as it's a little bit of a rule bend. In truth, if your car has a 15" tyre placard (likely to be for H78 15's) the biggest tyre the engineer can approve is a 28" tyre, and that's not really worth building a SPOA car for. If you do all the engineering work and then run a 31" tyre, you car isn't legal and isn't approved, should you be subject to an inspection or involved in an accident.

If your car has lots of custom fabrication on it, then there might be a good reason to certify the car and then run a bigger tyre "for offroad use only," and there's no problem doing that, it's important to recognise an engineer can't legally comply any tyre you are likely to want to run - especially with the 5" of lift a SPOA provides.

Also, I assume you're aware that your car is currently narrow track. You'll really be wanting to swap to wide track axles early on in the piece. They aren't ideal for stability and are a strength upgrade dead end (and I'm not sure you can buy a hi steer kit for NT axles for good reason )- there's also no heavy duty axles available. You can keep it narrow and it will be plenty capable, but you'll really want to keep it low.

So, to start with, I know you'll be super keen to "rip into" your project, but take a step back, do a lot of research, and really plan your build out. You'll notice on here there's very few SPOA on here. Lots of SPOA cars were built around a decade ago, some were quite good, some were terrible, but all of them generally took lots of time to get sorted, (if they were ever properly sorted), to the extent that plenty of people moved on to coils/links or back to SPUA rather than continue down to try and sort out a SPOA car.

The trend in car building over the last ten years ago has been that cars are being built lower, and tyres are getting bigger. 31's and a SPOA (sometimes with lift springs and/or a body lift) were really common back in the day, but the spooky road handling, short spring and uni life, and pants-dampening off-camber performance meant the novelty wore off for lots of people, and probably more so in Vic where our terrain is so off-camber and the mud means we struggle to pick clean lines.

The thing is, it's easy to run a 31" tyre with just a 2" body lift, and the low centre of gravity that results makes for a trustworthy car that's easy to build and critically, easy to drive on road as it doesn't attract attention.

In my opinion, tyre size (for diff clearance and traction) and a low centre of gravity is where it's at for our terrain. It's really hard to build a car that's SPUA with the stability of SPOA, so some of the apparent advantages of SPOA don't look so great if you're packing it because the car feels like it's going to roll. A really experienced driver can learn to drive through the spooky and get good performance, but that's kind of perverse if the lift isn't required or adding to capability.

I know you asked a simple question and this is far from a simple reply - feel free to pay no attention - but it sounds like you're pretty new to building sierras and it would be a shame if you got some way down the road of a build up and weren't happy with the outcome. Much better to learn from others experience than your own.

So, how much tyre do you plan to run, and how much experience do you have with suzuki's off road? If it's not much, you might be surprised at how capable a really simple build is without having to totally rework the steering and suspension. For my money, throw a locker in the back, a 2" BL, some 31's, some transfer gears and drive it, and start building up experience about what you'd like the car to be able to do.

I've been playing with suzuki's for almost 20 years and building my own car for 6 years, and I've just got it to where I want it, and that's as much about me building my skills and experience (and therefore changing how I want the car to work) as it is about the car itself.

Steve.

Oh and check out http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com, We don't bite

[atari4x4]

^^^ TL:DR

SPOA NT FTW

[Wishitwasn'taDrover]

thanks steve you've givien me a different out look on this. i am very new to suzuki's always wanted one but only just found a good one. ive been 4wding for a few years and have a pretty well set up GQ patrol. what you've said makes perfect sence you may have just saved me alot of head ache. thanks again.

luke.

[SierraDan]

Wishitwasn'taDrover wrote:

pretty well set up GQ patrol.
luke.

This is probably what may cause you to have bad modifying habits.. Spend some time looking at the common setups you're likely to find in the Rigs section.

[Gwagensteve]

AZ took a dump and Dan got in before me. This was my post:

Cool Luke, thanks for reading.

GQ's are very wide and very stable - they work very differently to a sierra offroad. It's very common to see guys stepping down (up ) from big cars applying big car thinking to small cars, and it's a hard way to build a sierra.

I've had a number of big cars, and spent years chasing mildly built sierras in my 36" tyred Gwagen, and sierras are a very different kettle of fish. They aren't as stable (stock, or really even modified*) but we don't tend to line up obstacles and hit them in one smooth motion the way big cars with lots of stability and compression travel do. We tend to pick our way through spending more time on the obstacles, but "working" the lines and extracting lots of fun from a piece of track. With much narrower track width, much lower gearing, and equivalent diff clearance, we have much, much more line choice on any given piece of track.

I'm being completely honest here - a sierra on 31's with a basic build will be roughly as capable on hard terrain as a GQ on 35's, but obviously the technique is different.

* Not that they are unstable, per se, but you need to be careful.

[Wishitwasn'taDrover]

Yeah ive come to relize that Dan they are to very different cars.

I hear you loud a clear kenn. I've decided against the soa conversion but now looking for some wide track diffs. to give it a little more stability if any im very open to any tips and advice and things i should or shouldn't do. i was looking into different shackles but not sure if i should go extended or scissors action shackles. so im just going to do a bit of research before i start spending money on things i don't need.

[tanshi]

Welcome to AZ and thank god we finally got a new guy who came along and didnt already know every thing.

You'll do well around here if you read alot, and make an informed decision.

[Wishitwasn'taDrover]

cheers tanshi im always looking for things to keep me busy i learnt with my patrol i need to do a lot of research and listen to those who have done it all before. i spent more money than i needed on it due to lack of knowlage. i joined AZ because i had no clue to what i was doing and figured a forums the best place to look.

im looking to hopfully do things the right way first time around on my drover. will probably start by changing the grille and lights to make it look like what it should haha (a sierra).

[Gwagensteve]

Wishitwasn'taDrover wrote:

i was looking into different shackles but not sure if i should go extended or scissors action shackles. so im just going to do a bit of research before i start spending money on things i don't need.

Extended shackles can be useful for tuning ride height or achieving full travel with longer springs or relocated spring hangers, but they may also create some problems, mostly reduced caster in the front end that messes up the handing. Also, unless you add bumpstop spacing or modify the shock mounts, there's very little added wheel travel from running longer shackles. They are something to consider if you are planning RUF, bumpstop spacing and longer shock mounts, but do very little to improve the car if it's still running factory shock and spring mounts.

I can't see any good reason for scissor/drop shackles. Have a look at that photo of Gregc's car on that side angle. If that car had drop shackles they would have opened up on the high side and the car would have fallen over. (greg did eventially drive it over in that spot, but let's call that driver error. The car was fine in that photo )
The "unloading" effect of drop shackles doesn't make the car more capable when you're on sketchy angles or under power.

It's the same as having super long shocks and loose coils in a GQ - once the coil goes loose, the car might look like it's flexing really well, but in reality, there's little added capability, and a potential loss of stability.

Here's my car with loose coils and long shocks getting all spooky:



And that's the same effect as drop shackles - the body can "flop" over as far as the shackles will allow, and it's uncontrolled.

I've fitted limit straps to prevent this in my coil converted car. There's more to a stable, trustworthy, drivable car than flex.

I know it sounds like I keep poo-pooing all these easy mods, but really, you'd be amazed how few mods you'll need to match the off-road capability of your GQ with a Sierra.

Steve.

[kenn]

I Had scissor shackles for years Steve and never had such a problem but then I drive on the tracks not the banks..

[Gwagensteve]

Each to their own kenn

Steve.

[kenn]

Tread lightly.

[Gwagensteve]

Always. Actually, in the photo is Greg's car, he was trying to stay on the track rather than drive the fresh and very soft/unstable bypass that had been pushed through the scrub around the obstacle, so sometimes, things aren't quite what they seem.

Steve.

[kenn]

Fair enough, I could see in that photo some tyre tracks either side of his driver side wheels and thought why not just do what that car did and go up the middle of the track, thats all..

[Gwagensteve]

no problem, I can see how that looked. I don't have a photo pointing the other way, but the ruts were gnarly.

Steve.

[Wishitwasn'taDrover]

thanks for all your input guys but some things i may have to learn for myself. ill will still have to make some mistakes to really learn what works and what doesn't for what suits me. when it comes down to if you dont make mistakes you wont learn from them, but im still not doing an SOA anymore. ill see where this all takes me and post some pics along the way.

Luke.