[31zook]

How much does it change the track Joe?

[303zuke]

joeblow wrote:

Ok guys. If the Jimny owners who want full floaters are serious than I have some good news.

I have been in contact with BenT and my idea is as follows.

I will make the axles and mounting plates all based around one of his great Galant rear disc systems.

What do you think?

I'd be interested if you could do it using the Pintara calipers just for pad compatibility, as I have these already on my Sierra using your kit. Could the plates be cut with Pintara spacing as an option? Ben's plumbing should stay the same, but the handbrake cable ends may differ.

And of course, what is the expected approx price???

[Bugsta]

My vote would be Pintara callipers, as they have been suggested by a local mechanic I use, and always has great advice for me. (He has done this conversion before).

If using Vit hubs do change the track, I'd consider Jimny hubs as I have a full set of early fronts in the shed.

[Blakey]

joeblow wrote:

Ok guys. If the Jimny owners who want full floaters are serious than I have some good news.

I have been in contact with BenT and my idea is as follows.

I will make the axles and mounting plates all based around one of his great Galant rear disc systems. He will supply all the relevant brake hardware as per his kits such as lines, brackets etc.

This way it will be a full bolt on kit that should take no more than a day to fit.

This idea will also transfer to the Vitara stuff.

What do you think?

cant it be made with something better like some willwood single or double pot calipers.? as they are pretty cheap and far better brakes then sourcing old ones.

[Gwagensteve]

Blakey wrote:

cant it be made with something better like some willwood single or double pot calipers.? as they are pretty cheap and far better brakes then sourcing old ones.

Why does a Jimny need that much braking? I assume you mean something like this:

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Caliper ... %20P-Brake



Making bracketry for a premium aftermarket calliper might be justified in a track/performance car application, but almost any calliper used in the rear of a sierra/jimny is already coming from a larger, heavier and more powerful vehicle. (like a skyline/pintara/galant.

Calipers aren't expensive or difficult to rebuild, and pads are cheap/readily available as they are for an Australian delivered car.

Using an aftermarket performance rear calliper offers no advantage in my opinion, and is only going to make setting up rear bias even harder.

In fact, many park-brake rear callipers from aftermarket suppliers are really only tarted up OEM spec callipers, as the rear brakes do so little work compared to the fronts.

Personally, I'd run a transfer park brake and use callipers with no park brake provision for simplicity - the less junk down at the axle the better in my opinion. This is what I do with the floaters I make.

Just my 2c.

Steve.

[Bugsta]

When you put larger callipers on the back you are messing with Fron to rear balnce. You do indeed increase braking capacity, but that can lead to the rear locking up. And his of course can be dangerous.

Unless I'm told otherwise, I reckon a transfer handbrake means a shorter tail shaft? And therefore perhaps not so simple, unless there is another shaft that is bolt on??

[Gwagensteve]

The driveshaft would only be shorter by the thickness of the rotor, so, in the case of the spidertrax kit, IIRC that's .25" - 6.35mm. I don't imagine driveshaft mods would be required.

Steve

[Blakey]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Blakey wrote:

cant it be made with something better like some willwood single or double pot calipers.? as they are pretty cheap and far better brakes then sourcing old ones.

Why does a Jimny need that much braking? I assume you mean something like this:

http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Caliper ... %20P-Brake



Making bracketry for a premium aftermarket calliper might be justified in a track/performance car application, but almost any calliper used in the rear of a sierra/jimny is already coming from a larger, heavier and more powerful vehicle. (like a skyline/pintara/galant.

Calipers aren't expensive or difficult to rebuild, and pads are cheap/readily available as they are for an Australian delivered car.

Using an aftermarket performance rear calliper offers no advantage in my opinion, and is only going to make setting up rear bias even harder.

In fact, many park-brake rear callipers from aftermarket suppliers are really only tarted up OEM spec callipers, as the rear brakes do so little work compared to the fronts.

Personally, I'd run a transfer park brake and use callipers with no park brake provision for simplicity - the less junk down at the axle the better in my opinion. This is what I do with the floaters I make.

Just my 2c.

Steve.

well what I'm getting at is if your doing this you will obviously have larger tyres. cause if you didn't why bother. so you have a lot more spinning weight, so more potential energy you need to stop would it not to get its braking performance back to the same if not better then stock you will need larger/better performing brakes.
but as you had said i would rather a transfer mounted park brake.

and from what iv heard most people that upgrade the rear drums to disks get rear lock up first anyway. why not upgrade the front also. for a couple hundred that's cheap for better braking then what you would get from an old set that you will spend money on buying and rebuilding.

To me new stuff if far easier to use as there is no more time fixing or cleaning or rebuilding in this case and either way you still have to make a bracket to fit it.
i would think even for who ever is putting this kit together it would be better on a business side to use newer stuff as its less time wasted on putting parts together.

[Gwagensteve]

Those are all true and relevant points Blakey, but dropping $500+ on new aftermarket calipers, when Sierra front calipers are reliable, cheap, plentiful and already have more braking capacity than needed, is a hard barrow to push.

That's quite apart from telling a prospective floater kit buyer that they have to upgrade the front brakes and callipers because the kit is designed to work with a wilwood rear calliper. It's making those two rear axleshafts look pretty expensive, don't you think?

I understand the desire to have the best possible braking in your car. However, most people are happy with the performance of the LWB vitara front rotors and callipers, even with quite large tyres, and it's clear that sierra front callipers already provide more than enough rear brake force.

Even my heavy, automatic, 35" tyred sierra has pretty good brakes (and excessive rearwards bias - it will lock rear wheels on dry pavement) with a forester GT master cylinder, LWB Vitara front callipers and sierra front callipers on the rear. It has high pedal effort, but that's only because it's unboosted. With a booster, pedal effort would be fine. I can't really see the point behind expensive aftermarket callipers, even mores if they demand expensive aftermarket pads and or rotor swaps.

Steve.


PS I think there might be a case that upgrading the front brakes beyond, say, LWB vitara callipers might result in the feeling a little over-braked. I think very careful M/C choice would be required to ensure that the pedal wasn't so light that it was hard to modulate brake pressure, especially on wet surfaces or off road. Just something to consider. After all, we're still talking about a light car with poor tyre traction.

[Jazzor]

Bugsta wrote:

Joe. I am very keen

What I have summized I need is this...
- FFA kit from Joeblow
- Disc brake kit, lines and calliper from BenT
- Vitara Hubs and flanges
- New bearings as required
edit: - Brake pads as required
Have I got that right?

I would like to know though, does using the Vit hubs make the track the same as original?

The BenT sierra & vitara kit requires these, so a Jimny kit should be no different:
Mitsubishi calipers and brake hoses - so you also need the brake pads to fit
Suzuki brake discs
Brake fluid.
Silicone sealer / gasket maker


I had a hard time finding Galant calipers, so 10 people trying to find them at once should be great haha . And rear disc is amazing for pedal feel and stopping power. People talking about getting upgraded rear calipers should just try these heavier cars calipers first, you might be surprised. And if you want to upgrade calipers later do it to the front where most of the braking comes from.

[Bugsta]

'Suzuki brake discs' is a little generic. I would think if I use Vitara hubs, I would need Vitare discs. True or false Joe?

[Blakey]

Jazzor wrote:

Bugsta wrote:

Joe. I am very keen

What I have summized I need is this...
- FFA kit from Joeblow
- Disc brake kit, lines and calliper from BenT
- Vitara Hubs and flanges
- New bearings as required
edit: - Brake pads as required
Have I got that right?

I would like to know though, does using the Vit hubs make the track the same as original?

The BenT sierra & vitara kit requires these, so a Jimny kit should be no different:
Mitsubishi calipers and brake hoses - so you also need the brake pads to fit
Suzuki brake discs
Brake fluid.
Silicone sealer / gasket maker


I had a hard time finding Galant calipers, so 10 people trying to find them at once should be great haha . And rear disc is amazing for pedal feel and stopping power. People talking about getting upgraded rear calipers should just try these heavier cars calipers first, you might be surprised. And if you want to upgrade calipers later do it to the front where most of the braking comes from.

another good reason why i suggested new calipers. they have calipers to fit stock jimny sized rotors as well as the thicker vented ones.

[Bugsta]

A question I think needs to be asked... we have been talking about many different calipers. Are they all a standard bolt pattern? Seems strange that they would be. I mean, very little else is cross manufacturer compatible.

[Blakey]

Bugsta wrote:

A question I think needs to be asked... we have been talking about many different calipers. Are they all a standard bolt pattern? Seems strange that they would be. I mean, very little else is cross manufacturer compatible.

no pretty much every vehicle has different lug spacing for calipers they pretty much always need new brackets but you need them on the rear anyway as you don't have calipers on the rear as it is right now.

[sideways]

Bugsta wrote:

A question I think needs to be asked... we have been talking about many different calipers. Are they all a standard bolt pattern? Seems strange that they would be. I mean, very little else is cross manufacturer compatible.

Given most are only held on with 2 bolts it's not uncommon to find many other calipers with the same bolt pattern but it's only through chance, there's no standard. There is of course other variables too. Eg I know of about 4 cars(completely unrelated ones, like commodores and Volvos) with calipers that will bolt onto my 505 but 3 of them require vented disc rotors from a 604 because they're meant for a thicker disc. Some also require line changes ect

But yeah, Galant calipers way to hard to find. Even Pintaras are pretty rare these days.

[303zuke]

Blakey wrote:

Jazzor wrote:

I had a hard time finding Galant calipers

another good reason why i suggested new calipers. they have calipers to fit stock jimny sized rotors as well as the thicker vented ones.

And the reason why I suggested Pintara/Skyline. The Galant calipers are reasonably common in NZ, while in Aus the Nissan calipers are very common. On E-bay at the moment, you have a choice of 7 different brands of pads available ranging from $12 to $110 a set, and I'm sure most Repco/SCA/Autopro etc would have them on the shelves if you need them. I don't think the same could be said for Wilwood pads.

[Blakey]

303zuke wrote:

Blakey wrote:

Jazzor wrote:

I had a hard time finding Galant calipers

another good reason why i suggested new calipers. they have calipers to fit stock jimny sized rotors as well as the thicker vented ones.

And the reason why I suggested Pintara/Skyline. The Galant calipers are reasonably common in NZ, while in Aus the Nissan calipers are very common. On E-bay at the moment, you have a choice of 7 different brands of pads available ranging from $12 to $110 a set, and I'm sure most Repco/SCA/Autopro etc would have them on the shelves if you need them. I don't think the same could be said for Wilwood pads.

cheapest from Wilwood were $25ish a set (4pads).

There could be generic pads made for them as well you never know.

[joeblow]

303zuke wrote:

joeblow wrote:

Ok guys. If the Jimny owners who want full floaters are serious than I have some good news.

I have been in contact with BenT and my idea is as follows.

I will make the axles and mounting plates all based around one of his great Galant rear disc systems.

What do you think?

I'd be interested if you could do it using the Pintara calipers just for pad compatibility, as I have these already on my Sierra using your kit. Could the plates be cut with Pintara spacing as an option? Ben's plumbing should stay the same, but the handbrake cable ends may differ.

And of course, what is the expected approx price???

I'd have to compare the calipers but this could be an option.

[joeblow]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Personally, I'd run a transfer park brake and use callipers with no park brake provision for simplicity - the less junk down at the axle the better in my opinion. This is what I do with the floaters I make.

Just my 2c.

Steve.

I'll leave that to the Sierras. I'm trying to think of the bigger picture. So what to Vit owners do in your case?

[Gwagensteve]

I don't care for vitaras, and if I did, I'd sort a transfer park brake.

Steve.

[joeblow]

Gwagensteve wrote:

and it's clear that sierra front callipers already provide more than enough rear brake force. Steve.

And a dangerous amount they provide. I think by stating master cylinder upgrades etc this all getting a bit out of hand. Having a decent rear caliper, such as Pintara or Galant, over a silly choice such as a Sierra fronts, will require no upgrading of the front and no upgrading of the MC.

This kit is designed to be affordable, reliable and well biased for a Suzuki. Do not confuse affordable with cheapest way out.

[joeblow]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I don't care for vitaras, and if I did, I'd sort a transfer park brake.

Steve.

Fell free to bugger out of this thread then, start a new one and show us how you did it.

[Gwagensteve]

I didn't think this thread was about vitaras. Seeing as many Jimny's are already running sierra transfer cases, it's not difficult to run a transfer mounted handbrake and have one less thing to sort out for a floater.

Steve.

[joeblow]

joeblow wrote:

This idea will also transfer to the Vitara stuff.

What do you think?

Asshat.

(Sorry, I'm in a mood)

[DarkHorse]

I found a set of Galant calipers at the first wrecker in brisbane that I called.
Sierra discs easy off the shelf at Ripco, as were pads.

The kit exists and works well, makes sense to utilise it. If people want more braking than the above offers (that plus 2L calipers and discs up front lock my 32" tyres pretty comfortably if I stomp on the pedal) then they can deal with the nightmare of caliper bolt patterns, disc offsets, handbrake provisions etc.

Sorry for the hairdressing hijack.

[31zook]

I want hand brakes on my rear axle. I have a disconnect unit on my tcase...

[jdk81]

Stick with calipers that suit, if you don't wish to use the handbrake aspect of those calipers and have other means to do so, its your choice.

I may be wrong, but this is my understanding of the proposed kit.
It would appear joe will be making new axles, and new plates. Whilst Bent will provide his kit minus the plates (as extra holes and slight mods would need to be done). Plate dimensions will be similar to his sierra full floating kit, with different caliper mounting holes.

From my understanding the vitara spindles are capable of running a stronger bearing, which I suspect is why joe prefers this setup.
Because of the locknut arrangement, is why it can fit wider bearings.

Im not sure if sierra or vit spindles have much difference in terms of mounting face offset, I have some in my workshop, I will measure soon.
I dont know the dist from mounting face from axle (where drum backing plate bolts to) to the mounting face of the drum.
If this is obtained, I can measure the vit spindle with sierra rotor.
Im guessing Joes plate will be 8mm, and if someone can provide the jimny info we will know the track change.
From the other thread, I think bent and joe still needed the proper dimensions from rear axle shaft.

[zukenutter]

This is starting to look like the AZ Tshirt design thread

[Bugsta]

jdk81, I'm on that. My axles are at a mates place ready for pressing on the new bearings. Was waiting to see if I could do the FFA soon but it will be a few weeks after coms with joe. I may get over there to do it today.

[jdk81]

Spindle mounting face to wheel mounting face inc sierra solid rotor
Sierra 75.5 (68.5 without rotor)
Vitara 61.5 (54.5 without rotor)
(sierra rotor 7mm at mouting face)

The vit offering a more compact setup is another reason I suspect joe favours this design.
Being shorter, it generates less load on the mounting bolts.