[driftdaddy]

Hi Guys,
First up, I should tell you that I am probably the noobest of the noobs here, and I really have no idea about 4WDing. what I can tell you is that I picked up an 85 tin top Sierra with 117k on the clock, with perfect interior, no rust, and drives greaat, for a price that would make everyone cry. All I have been using her for is towing the jetski down to the boat ramp and back, until the weekend just gone, when my girl and I went up to check out Bribie Island.
Now we went along the beach, and she decided that she would like to check out the camp sites, which are obviously in the soft sand. So, I put it into low for her, and we trundled off toward the soft sand.
The thing that I'm not sure about, is that when we started bogging down, I looked out the window, and noticed that the front wheel was spinning while the back just seemed to be moving. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that was just because of open diffs, not having lockers, and that's just normal?

By the way, tyres are new 235/75/15 all terrain, cant remember the brand at the moment, and tyres were down at 18 psi.

I just dont want to hurt her, cause I can see me wanting to use it moore over sumer for some beach and mabe some tracks. Hopefully someone can show me the ropes a little.

P.S. I'm not a complete car idiot, I've got my fair share of cool rides, just never done the 4WD stuff before. So I have a very good 2WD drive understanding, but could use your collective knowledge for first mods and so forth.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve

[swifty_ano]

You are correct that it was because of unlocked diffs. The power chooses the path of least resistance. So the wheel with the least resistance, in this case, least traction will get the power.

A trap for young players is "Make sure your guage is accurate". I have known many people to buy cheap guages or own faulty guages that read the wrong psi. 18psi may still be 24psi etc.
Seeing as Zooks are so light, 18psi is still a bit high in soft sand.......if it were me, 13psi would be realistic (depends on car weight, tire stiffness etc)
A big key to soft sand driving is momentuem. If you stop, theres a high chance that you may not be able to go again.

Just my input, may or may not be incorrect.

[driftdaddy]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I was thinking that was the case.
Is is worth my while to try her out on a couple of trails in her current state (stocko) just to see if I get a liking for it, or am I going to break stuff? Obviously I would only be easing into it at first, I just dont really want to bust anything too early on!

[swifty_ano]

That is the best thing you can do mate. Take her out and learn to drive her. Once you learn her capabilities, you can then make a decision on what you think she needs.
I.E if your chassis scrapes all the time. Then its obvious she needs a lift and/or tires.

But, if you take her out and you are having a blast and completely satisfied with her capabilities....then your laughing.
You will be pleasently suprised how capable these cars are stock standard. Everyone always is. They judge a book by their cover and buy into all this "Cruisers are the only way to go" rubbish.

The only way you will break things is if you go birko straight up. The key to not breaking things (which I haven't mastered yet) is to go slow and steady. A heavy right foot will get you into situations which you don't want to be in.

[pezz]

get out there and have fun in it,
some of my best wheeling memories are in stock rigs

just make sure you go with someone else and have some recovery gear and so on

[BlueSuzy]

Best thing is to get out with more zooks, They will know how to drive them then you can judge how hard you want to drive yours

They can be driven pretty hard stock, so don't be scared.

20psi is for onroad. I used to run 10-12psi on sand and other offroad to be safe, Many people run lower.


Bye

[driftdaddy]

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it. I'm all over cars that only see the road, but this off road thing is completely new to me. I've had a quick look on ebay, and it seems like about $130 bucks will get a recovery kit. Does that seem about right?
I'd love to get together with some other zook owners soon for a bit of a drive, so if you're on the Gold Coast, let me know, and hopefully we can organise something.

BTW, I think the tyres I put on it were a Nexen AT, 235/75/15. Does anyone have an opinion on them, being good bad or indefferent? I wont be offended if they're crap.

[driftdaddy]

Not sure if this will work, but I've tried to attach a pic of what she looks like currently to possible aid any advice.

[GeckoXL7]

Good thing to do is make sure front hub locks are working, jack the front wheels of the ground, hand brake on, Transmissions in neutral, transfer in 4H/Neutral lock front wheels and turn by hand and see if the drive shafts move. If in 4H driveshaft may not turn that much due to rear wheels being on the ground, but it just makes sure that they are actually working even if move a couple of mm.

Also use 4H for sand driving, use 4L if get badly bogged to rock back and forth to compact sand and creep out.

Rule of thumb as said momentum is the key if feeling like your getting bogged down slightly give it a bit more gas never change gears as often the time between gears will bring you down to such a slow speed you will dig down and become bogged. Usually i go through thick stuff in 2nd gear 4H doing around 30-40KPH keeping the revs in the sweet spot power band.

as mentioned also its good to go out with other suzuki's to see first hand how they go off road so you can see where there limits are and better choose the right path.

And a digital tyre pressure gauge is usually best, have had the older style ones esp on my double thumper pump that is 10psi off!

I was also told not to go bellow 15PSI on all terains as can damage the side wall, he said shouldn't have to go bellow 18psi, but found most thick stuff was much easier at around 16psi and manageable at around 22psi.

Get ya self some sand tracks if going out with just your missus in case get bogged and always carry a spade.

[Teracis]

If you're on the Goldie, hit up the gold coast wheeling thread in the trips section!

[BlueSuzy]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

I was also told not to go bellow 15PSI on all terains as can damage the side wall, he said shouldn't have to go bellow 18psi, but found most thick stuff was much easier at around 16psi and manageable at around 22psi.

Your in an xl7 which is way heavier than a sierra. 20psi is the road pressures on sierra's, so 18, its still road pressure..

[Jazzor]

It depends whats in the recovery kit. You at least want a snatch strap and some shackles, as you will be attaching it to the front factory tie down point or the piece the towball bolts into on the rear at the moment. As someone else mentioned a shovel and maxi-trax/boards would be a good idea on the beach too.

Adding better recovery points to the chassis at some point in the future if you feel the need is a good idea.

No-one is going to care a lot about sierra AT tires, they are all ok .

Nice pic!

[GeckoXL7]

What are Sierras like at say 8psi? I know my pressures are a bad example as the xl-7 weighs prob twice as much

I thought it was safe to let it down to the point where the side wall is just of the sand usually around half of the rated road pressure.

[driftdaddy]

Thanks Jazzor. At the risk of creating emenies, I reckon she's a great little rig for well under a grand.

[BlueSuzy]

driftdaddy wrote:

Thanks Jazzor. At the risk of creating emenies, I reckon she's a great little rig for well under a grand.

you bastard!

No enemys here, just trolls and nooBs



Every tyre reacts different to pressures. Depending on sidewall ply/make

[driftdaddy]

BlueSuzy, I just couldnt knock it back for that. Tinted windows, new exhaust, towbar, brakes just done, perfect interior, 117k on her, no rust. She'd have to be worth a lot ore than I paid for her, and she's already paid herself off in my books anyway.

I ended up letting them down to 14 psi at one point, and on very soft sand it seemed to be quite ok. I think I was more nervous about my first time on soft sand. It was loads of fu though.

[BlueSuzy]

Watch the temp on sand too.

My old the temp used to rise if i was at the wrong pressures. You will feel it struggling.

You will get to know her, just takes abit of time

Some are bitches and will fuck you over, some are quite pleasant

[driftdaddy]

I have just replaced te original radiator that had more holes than cooling fins, and while I was on the sand it never rose.
Hopefully from the experince I have had with her so far, she's going to be the latter. No compaints so far.

[ninjamoses]

Sounds like a bloody nice pickup mate for less than $1k.

As the others have said, tyre pressure is the biggest thing on soft sand. On my old Vit when offroad I'd start at 11psi and go south from there if needed.

GeckoXL7 wrote:

Also use 4H for sand driving, use 4L if get badly bogged to rock back and forth to compact sand and creep out.

Has been a quite a while since I've driven a zook on std sized tyres, but I'd really only recommend hi range for fast trail work (hard packed dirt, gravel roads etc). Smaller zook motors live for revs, so low range will give you the power/revs at lower speeds which is right where you need it. Using low range for beach work will also save your clutch from a fiery miserable death.

[britvit]

I had that size Nexen tyres on a SWB Vitara and ran them at 10 psi in soft sand and never had a problem with them.

[whincup]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

What are Sierras like at say 8psi? I know my pressures are a bad example as the xl-7 weighs prob twice as much

I thought it was safe to let it down to the point where the side wall is just of the sand usually around half of the rated road pressure.

depends on a few things, such as tyre brand, size... but my last outing i ran 8psi in my 31" KM2's, i was driving much stupider than i should have with low pressures (sharp cornering at speed, etc) and no dramas. ive usually only ever gone as low as 12, but this time that just wasnt enough.

this is all on sand.

[TZAR]

BlueSuzy wrote:

driftdaddy wrote:

Thanks Jazzor. At the risk of creating emenies, I reckon she's a great little rig for well under a grand.

you bastard!

No enemys here, just trolls and nooBs



Every tyre reacts different to pressures. Depending on sidewall ply/make

hi

You cant even spell n00b can ya

Bye

[shakes]

Jazzor wrote:

It depends whats in the recovery kit. You at least want a snatch strap and some shackles, as you will be attaching it to the front factory tie down point or the piece the towball bolts into on the rear at the moment. As someone else mentioned a shovel and maxi-trax/boards would be a good idea on the beach too.

Adding better recovery points to the chassis at some point in the future if you feel the need is a good idea.

No-one is going to care a lot about sierra AT tires, they are all ok .

Nice pic!

Shackles and snatch straps shouldn't really be used in the same sentence. Im on my phone so cbf seatching. There is a couple of threads here on safe recovery. If someone can find em for me that would be ace.

[Gwagensteve]

BlueSuzy wrote:

Best thing is to get out with more zooks,

^So much truth here.

Going 4WDing by yourself is very unsafe, and going out with big car owners is frustrating for a few reasons.

Firstly, very little of the advice they can give you is of any use. Secondly, you'll get bored with the "goes alright for a little car" nonsense. quickly, you'll be outdriving all but the biggest/hardest driven big cars , so it will get boring because you'll be over watching them winch/snatch out of everything,

Going out with other suzukis allows you to learn why and how to drive and/or modify your car.

We occasionally have a big car tag along on our club trips. It brings back into focus how capable suzukis are.

I don't know if there is a local suzuki club, but learning in a club environment is pretty valuable. They'll always have some rules which are primarily about making sure a trip runs effectively and safely.

Steve.

[Reubs]

Hi Driftdaddy,

Given your first trip was to Bribie Island, maybe check out the North Brisbane Suzuki 4x4 Club for some in-person type advice.

http://www.nbs4x4club.com/forum

Reubs.

Gwagensteve wrote:

BlueSuzy wrote:

Best thing is to get out with more zooks,

^So much truth here.

I don't know if there is a local suzuki club, but learning in a club environment is pretty valuable. They'll always have some rules which are primarily about making sure a trip runs effectively and safely.
.

[fordem]

shakes wrote:

Shackles and snatch straps shouldn't really be used in the same sentence. Im on my phone so cbf seatching. There is a couple of threads here on safe recovery. If someone can find em for me that would be ace.

OK - I'm aware of the dangers involved in a snatch - but if you're not using a shackle, how do you attach the snatch strap?

[BlueSuzy]

fordem wrote:

shakes wrote:

Shackles and snatch straps shouldn't really be used in the same sentence. Im on my phone so cbf seatching. There is a couple of threads here on safe recovery. If someone can find em for me that would be ace.

OK - I'm aware of the dangers involved in a snatch - but if you're not using a shackle, how do you attach the snatch strap?

A snatchackle

TZAR wrote:

hi

You cant even spell n00b can ya

Bye

Sorry darling

Bye

[GeckoXL7]

If ya have a removable tow hitch, you can put the snatch strap in there and put the pin through to hold it in, but would only do this if the tow bar is rated to do so and can handle it.

I still see people put the snatch strap on the tow ball, if that brakes might as have a cannon pointing directly at you.

Snatch shackles and snatch straps for recovering yourself make sure it is rated at least twice your vehicle weight, I have a 5ton 9 meter and 9ton shackles, sometimes there confusing as some rate in pounds and some rate in tons. If ever recover in mud make sure you clean it when get home as they deteriorate quickly if soaked in mud or oil etc.

The rear recovery point in suzukis seem strong have used it to pull out cars belly deep in sand with no issues including a Toyota klugger, front one not quite sure about was snapped of before i got the xl so gather it cant be too strong. only recovery i have at moment is the ball bar but highly not recommended.

Is there any recovery point install pics in the forum? would mean a bit of drilling etc, but looking at some ball bars and how low they would sit compared to the front recovery point the bull bar could cut the strap, prob something to consider if install one with say a ECB ball bar.

[Jackson]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

I have a 5ton 9 meter and 9ton shackles, sometimes there confusing as some rate in pounds and some rate in tons.

Ton is still in pounds, depending if it is a long or short ton it is a minimum 2000 pounds.

A tonne is the metric one, 1000kg.

[zukenutter]

GeckoXL7 your advice for a noob in a Sierra is mostly irrelevant.
A Sierra owner should carry a light rated strap as a heavy strap will be like using a chain, offering no stretch at all and will damage recovery points. Shakes I think this is the same reason shackles have a bag reputation, anyone can go buy a strap and shackles with no idea how to safely use them.

I've never had a strap or a shackle fail.

Tyre pressure is the key to soft sand. If you can't move off easily from stationary in soft sand you have too much pressure. 1.3 Zukes work best in low in soft stuff, no need for clutch slipping and wheel spinning.

All setups are different and you'll need to experiment to find what works best for yours. ATs will perform better than MTs but it's still a matter of finding the correct tyre pressure. I drop to 14psi before hitting the sand and will stay with that as my max pressure until I hit a hard surface again. Some days the sand is super powdery which I'll drop to 12 or even 10. If I'm not floating on the surface I drop further, you shouldn't have to flog it to keep your momentum. Sand hills I just crawl up, high speed runs are totally unnecessary.

We usually have a camper trailer in tow as well which of course usually requires a lower pressure including the trailer.

Be accurate about setting your pressures as 2 psi difference will often cause the the higher pressure tyre to spin and dig.

Lastly, when you run low pressures don't make sudden turns or high speed turns.