[tonyevans]

shep wrote:

My bet is the timing is 180 out.

Why would the timing have changed 180 degrees because the battery went flat?

[christover1]

shep wrote:

My bet is the timing is 180 out.

I'm with you. Done it myself more than once.

[shep]

tonyevans wrote:

shep wrote:

My bet is the timing is 180 out.

Why would the timing have changed 180 degrees because the battery went flat?

But you replaced a faulty dizzy and set it up on #1

[ball]

shep wrote:

But you replaced a faulty dizzy and set it up on #1

x2

[tonyevans]

It was only a guess that the dissy was faulty and I set it up the same as the one I took out buy not moving the motor BUT when it cools down I intend to remove the rocker cover and make sure it is all correct.

I would have thought that if it was out by any amount I would still get backfiring or something?

[swifty_ano]

Have you triple checked the firing order?
This is not supposed to be an insult to your intelligence. I recall a friend of mine getting his mixed up and it took an hour of checking and getting normal results.......Then he tells me he changed the leads :/
That didn't back fire or cough at all

[tonyevans]

OK Guy's - I have decided to give this thing away for a few days as it is hot here at the moment and will not be cooling down till the weekend I am also waiting for Rinomans cable adapter to arrive and on top of all that the mob I got the dissey from now say it maybe the wrong one and I can not get my money back as it now has marks on it from being installed so it will take a while to sort that out.

In the meantime I am now looking for a distributor for this thing and have pictures posted in the wanted section here -
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37400

[JrZook]

Mr Tony may I ask what the mechanics rationale was in regards to suspecting the dizzy? Sensor issues or arcing out internally?

[tonyevans]

JrZook wrote:

Mr Tony may I ask what the mechanics rationale was in regards to suspecting the dizzy? Sensor issues or arcing out internally?

It was the coils inside that he said play up - It was a follow on from the fact that I had already replaced the Leads, Coil and igniter and the injectors were working. He said it was common for them to play up??

[jono165]

I know on some cars when the dizzy shits itself some people replace the ignitor with an external one and the coil with an external one. Its quite common on vehicles like a mazda 323 with the KF/KL V6 engines as a new dizzy is ~$500.

Example:
http://www.club323f.com/forum/viewtopic ... 19&t=46035

You might be able to cobble something together with some parts and should work out cheaper than a new dizzy if its possible on the G16B ones.

[JrZook]

This vitara already runs an external coil/ignitior and IIRC Tony has already replaced them.

I think the 3 pin dizzy is hall effect and it could be possible for them to play up. If its a VR dizzy (magnetized coil) type you who be the first person I have ever heard for one to die. Possibly the most robust sensor ever made!

So just to revise, you replaced the dizzy and now have a healthy spark? Can you open up your old one and post a pic up for interest sake? Cheers

[tonyevans]

JrZook wrote:

This vitara already runs an external coil/ignitior and IIRC Tony has already replaced them.

I think the 3 pin dizzy is hall effect and it could be possible for them to play up. If its a VR dizzy (magnetized coil) type you who be the first person I have ever heard for one to die. Possibly the most robust sensor ever made!

So just to revise, you replaced the dizzy and now have a healthy spark? Can you open up your old one and post a pic up for interest sake? Cheers

Correct JrZook - I think in the morning I am going to open both because they may not be different inside. The spark is a little better but still not what I would call good.

I will post images of the whole set-up in the morning.

[JrZook]

Cool mate. If you haven't already try checking that spark from the pigtail of the coil it's self to eliminate any other lead/rotor/dizzy issues. Such an odd issue you have! I assume you have checked the connections to the battery terminals for any dodgy wiring or signs of corrosion etc.

[tonyevans]

I have now received a different (Correct one - second-hand) distributor * Huge thank you to Wazz * and installed it.

The spark at the pig tale is now over 3cm long (I dropped the lead at that point )

I have spark at the plugs when held to ground at cranking speed.

Tried the leads as I think is right and at 180 deg as suggested above - Still nothing. (The book says 1-3-4-2 is the firing order which I assume is correct)

I have fuel as I can see the vapour blow out the plug holes in the sunlight when I turn the engine over without plugs.

I have brought a lead and adapter from RhinoPower but have found out it does not work on my Laptop as I don't have a Com port setting to use - Most new Laptops don't.

I now believe that "Shepping" it is the only way out which I would do but it is in my driveway and I can not drive to a safe place first

[want33s]

G16 timing is a weird one....
Find TDC on No1 compression stroke and then turn engine one full rev (360*) drop dissy in pointing at No1 lead and it should go.

[atari4x4]

^^^ this

[tonyevans]

want33s wrote:

G16 timing is a weird one....
Find TDC on No1 compression stroke and then turn engine one full rev (360*) drop dissy in pointing at No1 lead and it should go.

Hi Wants, I am not doubting what you say - I am WAY past that now - but can you tell me why it is like that? Is it a delay in the ECU or something?

And Atari

[want33s]

No idea why Suzuki did it like that Tony.... I do remember taking a while to work it out though when I built my mega $$$ G16B... Bloody cracked heads...

[shep]

Like many have said in this thread. Timing is set up at tdc on #4.

[tonyevans]

I don't want to start an argument but the manual says its set up on cylinder one -

[shep]

What manual do you have?

[tonyevans]

shep wrote:

What manual do you have?

The Suzuki workshop manual

[shep]

Just checked mine and it is the same. The important bit is the rockers, did you check them? If installed according to the fsm the rotor will be at #4.

Don't look at the cam gear markings when setting up ignition timeing.

Just trust us cos most people get caught by this.

[tonyevans]

It would not be the first thing I have found wrong in there

So what you are saying is set up as per the manual and then use the connection on the dissy cap that the rotor is pointing at as cylinder number 4. Is that correct?

I will give it a go in the morning starting from scratch - Right now I am baking my daily bread

[shep]

There is nothing wrong with the fsm it's just that people use the markings on the cam pulley to set up the ignition.

[tonyevans]

The manual says to get number 1 to the top of the firing stroke (Both valves closed) and then insert the distributor in the position shown but neglect to tell you that the rotor is in the number 4 position

I do not understand why you would send the spark to Number 4 on the top of the exhaust stroke and can only assume that it is a delay thing in the ECU or something. As you can see I am totally lost in my logic

[royce]

you are both talking about different things

IF you are on number one, IE piston at TDC, both valves closed (rockers both loose) then you are on number one and can fit the dissy so the rotor points at the number one spot

if you are doing it soley on cam timing marks, IE the mark on the cam gear facing up and lined up with its mark behind it, you are on firing stroke for number four

[tonyevans]

Hi Royce - If I do it as the manual page above says which lead/cylinder is the rotor pointing at?

It seems to me that it must be number one???????????????????????????/

[losfer]

If you set it up by the manual then its the firing stroke of number 4. If you turn the crank one rotation and the cam timing mark is facing down then its the firing stroke of number 1.

[tonyevans]

If it is number 4 then it is firing just as the intake valve is opening?