[niran]

Hey everyone,

I recently did the g16a conversion into my 1985 suzuki sierra.. All off it went smoothly however once I started the car and tried to use the clutch, it seemed like the clutch plate wasn't disengaging correctly. Also the external arm which connects and pushes the spigot bearing needed to come a good 1cm or so before it even would work. Due to this my gears didn't go in smoothly and the reverse gear would crunch.

Seeing as something was wrong we pulled the gearbox out from the back, once we measured the distance from the fly to the clutch pressure plate fingers and then from the gearbox bell housing (including the conversion adapter plate), there was a 10mm gap between the spigot bearing and the front of the pressure plate.

The fly wheel from the vitara (which came with the g16a) is much thicker (roughly 10mm), however as many have mentioned you have to use the g13 fly, clutch and box if you want to keep the transfer case and layout the same.. So I did some searching and googling however no one else seems to have this issue..

has any one ever come across this, is there something I can do or have not done which is causing this problem?

more info (what was used)
16a carby motor, ben-t conversion kit, g13(sierra) gearbox, g13 fly, g13 clutch.

Thanks, Niran

[303zuke]

You didn't use BOTH the adapter plate and the original spacer plate, did you?

BTW the Spigot Bearing is the little bugger in the recess in the end of the crankshaft, the bearing that the release arm pushes onto the pressure plate is called either the Throwout Bearing, Release Bearing, or Thrust Bearing (depending on who you talk to!)

[niran]

303zuke wrote:

You didn't use BOTH the adapter plate and the original spacer plate, did you?

BTW the Spigot Bearing is the little bugger in the recess in the end of the crankshaft, the bearing that the release arm pushes onto the pressure plate is called either the Throwout Bearing, Release Bearing, or Thrust Bearing (depending on who you talk to!)

Woops, sorry man.. Don't know why I kept saying spigot bearing haha.. but yeah as you mentioned the thrust bearing. Nope didn't use both the adapter plate and original spacer either..

I cant understand how there is such a gap..there wasn't any variants in fly wheels was there?

[Scrawny]

Sierras run two different flywheels, one stepped and one flat.

I admit I skim read a little but can you adjust the gap by removing and refitting the lever on the side of the box?

[niran]

Scrawn wrote:

Sierras run two different flywheels, one stepped and one flat.

I admit I skim read a little but can you adjust the gap by removing and refitting the lever on the side of the box?

Really? I might have to do some searching for that then.. Well we did do that originally to see if we could get more out of the clutch cable too.. However even when that is done, the gap causes the flywheel and clutch disc to not separate completely.. so you can slowly hear the gearbox whining down but when I put it into reverse it crunches and then goes in.

at the moment, with the 10mm gap the lever goes from rest position to nearly max before it even hits the pressure plate fingers.. however when we removed the clutch assembly and just put it onto the gearbox spline, then it would go from rest to making contact with the clutch fingers in about 1-2mm of movement in the lever..

[royce]

So what you are saying is the throwout bearing is too far away from the pressure plate fingers?

Just adjust it up, if you didn't remove the lever from the box before its probably still in the right spot, pull the cable off and pull the lever forward till the throwout touches the pressure plate, the lever should be pretty close to vertical.

Now just slip the cable in and do it up till there is about 3mm free play betwen the throwout touching the pressure plate and how far back it will spring before the cable touches it

[niran]

royce wrote:

So what you are saying is the throwout bearing is too far away from the pressure plate fingers?

Just adjust it up, if you didn't remove the lever from the box before its probably still in the right spot, pull the cable off and pull the lever forward till the throwout touches the pressure plate, the lever should be pretty close to vertical.

Now just slip the cable in and do it up till there is about 3mm free play betwen the throwout touching the pressure plate and how far back it will spring before the cable touches it

Yep, That is what I'm exactly trying to say haha.. I did try this but the problem which arises is that the spring on the cable is then completely contracted (which isn't a problem as I can remove the spring or shorten it). But the bigger problem is then the clutch pedal release point is all the way at the top and also it still (when pedal is fully compressed) does not release the clutch completely thus gears won't go in smoothly..

[niran]

Alright, I took some photos to confirm that this is correct or not..

So when the lever is in rest position the trust bearing is all the way back



Now if the 10mm is deducted then the fingers should be 1-2mm from the trust washer at rest position.

If I bring the lever so its straight, then the trust bearing sits just on the end



This is where my thrust bearing and pressure plate fingers start to meet at the moment..

Is that normal, or is it actually meant to meet closer to the rest position?

[royce]

If the release point is high but it wont go into gear something else is wrong

can you select all gears without the engine running?

its possible (but unlikely) you can pus the pressure plate too far and it will catch, try backing the cable off a bit

those photos look fine

[Scrawny]

If the thrust bearing is only just contacting the pressure plate fingers at the very end of the snout (last pic), that doesn't look right to me. There's no room left for any more travel

[niran]

Hey guys,

Ok, I found out one problem.. that being it was missing the pilot bearing (correct me if that's the wrong name for it, but the one which sits inside the flywheel and the tip of the gearbox spline goes into). I got a bearing put in and bolted it back up, it's not as bad, however reverse still crunches a little bit.

Royce - Yes, gears go in fine without the engine running.. It sounds like (when I press the clutch pedal in) the clutch isn't completely disengaging and thus the gearbox is still slightly spinning, could over tightening cause that issue? and Mine also has that issue as you mentioned (that the more i tighten the cable, the higher to release point gets)

Scrawn - That's what I thought also, therefore I have to put the thrust bearing all the way to the end, causing the clutch to not completely disengage ?

[303zuke]

niran wrote:

Hey guys,

Ok, I found out one problem.. that being it was missing the pilot bearing (correct me if that's the wrong name for it, but the one which sits inside the flywheel and the tip of the gearbox spline goes into?

I thought we talked about this? That is the Spigot Bearing, although Pilot Bearing is also a term that's used for it.

[jdk81]

niran wrote:

Hey guys,

Ok, I found out one problem.. that being it was missing the spigot bearing (correct me if that's the wrong name for it), but the one which sits inside the flywheel and the tip of the gearbox spline goes into).

303zuke can see into the future!

303zuke wrote:

BTW the Spigot Bearing is the little bugger in the recess in the end of the crankshaft, the bearing that the release arm pushes onto the pressure plate is called either the Throwout Bearing, Release Bearing, or Thrust Bearing (depending on who you talk to!)

Did you use the same throwout bearing, or a new one? And are there two types?

[niran]

303zuke wrote:

niran wrote:

Hey guys,

Ok, I found out one problem.. that being it was missing the pilot bearing (correct me if that's the wrong name for it, but the one which sits inside the flywheel and the tip of the gearbox spline goes into?

I thought we talked about this? That is the Spigot Bearing, although Pilot Bearing is also a term that's used for it.

Sorry but I wrote that at 1am, so I didn't even think off that.

[niran]

jdk81 wrote:

niran wrote:

Hey guys,

Ok, I found out one problem.. that being it was missing the spigot bearing (correct me if that's the wrong name for it), but the one which sits inside the flywheel and the tip of the gearbox spline goes into).

303zuke can see into the future!

303zuke wrote:

BTW the Spigot Bearing is the little bugger in the recess in the end of the crankshaft, the bearing that the release arm pushes onto the pressure plate is called either the Throwout Bearing, Release Bearing, or Thrust Bearing (depending on who you talk to!)

Did you use the same throwout bearing, or a new one? And are there two types?

Hey man, New bearing.. whole new clutch kit and fly wheel.

Is it possible that I got a faulty clutch / pressure plate in the kit? The clutch I bought was a Clutch industries R330N

[niran]

Also just another bit of information.. When the car is just started and everything is still cold, reverse seems to go in easier, however after driving it for 10 or so minutes the gears grind, slowing down the gearbox to a stop and then the gear will enter..

Any idea what could be the cause behind this.. Could a stretched clutch cable cause this? or would that not change anything as I can just tighten it up to compensate for the slack.

[Ace]

Just asking stupid Q's as I need to see things to understand them / Whats the chance theres some sh#t in your clutch cable sleeve causing engagement issues (had this on a bike) / have you checked the fluids in the box. Why not park it up for a few days, have a gd new years and try again when your not so frustrated with it? (All else fails maybe a small spacer between fork and throwout bearing) my 2c

Temp sensative makes me wonder

[niran]

Ace wrote:

Just asking stupid Q's as I need to see things to understand them / Whats the chance theres some sh#t in your clutch cable sleeve causing engagement issues (had this on a bike) / have you checked the fluids in the box. Why not park it up for a few days, have a gd new years and try again when your not so frustrated with it? (All else fails maybe a small spacer between fork and throwout bearing) my 2c

Temp sensative makes me wonder

Hey there,

Hmmm.. It could be something to do with the clutch cable, might just buy one and see.. I mean, I'm pretty sure its the original cable from 1985 haha.. as for the fluids, all new fluid in the gearbox and checked them twice against the castrol books..

I Think that is some good advice, will play around with it once more today, otherwise I'll just have a break, do something different and get back into it.. at least in the mean time, I can do some more reading and fault finding .