[datso]

Was comparing how exxy Ryco g16b filters where and then looked at the Z9 which also has anti-flowback valve, same thread screws on easily, same sealing area and way more capacity and filtration ability not to mention less than halve the price!

So doing oil change and all measures well, went in without issues and better for dry engine start up as it holds more engine oil capacity. This is easier of course as the Suzuki carry van has the oil filter facing down onto the ground, clears everything and runs like a charm.

Anyone else done this? did I miss out from an earlier post too slow to the party?

[sideways]

I don't see how a bigger oil filter is a better thing. It's not going to filter any better. It's just going to flow better, which with the standard oiling system will not make a difference. A bigger filter takes longer to pressurize thus contributing to start up wear.

[missmyljdaze]

If a filter has an anti flow-back valve, the filter (and oil pump) should not drain themselves when the engine is shut down- so why would it take longer to pressurise if it is already full of oil?
I always understood that anti flow back valves in filters were to keep the oil pump primed.

feel free to re-educate me if I am wrong!

stephen

[droverdave]

I can't see any advantage of a biger filter.

What does it need to flow more for?

Z9 is off pretty much every ford falcon. That's why its cheap.

[Scrawny]

I like the OP's idea but maybe the Z418 is a better option. Don't know how the prices compare

[want33s]

datso wrote:

then looked at the Z9 which also has anti-flowback valve

I just searched Ryco, Valvoline, Fram and Echlin sites and can't find anything that says a Z9 has an anti drainback valve.

Can you point me to where you found this info?

[ajsr]

z9 could also use a totally different mircon paper for the filtration.
you may be doing yourself and your motor a major dis- sevice

[mika]

i can confirm the Ryco Z9 has a anti-drain back valve

[Santos]

I have pointed this out in the past. A lot of Z9 have anti-drain back valves. I don't thinkt this is the standard for Z9 but the filter is around long enough that people want the newer features. Holding more Oil shouldn't be a bad thing. Filter would take longer to completely clog. Haven't done it myself as a few year back ebay had heaps of bulk lots of oil filters. Remember it was something like 10 for the price of 3 store bought ones. Still got 8 or so and i change the damn oil every 3000 to 5000 kms.

[Gwagensteve]

[quote="Santos"]Filter would take longer to completely clog{/quote]

When was the last time anyone completely clogged an oil filter?

I'm not buying into the argument over which filter is better, but if your changing the filter at recommended intervals and your engine isn't already stuffed, I can't see the reason for a bigger filter.

Steve.

[Zook_Fan]

Your engine will benefit from running cleaner though. That's if the filter media is the same and only larger in the Z9. The filter doesn't have to be any better than the other one, simply by adding capacity you will have less contaminants per litre in the oil. If over a service interval your engine oil gets contaminated by a certain amount of metals, carbon, fuel, etc. then the larger capacity of oil will contain less of these contaminants per litre and therefore be cleaner when cycling through your engine.

[Santos]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Santos wrote:

Filter would take longer to completely clog

When was the last time anyone completely clogged an oil filter?

I'm not buying into the argument over which filter is better, but if your changing the filter at recommended intervals and your engine isn't already stuffed, I can't see the reason for a bigger filter.

Steve.

Its more a case of maybe you will not get a chance to change it next time. Perharps you live in a rurla or remote area. I agree you should but doesn't hurt to have a buffer. Regardless go with what Zook fan said and if its consistantly cheaper with a flowback valve then why not hey???

[royce]

If they suited Ryco would drop the 3 Suzuki filters and list a Z9 in a flash

The z9 is a bigger body but is there more stuff inside? I doubt it and thats why they are cheap, its an old old old design filter and I doubt they are hot sellers compared to Z386 etc etc

a lot of engines that listed other bigger filters are now listed as Z418, which is the late 1.6 filter, must be something in that I rekcon

[atari4x4]

Z172 is the H series V6 option, interchangable with Z418

[rick1970]

Pending on the filtering media being identical, and that the contaminate loading will actually increase filtering preformance till the point of the element going into bypass, the larger element would in theory give less filtering preformance over its service life, but will filter for a longer period. Bit like air filters really. Its preformance will be at is worst when new, getting better to the point of bypass.

With an engine in good working condition and regularly serviced, it would proberly not be worth deviating from the origional fitment. If the engine was prone to heavly loading the oil with contaminants, there may be a genuine reason (beside cost).

There is good reason that the early changeout of filters, expecially air filters, is not recomended by those that really know what their talking about, and can back it up with facts....

All thing considering, even an expensive filter element is still pretty cheap.

[Santos]

royce wrote:

If they suited Ryco would drop the 3 Suzuki filters and list a Z9 in a flash

The z9 is a bigger body but is there more stuff inside? I doubt it and thats why they are cheap, its an old old old design filter and I doubt they are hot sellers compared to Z386 etc etc

a lot of engines that listed other bigger filters are now listed as Z418, which is the late 1.6 filter, must be something in that I rekcon

Z9 might not be so big in aus but they are huge in the states. There pricing could be an effort to curb grey market imports ???

In a sierra requires a little grinding of the engine mount wing to clearmost Z9's. (dome shape seems to vary) Perharps the move to z418 filter is triggered by its size. slightly smaller filters fit in accesorry cramped spaces, ryco can simplify its production if it list one universal filter rather than 8 dimensionally similar filters.
Its the same economic school of thought that suggest the internal material is of identical micron rating cut to length.

In the end i guess we all are just speculating. I've always been a believer of 'If in personal doubt go with the original manufacturers designated part to err on the side of caution'

[missmyljdaze]

I just emailed RYCO, asking them if there is a difference in the micron grade, and amount of filter media in Z9's and Z418's- and what thier opinion is regarding bigger capacity filters.

If they get back to me I will let you know what they say.

Stephen.

[Santos]

missmyljdaze wrote:

I just emailed RYCO, asking them if there is a difference in the micron grade, and amount of filter media in Z9's and Z418's- and what thier opinion is regarding bigger capacity filters.

If they get back to me I will let you know what they say.

Stephen.

You rock!

[missmyljdaze]

An advantage of larger filters is the greater oil capacity,
One of my (now deceased) LJ's ran a recycled 800cc donk which was almost always being hard worked as a farm hack, or in low range and crawling for hours at a time as a shooting vehicle.
Overheating was a real problem- so it was fitted with an extra filter via an adaptor that screwed under the original oil filter, with the Z9 and a VW oil cooler and associated hoses it gained around another 2 litres of oil, and never overheated again.
When the oil cooler was damaged (by a young steer trying to eat it) I bypassed the cooler and it ran through the heat of summer just with the twin oil filters- with little overheating dramas unless we really flogged the old girl.

A larger filter might not do much compared to what our dodgy system achieved- but if you are doing lots of towing or hot weather driving- extra oil to share the load cant hurt.

Stephen

[droverdave]

I dare say if you compare the standard oil filter, to the z9. The increased oil capacity would be around 200ml.

if you just added 200ml to the sump, its probably not enough to even raise the mark on your dipstick.

[royce]

I doubt a Z9 would hold 200ml

As to the clogging thing, I remember reading some tests in a magazine ages ago (thats probably since been proven to have been written by dodgy morons with no idea) that your average filter started going into bypass a lot sooner than expected, some well before the year long service intervals some cars have now

[atari4x4]

fresh oil & filters are cheap insurance, hence why i dump mine every 5k

[Bruce]

atari4x4 wrote:

fresh oil & filters are cheap insurance, hence why i dump mine every 5k

X2 And use good oil

[datso]

Zook_Fan wrote:

Your engine will benefit from running cleaner though. That's if the filter media is the same and only larger in the Z9. The filter doesn't have to be any better than the other one, simply by adding capacity you will have less contaminants per litre in the oil. If over a service interval your engine oil gets contaminated by a certain amount of metals, carbon, fuel, etc. then the larger capacity of oil will contain less of these contaminants per litre and therefore be cleaner when cycling through your engine.

It should be clear the ford falcon 6 is one big 4ltr more contaminant producing engine way more than a 1.6 G16b and would definitely need more filtering or it would block a filter as small as the suzuki one in no time. The volume at startup is critical especially after dropping all the oil during an oil change you can fill the Z9 almost to the top and you have a large amount of fresh oil to pump into the bearings. The anti-flow back valve to to keep the oil pressurised in the system for next start up as I understand not so much for by passing oil in any way that is contaminated after the filter is blocked thats the bypass valve which also the Z9 has. So Z9 has the anti-drainback valve, bypass valve just larger volume and filtering media for a 4ltr engine and 80-150ml extra capacity isnt going to cause any issues with pressure or start up I would think.

When I take the usual micro size oil filters out of Suzuki, Daihatsu and some other modern engines they are very heavy for their size of filter and doubt they filter better than a Z9 if anything more pressure is required to get the oil through such a clogged small surface area and doing so wont be as effective. What makes me laugh is that the modern engines are factory recommended to go 10,000, 15,000 or more without a service. Great for increased car sales but bad for second hand market that looks at cars with over 120,000kms but are already tired so definitely agree always at 5k change oil and filter for normal road conditions as good insurance.

The cost aspect is nothing to do with quality just that z9 filters are for more common local content while also say a small camry or other small filter also brings in a good premium in profit sales etc. While living in Japan the Z9 equivalent was more expensive there for Landcruisers and Hiluxes that use them.
Now there are people in the 4x4 forums that use them in Patrols 4.2 TB turbo diesels and NA without issues and one person even clarified the TB was designed by Ford engineers for Nissan hence the Z9 fits and others have done oil tests to confirm its efficiency over factory recommended and came out with flying colors extending the oil change intervals for some long kms haulers. Even a Perkins 1.8 EB 4 cylinder diesel uses them similar to London Taxi engines but for marine applications.

[droverdave]

datso wrote:

Zook_Fan wrote:

When I take the usual micro size oil filters out of Suzuki, Daihatsu and some other modern engines they are very heavy for their size of filter and doubt they filter better than a Z9 if anything more pressure is required to get the oil through such a clogged small surface area and doing so wont be as effective. What makes me laugh is that the modern engines are factory recommended to go 10,000, 15,000 or more without a service. Great for increased car sales but bad for second hand market that looks at cars with over 120,000kms but are already tired so definitely agree always at 5k change oil and filter for normal road conditions as good insurance.

Newer car technology, new oil technology, equates to longer service intervals?

5000km oil intervals may be required for 25year old engines that we are playing with, but i think its certainly feasible that service intervals have increased as technology has increased. (not to mention the 5year unlimited warranties that car manufactures offer)

my 2000 subi has done 214,000kms, oil been changed as per log book every 12,500 (im second owner). I changed the oil last week after 12,000 and its still had a yellow tinge to it!

[atari4x4]

datso wrote:

one person even clarified the TB was designed by Ford engineers for Nissan.

i find this very hard to believe, got any proof to back up that statement?

pretty sure the only thing they had in common with ford apart from the "badge engineering/button car plan" in australia (maverick/patrol) was their ability to warp heads like a falcon.

[royce]

datso wrote:

It should be clear the ford falcon 6 is one big 4ltr more contaminant producing engine way more than a 1.6 G16b and would definitely need more filtering or it would block a filter as small as the suzuki one in no time.

What was the original filter service spec on the 200cui? engine these filters were first used on in the 60's in Australia? 6000 miles or 6 months, with a 3000 mile or 3 month intermediate oil change in between, that wasnt for severe service or low km running, that was a proper part of the schedule service

How long were the engines designed to last without repair work? not really that long, how much power did they make to tax the oil? even less.

Ill waste some money, Ill grab a Z9 and a Z172 (the correct filter for a 1.3 Sierra and the largest of the 3 Suzuki filters) and cut em both open to compare levels of media inside, though I doubt we can tell which is the finer medium.

[William20]

Z9 is also the stock filter for pre 05ish 3.0 Toyota diesels

[Zook_Fan]

royce wrote:

datso wrote:

It should be clear the ford falcon 6 is one big 4ltr more contaminant producing engine way more than a 1.6 G16b and would definitely need more filtering or it would block a filter as small as the suzuki one in no time.

What was the original filter service spec on the 200cui? engine these filters were first used on in the 60's in Australia? 6000 miles or 6 months, with a 3000 mile or 3 month intermediate oil change in between, that wasnt for severe service or low km running, that was a proper part of the schedule service

How long were the engines designed to last without repair work? not really that long, how much power did they make to tax the oil? even less.

Ill waste some money, Ill grab a Z9 and a Z172 (the correct filter for a 1.3 Sierra and the largest of the 3 Suzuki filters) and cut em both open to compare levels of media inside, though I doubt we can tell which is the finer medium.

If you're going to waste the money you should fill them up and see what volumetric difference there is while you're at it.

[Ausuki]

i recon if you want to save a few bucks go for it,
as long as you regularly service your vehicle with any decent oil it will be fine,
i used z9 filters on my jeep for 100,000 km and it was healthy would good clear oil when i sold it with 220,000km.
I didnt use synthetics either just a decent mineral oil with regular changes.
its not like we are running F1 engines