[Dcraw]

about to buy a mig welder (cig weld 175i) and i need to do some rust repairs on the zuke will gasless wire work for the panel work and get gas for when im doing roll cage/bullbar?

[mrw82]

Gasless will work fine. Not as nice to work with, but will do the job.

[b1nelly]

Did some a while ago with a gasless welder. Worked well enough. Still needed to grind it flush . Bit of sanding and a lick of paint. Couldnt tell id cut the panels up.

[hooki]

As the others have said gasless will definitely work. I had a cig135 running the gasless wire and I found it burnt through alot and left a pretty bad finish. I now have a bigger gas mig welder and it makes the job so much easier. After extensive rust repairs on two suzuki's I would never run gasless wire again. If you're planning to get gas down the track you may aswell just do it now and buy some wire and a gas bottle at the same time.

[Mickc]

Gasless will work its main advantages are better in windy conditions and the wire has
more deoxidizing agent and cleansing agent which helps welding rusty dirty panels

But I prefer to do proper prep and run gas, especially on thin sierra panels as I can use 0.6mm wire. (and still burn through.)

[banga]

if you have used a mig with gas you will most probably hate it. i changed over to it cause i couldn't justify the bottle rental and i really don't enjoy using it i struggle getting my welder cold enough now. but in saying that it does work ok just a bit of getting used to.

[31zook]

Once you go gas you will never go back.

[Dcraw]

Thanks for the replies, i might have a bit of a play on the old body with the gasless and see how i go.
Anyone heard of the brand weld master and if so are they any good?

[banga]

Have you welded much before Id hit someone up and have a go on their gasless before you commit cause gasless write is like $80 your more than welcome to have a go on my machine but mines a 250amp so I really struggle getting it cool enough.

[sideways]

I hate my gassless, I wish I had have just bought a proper one in the first place.

[Jackson]

31zook wrote:

Once you go gas you will never go back.

damm righ gurlfrennnnn.

[banga]

sideways wrote:

I hate my gassless, I wish I had have just bought a proper one in the first place.

amen to this i want to go back to gas again want to work out a deal with my work for bottle rental.

[jdk81]

sideways wrote:

I hate my gassless, I wish I had have just bought a proper one in the first place.

x infiniity

Gasless is so rubbish.
Its fine in a pinch, if you had to weld thin sheetmetal in windy conditions.
I prefer arc welding over gasless mig.

If you can't afford gas, you can't afford a mig.

There's some nice cheap arc welders around. Some of the Chinese multi-function welders are nice value.

On topic, yes you can weld the panels, heat control will be challenging.

Take pics!!!

[jimmy91]

glassless are pieces of fucking shit. spend 1000 and get something that will work like a lincoln

[jimmy91]

jdk81 wrote:

sideways wrote:

I hate my gassless, I wish I had have just bought a proper one in the first place.

x infiniity

Gasless is so rubbish.
Its fine in a pinch, if you had to weld thin sheetmetal in windy conditions.
I prefer arc welding over gasless mig.

If you can't afford gas, you can't afford a mig.

There's some nice cheap arc welders around. Some of the Chinese multi-function welders are nice value.

On topic, yes you can weld the panels, heat control will be challenging.

Take pics!!!

you serious fool? weld a panel with a arc welder. fuck me sideways

[sideways]

jdk81 wrote:

sideways wrote:

I hate my gassless, I wish I had have just bought a proper one in the first place.

x infiniity

Gasless is so rubbish.
Its fine in a pinch, if you had to weld thin sheetmetal in windy conditions.
I prefer arc welding over gasless mig.

If you can't afford gas, you can't afford a mig.

There's some nice cheap arc welders around. Some of the Chinese multi-function welders are nice value.

On topic, yes you can weld the panels, heat control will be challenging.

Take pics!!!

This.

My old $100 arc welder does better welds on everything that isn't super thin. The gassless can do thinner stuff but it just makes a mess of it. Pretty much fucked my sump the other day trying to weld the cracks up in it. I can do stuff like that with a real mig in my sleep but I cannot get a good weld out of this bloody gassless on thin stuff!

[sideways]

jimmy91 wrote:

fuck me sideways

No thanks.

[droverdave]

I have a stick welder, and its great for anything except thin. though i havent tried those 0.6? mm rods yet, that might be successfull, depending on how low my welder goes on amps.

Im considering buying a gasless mig to do some panel work, theres a few on gumtree going for under 100bucks.

I used a gasless mig in the past (with the proper flux core wire, not the "gas only" wire). it did a pretty good job, but yer you do need to clean it up a bit to get it looking good. but with panel work, especailly stuff you cannot see, its not a big drama that it doesnt look great. I'm cutting out rust in my floor in my drover, i dont care what it looks like, as long as the rust is gone and it wont come back.

I'm not sure i would build something structural with a gasless mig though...

Problem with gas, is that i will probably use the mig once in a blue moon, if that. No point having a hired BOC gas bottle costing me money.

Unless someone knows a cheaper alternative to getting a Gas bottle that isnt hired, and that isnt those disposable bottles from bunnings?

[shep]

I pay $14 a month to rent a gas bottle, it is bugger all and makes welding heaps easier. I tried gas less once and would rather rub the bits together really quickly in a attempt at friction welding then have to use gas less again.

It has been 2 years since I picked up my current bottle so have payed about $350 in rent that is less then a pack of smokes a week plus I claim the cash back as a work expense so it is pretty much free in the long run

[jdk81]

As per my comments before on the multifunction arc welders... I should have been more specific.

Like the cigweld 175i is capable of mig, tig and arc, so too are some of the cheaper chinese units (which are surprisingly good value).

If you are really cheap, gasless would be fine on thin sheetmetal.
I would suspect gasless it's like jail sex... rough, nasty and not very pleasant, but gets the job done.

For anything else, id be using the arc welder if you cant afford gas.
Those little disposable bottles work out to be very expensive, but possibly ok if doing a little job. I don't know how long they last.
Depends how much welding you are doing.
If you are having difficulty with the mig burning holes, you could try a disposable CO2 bottle, as they cool it down significantly.

[got_bar_work]

U can buy a bottle for less then $400 and just pay for refills
If u do a lot of welding i recon the gas would pay for itself
The 0.5kg gasless wire are expencive as. 2 of them cost more then a 5kg of gas wire

[Mickc]

"U can buy a bottle for less then $400 and just pay for refills "

True in NSW and refills currently in NSW only, can freight or post for refill but $$$+++.
If I can get refills local I'd buy one.

There is another option, buy a CO2 cylinder for home brew and used CO2 with solid mig wire.
Haven't actually tried it as disadvantage is weld is hotter and increase splatter.

Hotter is not good for thin panels in fact I should be running straight Argon but BOC
wants $110 Argon Lite (argon Co2 Mix) and $155 Argon 100% on 'E2' size bottle.

Note Dia 0.6mm wire I mention in previous post is solid core gas only welding

[jdk81]

Mickc wrote:

There is another option, buy a CO2 cylinder for home brew and used CO2 with solid mig wire.
Haven't actually tried it as disadvantage is weld is hotter and increase splatter.

Hotter is not good for thin panels in fact I should be running straight Argon but BOC
wants $110 Argon Lite (argon Co2 Mix) and $155 Argon 100% on 'E2' size bottle.

Note Dia 0.6mm wire I mention in previous post is solid core gas only welding

What pressure is the CO2 for home brew at?
Normal CO2 for mig etc requires a gas heater, try it on a welder without the heater, the CO2 really cools the weld down, way more than argo light etc.

[banga]

Mickc wrote:

"U can buy a bottle for less then $400 and just pay for refills "

True in NSW and refills currently in NSW only, can freight or post for refill but $$$+++.
If I can get refills local I'd buy one.

There is another option, buy a CO2 cylinder for home brew and used CO2 with solid mig wire.
Haven't actually tried it as disadvantage is weld is hotter and increase splatter.

Hotter is not good for thin panels in fact I should be running straight Argon but BOC
wants $110 Argon Lite (argon Co2 Mix) and $155 Argon 100% on 'E2' size bottle.

Note Dia 0.6mm wire I mention in previous post is solid core gas only welding

Co2 will cool the weld down and you need to run a heater. Pure argon should weld hotter than argon co2 mix. If your just welding steel its just a waste of money to run pure argon unless welding stainless or ally.

[31zook]

Mickc wrote:

"U can buy a bottle for less then $400 and just pay for refills "

True in NSW and refills currently in NSW only, can freight or post for refill but $$$+++.
If I can get refills local I'd buy one.

There is another option, buy a CO2 cylinder for home brew and used CO2 with solid mig wire.
Haven't actually tried it as disadvantage is weld is hotter and increase splatter.

Hotter is not good for thin panels in fact I should be running straight Argon but BOC
wants $110 Argon Lite (argon Co2 Mix) and $155 Argon 100% on 'E2' size bottle.

Note Dia 0.6mm wire I mention in previous post is solid core gas only welding

Really? Any proof CO2 works? And you should be running Argo mix for solid core wire. Pure argon is for TIG.

I'm happy to be proven wrong I've just never heard of this being done before.

[ball]

31zook wrote:

Really? Any proof CO2 works? And you should be running Argo mix for solid core wire. Pure argon is for TIG.

I'm happy to be proven wrong I've just never heard of this being done before.

X2

The guys that buy the CO2 from me tend to use is when they are trying to achieve a high deposit rate. CO2 is significantly cheaper than any of the argon mixes. I am pretty sure the CO2 is used on a flux cored wire not a solid.

I had a very experienced welder complaining that his machine was playing up. It ended up his apprentice had put pure argon on the mig and he was trying to weld steel with it. Said it just didn't work at all. Took him a while to notice the cylinder was wrong.

[banga]

ball wrote:

31zook wrote:

Really? Any proof CO2 works? And you should be running Argo mix for solid core wire. Pure argon is for TIG.

I'm happy to be proven wrong I've just never heard of this being done before.

X2

The guys that buy the CO2 from me tend to use is when they are trying to achieve a high deposit rate. CO2 is significantly cheaper than any of the argon mixes. I am pretty sure the CO2 is used on a flux cored wire not a solid.

I had a very experienced welder complaining that his machine was playing up. It ended up his apprentice had put pure argon on the mig and he was trying to weld steel with it. Said it just didn't work at all. Took him a while to notice the cylinder was wrong.

I never personally used co2 just from what I read my machine has a plug for a heater to use for co2 I dont think many people use it cause its crap. And I have used pure argon steel it welds lile shit. Pure argon is not just for tig but you need it for ally mig and stainless mig.

[Mickc]

Didn't think any body else is intrested but.. just some links from Google

Miller welders forum
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/co ... g-with-CO2

CO2 Solid Core Wire manufacture
http://www.fairweld.com/mig_co2_weldingwires.html

From (happy to be corrected because of poor) memory of welding/gas theory co2 supports/induces a higher wire burn temp than argon.
Think mention early increased splatter, this is in part due to higher burn temp.

Also remember, heaters are required for poor CO2 gas in early days because of water in the mix.

Pretty sure some of the gear we import at work from China are mig with CO2

ball, your comment on argon was intresting as one of my gas suppliers stated 100% argon is used by his panel shop customers.

Imagine it would be bad too if mig was not set up to use it.

[ball]

Mickc wrote:

ball, your comment on argon was intresting as one of my gas suppliers stated 100% argon is used by his panel shop customers.

Imagine it would be bad too if mig was not set up to use it.

Just out of curiosity who is the gas supplier.

If you look at all the literature from BOC there is nothing to recommend pure argon for mig welding steel.

The argoshield range of gas from boc is a mix of argon, co2 and oxygen. They have several variants and 1 even has a bit of helium in it.

Pure argon is not listed for GMAW welding of steel at all. There is a listing of recommended and suitable in the table but argon isn't there.

GMAW brazing lists argon but I am not familiar with that process. This may be the process that the panel shop uses.

[31zook]

Pure Argon is used for alloy and stanio Mig work.

I've had to swap gas numerous tines for doing both those metals.