[SuziBlu]

Anyone here running MSD, Im having a problem with my new just installed 6AL-2

Seems it does not like the sierra/vitara dizzy, under test mode, the spark is scary, but hooked up its wek and intermitant ?

Anyone have any thoughts.

[JrZook]

Sure you got the dizzy connected up the right way?

[want33s]

MSD helpline to the rescue.
Problem is all sorted now and car is flying off sand dunes.

[SuziBlu]

I found the answer on Pirate4x4, when reading the instructions, it says 2 wires for magnetic piuck up, 1 for hall effect and 1 for points.

There are two wires coming from the dizzy, so I asumed mag pickup.

Jas said its hall effect, but it had me stuffed, only 1 wire for hall effect.

MSD helpline didn't say anything, but on Pirate a bloke had had the same prob, hall effect wire went to the red/brown dizzy wire, points went to the positive activation wire, broom.

The lower end response amazes me, its more like a diesel torque now. MSD state to go for 50-60 thou gap for under 10-1 compression, so as the 1.6 is pretty low, I cranked up to 60 thou gap, spark is super bright and cracks hard.

Idle along soft sand, have to, on a track where lots of people getting bogged, in 3rd high range, easy as piss, put the foot down an off she goes.

Stock Maruti gearing with 33s.

I do like MSD.

Not flying off yes, Jas, need the long travel suspension, landings are a but on the hard side.

[d1mitch]

whats msd ignition did you buy? and where from?

[SuziBlu]

6AL-2 with a 8252master coil

Brand new off ebay, Rocket Industries is the dealer in AU for MSD, others have them but.

Its pretty heavy duty, draws .7 of an amp per 1k rpm

[bristlenose2008]

[quote="SuziBlu"]###/quote]

how does one tell that the ignition is a bottleneck to current performance?
what prompt someone to change from stock ignition?

[shep]

Why the fuck would ya go to a points dizzy

[SuziBlu]

Its not a points Dizzy Shep, its the electronic suzi dizzy, its Hall Effect, and you use the single Hall effect wire to the dizzy, and the points wire to the positive activation, this triggers the Hall Effect wire.

bristlenose, i think the stock ignition is shit, MSD is far far better. I have no proof except the seat of my pants dyno.

After about 3k revs the stock ignition falls in power, MSD stays at the same from ignition to engine cut out at WOT.

[JrZook]

Hall effect dizzy hey? Any pics of it? From what I recall all Oz spec G series engines bar the late G16B all run variable reluctance (magnetic) pickups.

With the 4 cylinder you will get 2 ignition events per engine cycle, so therefore at 3k RPM the coil will have a maximum time of 10ms to charge. The stock coil only needs 3ms or so to charge therefore it cannot be loosing ignition power at 3k RPM. Even at 8k RPM you still have nearly 4ms of charge time.

Where did you find that info? I would love to read it.

[SuziBlu]

I tried to hook up via magnetic, it didnt work, got a mechanic to come look at it, he said I had hooked it up right, took a look under the dizzy cap and said thats Hll Effect. I don't know.

Contacted someone on here who would know, same thing, hall effect.

So I looked and looked on the net, Pirate4x4 gave me the answer, hook up as Hall Effect, followed the instructions, and broom.

I do not want to get into another shit fight with you JrZook, you hate everything I say, and im fukd if im going down that road again, I like MSD, you like poking shit at me, sweet.

[Gwagensteve]

I don't think JR was poking shit at you, he was asking where you got the data that the stock Ignition system falls in power over 3K. Theres no need to be so defensive. It doesn't matter why you like MSD - you might like the colour of the box - it really doesn't matter, until you promote it to someone else, then the information you use to recommend the product is important.

I'm not going to respond further in this thread - I personally couldn't care a less either way about MSD, but if you want to convince someone the stock parts are shit, you'd be best to have something to back it up (other than a seat of the pants dyno.

Steve.

[SuziBlu]

I took it as the hall effect/mag thing.

So i have to go back years to find something, ok.

If i were to say extractors are better than stock, no one will counter, same as I say this tyre is better than stock, diff lock is better off road than open, all will agree, but open my mouth about stock ignitin being less than modern upgrades, everyone jumps at me.

Not being defensive at all, dont like it, dont read or answer, simple.

[royce]

Nah that's rubbish.

What Steve says is right, when you post something and say its better then either the reasons for it have to be sound or otherwise its just another story that gets out of hand and a heap of people believing it will do something for them.

There are a million ways that any MSD system beats the stock stuff hands down but the reasons you give dont really mean much.

[JrZook]

SuziBlu wrote:

I do not want to get into another shit fight with you JrZook, you hate everything I say, and im fukd if im going down that road again, I like MSD, you like poking shit at me, sweet.

Dude I honestly do not understand you sometimes. I'm no expert but I do have slightly more knowledge in this stuff than the backyard mechanic or salesperson as I'm making these sorts of things from scratch. Trying to spread some know how in efforts that it may help you stray away from all the fictional and wives stories out there. Many older people seem to react this way towards me. Is it the fear that some young fella may know something more than their years and years of knowledge? I do not know. It's especially evident around motorsports for some reason.

The info and calculations I posted is not made up stuff, it's real. I presented realistic, factual info so you could try to understand a bit more on how these things work firsthand instead of just reading what ever is on the box and possibly miss interpreting it.

Mate sit back and have another read of what I posted and point out all this "hate" I have towards you because I obviously can't see it.

No boasting here but I do teach and lecture at uni and get many many questions and queries from students. I cannot just come out with some made up stuff with no backup or data as its pointless and it will come back to you.

Enough said, I'm still intrigued as to what pick-up sensor you have in your dizzy. If you put up a pic it will clear up that confusion. Just because the MSD only works with this dizzy using the hall effect input does not necessarily mean it is a hall effect dizzy. It may just mean that the input signal is compatible and the VR magnetic sensor interface just doesn't suit the signals from the Suzuki VR dizzy. VR signal conditioning is tricky at best! Just have a look at all the issues I had in my EFI thread.

2.5c
Dan

[jdk81]

SuziBlu wrote:

If i were to say extractors are better than stock, no one will counter

http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35548

As per ignition upgrades
why did you do it?
Are you trying to sell them?
Or just felt like spending money and really happy with it?
Was your car down on power (sucky ignition system)?

[Rhinoman]

I would suspect that its a standard SJ dizzy which means its a Hall Effect but with the signal conditioning circuit still installed which has an open-collector output. That would mean that although its actually a VR you would need to hook it up as per a Hall-Effect.

[want33s]

Rhinoman wrote:

I would suspect that its a standard SJ dizzy which means its a Hall Effect but with the signal conditioning circuit still installed which has an open-collector output. That would mean that although its actually a VR you would need to hook it up as per a Hall-Effect.

BINGO.....
As the OP said, it is hooked up as Hall not actually Hall.

[royce]

and FWIW the big thing with MSD systems is in the name, Multiple Spark Discharge, so they dont fire the plug once, they have a few goes at it, as well as (I think) they step the supply voltage up into the coil for some more bang.

How much of a difference it makse I have no idea, I would assume your average carby G series may not get complete burn from a single fire of the plug

[jdk81]

royce wrote:

How much of a difference it makse I have no idea, I would assume your average carby G series may not get complete burn from a single fire of the plug

But once there is partial combustion in a spark ignition engine, the AFR inside the chamber and/or immediately surrounding the plug is different, and most likely too low to support flame propagation of a second spark.

If it doesnt fire on the first spark fair enough, a second spark will help (because it missfired initially)
But you have out of spec ignition problems anyway.

[Rhinoman]

I looked into the multiple spark thing a few years ago but I couldn't see that it would make much difference the length of a conventional spark is such that the second spark would be so retarded that it would be too late to have much effect anyway. Partial combustion is usually an AFR issue, once the mixture is lit then that flame propagates the burn rather than the spark itself. I suspect that the MSD is using Capacitive Discharge which is usually quite short and then they are using multiple short sparks to 'elongate' the spark.
You shouldn't ever have a spark issue if your existing system is in good order as its a fairly low pressure environment, that said I have had noticeable gains on two valve per cylinder engines in the past, seat of the pants gains - a smoother engine with better pick up, never any measurable performance gains. It is an area where manufacturers have put in a lot of development to improve emissions and power since the SJ was released. I intend to do some R&D on my own 8V, at work I've been designing a new ECU that runs a couple of ion-sensing coils which has been interesting, I haven't yet checked how much energy is in a stock coil.

[Rhinoman]

You have this one?

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorspor ... ev-limiter

That's a lot of money! if you have a programmable advance curve then you should follow the mod published elsewhere on here to lock up the stock advance. Then you can experiment with the timing curve from a fixed reference. Is the coil built into that unit? the spec states 135mJ per spark which would be coil dependant.