[remickz]

Hi Everyone,

I have had a good week, followed by a bad weekend with the Vitara.
Finally got it running again (Gearbox Problems, found my solenoid connectors full of grease), but ran into problems Saturday night.

Quick history - about 1000kms ago the Vitara had a new head gasket / timing belt etc all done by a family friend. When i got the car back, it had a squeaky accessory belt when cold (was a new belt, alternator / water pump - would squeal for about 1 minute upon cold start).
Saturday morning i got around to tightening the belt, and about 35km's later, on the highway 100kmh 3000rpm i started getting a squealing noise again, but didn't sound like the same belt noise. Pulled over, engine didn't want to run too well unless i gave it some RPM. Ended up just putting it on a trailer and taking it home.

You can hear in the video below, the car is running extremely rough, and making some very sharp noises (especially towards the end of the video)



Can anyone lead me in the right direction? I have never had any bottom end problems with any of my cars, so unsure if this is bearings gone, or dreaded key way failure on the crank.

Obviously i will need to tear it down a little and begin looking, but its always good to have some suggestions, as i am sure there is a lot more knowledge on this forum than what i have.

Thanks a lot guys.

Otherwise...... One Vitara LWB AT rolling shell for sale hahah.

[ozhummer]

Take off the belt, can you spin the alternator, water pump easily? My guess is the alt bearings are stuffed if it was sitting for a while...

[ozhummer]

Sorry, just watched you vid and saw the belts are off... Its very noisy! I would suggest you remove the cam cover and check the clearances. Should be about 3-4 thou 0.8-1.2 mm

Also takeo off the no 2 cam journal second from front and check for excessive wear the HG may have been put on the wrong way around which blocks the oil gallery to the front cam bearings..

[remickz]

Thanks for your help, I will add it to my list.
The guys here at work think it might be the timing belt tensioner gone, and the belt all over the place.
I will remove the timing cover tonight hopefully and see if there is anything obvious, and then start looking in to these other possibilities.

Thanks again.

[Scrawny]

Haven't watched the vid but I'd suggest taking that cam belt cover off as you've said. It's probably the crank keyway or belt tensioner

[want33s]

ozhummer wrote:

Sorry, just watched you vid and saw the belts are off... Its very noisy! I would suggest you remove the cam cover and check the clearances. Should be about 3-4 thou 0.8-1.2 mm

Be careful when giving specific advice....... 3-4 thou is nowhere near 0.8-1.2mm.

Here is a list of G16B clearance specs.
http://www.suzimotive.com.au/technical.htm

[ozhummer]

woops - you are right ... just shows you need to always should check advise ... 3 to 4 thou is 0.08 to 0.12 mm just like the tech sheet you posted ... Although the vid has a nasty knock knock noise ..

[remickz]

Hi Guys,

Got most of it removed out in the dark with my head lamp on last night.
Radiator shroud, fan, belts and all the cover bolts are out.
Just need to remove the crank pulley now to get the cover off.

From peeking through the valve cover, it does look like the tensioner and spring are still intact, but there was a small amount of deflection on the belt, i could push it and wiggle it with my finger.

I know from when i did my timing belt on my 1JZ soarer, the belt was extremely tight, but they had a hydraulic tensioner, so that might be the difference.

Tonight i plan on getting the cover off, then i will know if the tensioner has given way. I will then line the timing marks up and ensure it is still in time. If not, i know the keyway has probably given way.

Do i need to line up or mark anything on the crank pulley before removal; i couldn't see any marks that correspond with the timing marks on the valve cover.

[ozhummer]

TDC on the crank, with the dot on the cam sprocket under the arrow on the cam cover - would make it easier to check and setup.

[Scrawny]

To remove the outer crank pulley you only need to undo the small bolts around the main crank bolt

[remickz]

Hi Thanks guys, i realise i only have to remove 5 bolts to get the crank pulley off (hex bolts from what i have read?), but i just wanted to check is there a mark on the crank pulley that should line up when i refit.

For example, when i put the car back together, i line up the crank and cam gears to represent TDC. I would then put the cam cover back on, which has timing marks (0, 10, 20) which i assume the cam pulley should have a mark which would line up with the 0 on the cam cover, for when the timing is checked with a light.

Thanks for your help.

[remickz]

Hi Guys,

Sorry about the delay getting back to you with this issue, there has been a lot of rain, and no 8mm socket to get the pulley off, all sorted tonight though.

Im going to have a guess the idler bearing shouldn't be this loose:
I was able to unscrew the bolt holding it in just by hand (as in the video)


Should there be this much slack in the timing belt? Seems too much too me, but i am not sure? Doesn't feel like it has lost tension at all, i cant force the adjustment to move by hand.


The vehicle is still in time, the marks lined up perfectly.
Can i just assume the bearing was loosening, and at high speeds spinning, possibly touching other metal caused the god awful noises?
Could the loose belt be why it was running very rough? Should i tighten the tensioner, and just check it hasn't slipped a tooth?
Its a new idler bearing, should it be fine to keep using? Loctite the bolt in slightly?

Thanks for your help

[bazooked]

thats way to loose!, bearing shouldnt be like that at all, tighten the bolt up and see if it still flops around, if it does im guessing the bearing is stuffed, and the timing belt should be alot tighter than that to.

[remickz]

Thanks for the response.

In my mind the problem is solved, loose bearing is the sharp metallic noises, and loose belt causing possible slackness and timing all over the place.
I have gotten the correct bearing bolt tensions, just wondering if i should use some loctite, i have had problems before where the valve cover bolts were always vibrating loose, so i put a small amount on them and that fixed the problem

[remickz]

No Luck,

I have put it back together and started it (no accessory belts attached), but there is still a high pitch squealing noise which is on and off.
The engine feels normal, revs fine, just has this noise which doesn't sound right.
Does it sound like a possible failed bearing?
When i did the bearing up, there was still a small amount of wobble, but it was extremely minimal.
There was a very small amount of oil/grease seepage from one of the side bearing seal, unsure if that would indicate too much undesired work on the bearing (it is only 1000km old).
There was also wear in the Cam cover plastic housing from the bearing and the belt (only in the bearing location).

Is it worth finding a new bearing to try on? Wonder where my best bet over the weekend would be to get one.

[remickz]

Well Ozhummer, i hate to say this (for the sake of my own engine), but i dare say your were right.
It would seem that there is no oil flow to the center of the cam shaft.
I am guessing two seperate problems here, tensioner not done up properly, and head gasket on the wrong way around.

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The Cam lobes are like sand paper, and the cap i took off has just been shaved down from wearing out.

Whats is my options now? Obviously i need to re-do the head gasket, and have some decent machine work done on the head?

Burn the car?

[Scrawny]

If the cap looks like that so will the head under the cam. I'd be hunting down a new (or second hand) head and camshaft

[remickz]

Just looked at some pics of head G16B head gaskets online, are you sure its possible to put it on the wrong way around, it looks like it would be a hard thing to mess up?

Anyway the damage is done, i guess its time to find a new head for it?

Just for my sanity is there anything else that could have caused this? it must be the head gasket, or something else blocking the oil gallery for it to only occur on the one section of the cam shaft.

[ozhummer]

I went through this with my restore... I know how you feel...

I rooted a brand new head and camshaft .... all because of a 3mm hole.. It's so easy to put the HG on ass about..

I had to source a new cam and buy another new head and full gasket set ($750) - yours looks a bit worse than mine, there is no way to fix either the head or cam.

You will need to remove the engine and completely flush it ! - there will be metal and alloy dust throughout the motor - I had to remove the crank, pistons, clean the bearings and everything. Lucky mine is now all back together and is running like a brand new motor.

It's a lot of labour, a lot of cost and I know how you feel! ....

If you want to fix, I could possible point you in the direction of a machinist who has the heads on the shelf. You might be best off do a rebuild!

[dtchch]

remickz wrote:

Just looked at some pics of head G16B head gaskets online, are you sure its possible to put it on the wrong way around, it looks like it would be a hard thing to mess up?

Easy as mate, its if you put the gasket on upside down not back to front, everything lines up perfect but that tiny oil port hole.

I'd be looking for a cheap motor from a wreck, its not a big job to swap a head, just need a new set of head bolts, cam seal and rocker cover, intake mani & exhaust gasket you should be away laughing if it is in decent condition.

Maybe talk to someone who reconditions heads, they might be happy to trade in?

[remickz]

I think it would be best to track down a motor and just swap the whole thing in, maybe do the front and rear seals, timing belt etc and hopefully end up at the same point i am now, only about $1000 later. Looks like ebay wreckers are selling them for about $650.

[atari4x4]

becareful of cracked blocks, would almost be worth chasing down a low km g16b baleno motor if you plan on keeping it for a bit.

[dtchch]

atari4x4 wrote:

becareful of cracked blocks, would almost be worth chasing down a low km g16b baleno motor if you plan on keeping it for a bit.

+1 Mine had a cracked block when I bought the car Your block should be good, if you do remove the head go over it very closely and look for any cracks.

The heads and blocks are known to crack between cyl 3 + 4 (like mine was) due to the exhaust manifold being too restrictive, why we put extractors on.

If you have the money and can find a whole motor, that'd be the fastest route. Good chance to replace some parts while the engine is out, water pump, cambelt, clutch etc

[JrZook]

dtchch wrote:

The heads and blocks are known to crack between cyl 3 + 4 (like mine was) due to the exhaust manifold being too restrictive, why we put extractors on.

News to me.......

[Virt]

Crap now I'm paranoid, just slapped a Baleno motor in mine and put a new head gasket in (of course)
There is a tiny squeal when I start the engine for about 2 seconds then everything's sweet, but better safe than sorry I think, when I open it up this afternoon, is it obvious to tell? Where is the little oil hole I'm looking for?

Thanks in advance!

[dtchch]

Easy way to tell mate is to remove the fuel pump relay (so it doesn't start), remove the rocker cover and turn it over you should see oil being pumped onto the cam and into the area - it doesn't blast out at high pressure so don't worry.

If there's a short squeal check your accessory belt tensions, air con and alternator. I certainly wouldn't assume you have the same problem Virt

[dtchch]

JrZook wrote:

dtchch wrote:

The heads and blocks are known to crack between cyl 3 + 4 (like mine was) due to the exhaust manifold being too restrictive, why we put extractors on.

News to me.......

Plenty online about it on G16A/B motors. Mine had a cracked block between cyl 3 & 4, as well as a cracked exhaust manifold between the same two cylinders. The heads crack between the exhaust ports apparently

[Virt]

dtchch wrote:

Easy way to tell mate is to remove the fuel pump relay (so it doesn't start), remove the rocker cover and turn it over you should see oil being pumped onto the cam and into the area - it doesn't blast out at high pressure so don't worry.

If there's a short squeal check your accessory belt tensions, air con and alternator. I certainly wouldn't assume you have the same problem Virt

Yeah you're right, I'm still learning to trust the installation, its only a couple of hundred KMs old
Will check my belts first I think!

[ozhummer]

I still think keep your block and internals - check and clean them and find a good head and cam..

[remickz]

Hi Guys,

Just thought i would let you know, i got back from holiday a week ago, had a 2nd hand head waiting for me.
I had it rebuilt and swapped over, and the Vitara is back up and running again.

With the amount of work and maintenance done on this now, it should be lasting me for a while without hassles