[dtchch]

Gidday from NZ fellas, I've enjoyed reading your website tonnes of knowledge on it!

I have a 91 SWB Escudo on 29" muds, has a bash plate but other than that shes standard.



I use this truck for bashing up riverbeds and 4wd tracks to go hunting, other than that its my daily driver.

Now I've been tossing up whether to do some work on this truck or not, and have decided that I will be lifting and putting some 31's on it - because at the end of the day I can always take the upgrades off it should I decide to get a new zook.

What I'd like to know is whether or not I need to go for a full lift kit such as this - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =604122531 which includes spacers and brackets?
Or if I can get away with putting in a set of 3" springs and new struts?

Keep in mind I'm not after insane flex and attempting crazy 4WD tracks - I simply want to get an already capable truck higher off the ground and make it more capable

Will the 3" lift get the 31's on there? I'm not opposed to cutting the gaurds, I'd rather avoid a body lift at this stage if I can but may look at it later.

Also, will I need to look at changing the gearing? I do a lot of mileage travelling around hunting here, already I sit at about 3500RPM at 100KM in 5th if that's going to be worse I may have to consider it.
From my understanding you can get kits which change the ratios in the transfer box - this obviously changes the ratio in 4wd but does it make the gearing friendlier for 2wd open road driving?

Cheers for any advice guys much appreciated, I'll carry on reading up

[Bazuka]

dtchch wrote:

already I sit at about 3500RPM at 100KM in 5th if that's going to be worse I may have to consider it.

By putting larger tires on you will in fact decrease the RPM.

[dtchch]

Oh true! For some reason I thought mine revved relatively high due to the larger tyres already on it, well that's good to know. I think I'll be fine without gearing, low range is pretty good I think with the bigger tyres it will still go really well.

Cheers

[DarkHorse]

The car revs high because it's geared low (relative to other cars) to compensate for the relative lack of power (or more specifically torque.) Bigger tyres will drop the cruising revs to a more comfortable level (usually around 3,000rpm at 100kmh with 31s on). The trade-off is that offroad when you are driving slowly the motor is also spinning slower, meaning you are nowhere near the useable power band and have to do a lot of work with the clutch (if manual) to stop it stalling. It also makes the car an absolute slug off the line.

Being an Escudo I'm not 100% what diff gears you'll have - is it auto or manual? If you have 4.6:1 diff ratios you can replace them with 5.12s which will help things in both high and low range. The only transfer gearing you can get is a 4.24 reduction, but that only effects low range, you just have to live with the road (lack of) performance.

Re: suspension - that 3" 'kit' rings a few alarm bells - I've never heard of a transfer drop bracket, which is actually a replacement crossmember, but would have a bunch of flow-on implications that aren't dealt with. The balljoint spacer is called a heim joint spacer when no heim joint is provided, illustrating that the seller doesn't actually know what he's selling and is probably copy/pasting from a Calmini listing. There are longer rear arms but no replacement front arms. The diff drops look very long, which can cause further issues (ask me how I know!) especially if the transfer is sitting lower. Driveshaft spacer is only 10mm whereas Calmini's is closer to 25mm... All that said it does address some of the issues involved with a 3" lift, but if you're spending that sort of money I'd be looking at the Clamini kit personally.

Tyres are a bit of a flow-on issue - even with a 3" suspension lift you won't be able to run 31s without a lot of scrubbing. Even with the best offset rims (around -12) you'll still need to wind the steering stops out to stop them polishing your chassis, and either fit massive bump-stop extensions or get busy with a grinder and hammer.

Not trying to discourage you from any of the above at all - on the contrary I think you should go to town on it, but be aware that there is little you can do that is just bolt-on and nothing else. Everything has consequences and implications and one mod invariably leads to another, and another and so on.

So welcome to the forum, read as much as you can, search for anything you're not sure about, ask questions if you can't find what you need, and take heaps of pics as you go!

[Gwagensteve]

I'm just going to throw some stuff out here.

Stepping up from a stock rim and 29" tyres to 3"of lift and 31" tyres might not really improve capability all that much. Sure, you're adding 1" of diff clearance. That's a lot, and it will help you clear obstacles if diff clearance is currently a problem. However, other than that, (and bearing in mind you can get 1" out of a diff shave alone) where is the "extra" capability coming from?

All up, you are going to loosing gearing. That's going to suck a bit - you'll be moving faster at all times. THat might be fine in mud, but if it's steep or technical, the tyre size increase might make the car harder to drive - it's harder on the clutch and you have to be more conscious to keep the revs up.

The larger tyres offer more rolling resistance and offer more drag. they also lower ground pressure. That's a really double edged sword. In dry,hard terrain you can lower ground pressure heaps and continue to gain traction. but if it's wet, there's almost no such thing as too much ground pressure. Smaller tyres will actually increase traction.

Adding suspension lift has very little, if anything, to do with fitting larger tyres, so that's a separate issue. do you need 3"more compression travel? I don't know, If your terrain requires you to hit stuff really fast, then the lift will provide the added compression travel to maintain control of the car at high speed, and landing big hits, but other than that, it will do very little to add capability or clear larger tyres.

I have travelled faster off road in a vitara with a Calmini 3" lift and 31" tyres than in any other car - which is really cool, if you like going really fast, but that's not the same as capability.

if you want to run 31's for capability, then you need to re-gear the transfer case to get the gearing into a range where you can get control back.

This is not directed at you dtchch, but many people believe that lift and tyres makes for a better car. It's not always the case. It will look cooler, but that's not the same as an effective car. Some of the ugliest/stockest cars I've seen have been the most effective.

Just some food for thought. A poorly constructed/thought out 3" lift and some 31's on a Vitara/Escudo on their own might do nothing to make it better at all.

Steve.

[dtchch]

Thanks heaps for the info guys, just the sort of opinion I was looking for! Bit of a reality check.

What would you suggest for getting the most out of the truck for river bashing? I want a bit more body height and diff clearance can only help.

Realistically I don't do a lot of super slow technical driving because my main use for the truck is to cut down my walking time into areas - sure some of the 4wd tracks are interesting but more often than not they are either river bed/boulders or flat rutted 4wd tracks.

Perhaps I should look at replacement struts and a 50mm lift, then see if I can fit 30" tyres on as mine sort of need replacing.
Bonus with that is it wouldn't require certification for the modifications...

Decisions...

More than anything it's a bit of a project for me, but I guess I don't want to be putting money into it for no reason.

[Pico42]

If you are tackling any Canterbury rivers, I would start with a good snorkel and a few cans of silicon spray through the engine bay.

The FTS kit is quite popular in CHCH, I have seen a few of the local suzuki club there with them fitted and they get by without adjusting their gearing. But crawling up bigger bouldered rivers is much much better with lowered gearing.

31's and 3" suspension lift means you will need certification, so you may as well put a body lift in there too and get it all certified at once to minimize rubbing. I can't recall if 2" suspension means certification - it is a bit of a grey area nowadays.

The 30' option on a 2" suspension lift is probably a good intermediate step for you and where you want to drive your vehicle. We did a lot of reasonably serious tracks on 29's and 2" suspension (actually no lift for many years) - driving with a bit of nous goes a long way. You can also cobble the 2" lift together from other vehicles (commodore and Nissan laurel springs etc).

The advantage of the bigger tyres and lift for your river work is that the tyres air down better to soak up the rocks, the body is out of the water more to prevent you getting pushed downstream by the current (ever driven upriver early in the morning with no problem, then find everything too deep on the way out because of the additional snowmelt flow during the day?) and you can match some of the bigger ruts.

[dtchch]

Cheers Pico for your input.

I'd like to be able to tackle the likes of the Rangitata, Wilberforce, Dobson etc all have well formed 4wd tracks but boulders and river crossings. All going well a snorkel is on the shopping list for next week

I'm leaning toward 50mm springs and new struts as a first move, I can continue using my current tyres and the money saved from not having to buy a lift kit can be used on buying a diff locker for the rear.
I guess there's nothing stopping me further down the line from buying 3" springs and the other parts I need should I decide to go ahead further with modding.