[JonnoR]

Mike57 wrote:

Look at the King Pins as well. Shimming these will help if not already done. Anything that adds weight at the end of the axle will cause the problem. Mine did it when I fitted manual hubs.

Cheers mate, will have a look what's in the assembly on the weekend. Does removing the shims from the swivel hub have any negative effects on the kingpin bearing though?

[Mike57]

Jonno

Yes, for the Jimny you add shims but for the Siera you take them away. Not sure about the Coily but it will be obvious when you pull out the king pin. If you add too much tension to the bearing it will wear out pretty fast. For the Jimny Suzuki have a service bulletin and specify the tension that can be applied. Take a look at it, Zooknutter linked to it a few items above. I am not sure about the coily but you do need to understand how much tension can be applied. The shims will come in a variety of sizes so for the coily you will also need to work out what thicknesses are available.

Mike

[Jezza86]

this morning i charged my tyres with 32 PSI
the 30x9.5's at higher pressure didnt wobble as much and were more manageable but nowhere near fixed.
i theorise the lower pressure allows more lateral movement, increasing the maximum amplitude of the harmonization (it is worse at low pressure)

pointing my finger at castor, as i dont think thats 1.0 degree +- .5degree as it says in the manual

[JonnoR]

Mike57 wrote:

Jonno

Yes, for the Jimny you add shims but for the Siera you take them away. Not sure about the Coily but it will be obvious when you pull out the king pin. If you add too much tension to the bearing it will wear out pretty fast. For the Jimny Suzuki have a service bulletin and specify the tension that can be applied. Take a look at it, Zooknutter linked to it a few items above. I am not sure about the coily but you do need to understand how much tension can be applied. The shims will come in a variety of sizes so for the coily you will also need to work out what thicknesses are available.

Mike

K Mike, cheers for the info and help.

[Daleyzooker]

Hi all just wondering what you guys might think the problem is but I have a 1992 soft top sierra and sometimes not all the time when I hit a bump with my left hand front wheel I get a hair raising death shake in the steering for which I have to pull over to make stop I have driven through it once but was quite difficult and when I stop or slow down enough it goes away and drives ok again my mate tells me this could most probably be caused by diff camber/castor and to fix I should take it somewhere and get wedges just wondering if anybody else had had this problem before and if so what caused it because to be honest it freaks me out its like having tank slap on a bike doing 200 except I could be doing anywhere between 40 klms and 100 please help

[christover1]

We know it as death wobbles on here.
It is a common problem, with many possible causes.
Have a search through these topics
search.php?keywords=death+wobbles&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

[christover1]

On my Sierra, it was just the Steering damper needing replacing.
But there are many causes, and all steering parts should be checked.

[Daleyzooker]

Thanks guys I guess it's just a process of elimination staring with an alignment and balance

[christover1]

Is car modified, lifted, fitted with larger tyres etc?

[Daleyzooker]

Only 235s federal couragias but did it on standard road tyres also

[Gwagensteve]

Start with what Suzuki tell you to start with- Kingpin starting torque and the condition of the swivel seals. Throw the steering damper away, or leave it off until you have got rid of the wobbles. It's only a masking the actual problem. It's the equivalent of turning up the stereo to cover a gearbox whine.

Steve.

[Daleyzooker]

Thanks

[Daleyzooker]

I do need to rebuild swivel hubs and what is kingpin starting torque

[atari4x4]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38238&hilit=Kingpin+starting+torque

[Daleyzooker]

Thanks guy really helpful

[atari4x4]

auszookers for the win, tis where all the tech is at.

[Daleyzooker]

Yes proud to be a member and proud to own a zook

[christover1]

Daleyzooker wrote:

Yes proud to be a member and proud to own a zook

Most of us let our Zooks own us

[Daleyzooker]

Lo I guess that's what I'm doing I bought her knowing that she did this she's got a few bugs but she is mine and eventually ill get her to the point of having to trailer her to the parks lol

[tassie jeeper]

didn't know leaf sprung axles were prone to D/W

on our jeeps the main culprit was the the track bar or pan-hard rod or flex in the tie-rod itself (usually only present with big heavy tyres)
first thing that comes to mind is replacing all the leaf bushes and the "tie-rod ends" in your steering
are your tyres ballanced?
has a weight fallen off?
have u got a clump of mud stuck to your rim?

best of luck with it

[Gwagensteve]

Tassie, this topic has been so done to death now it's not funny. If the kingpins and seals are in good condition, sierras are very tolerant of out of balance tyres. I know this because most of the cars running 35" tyres in the club have never ever had a tyre balance.

To eliminate death wobble you can try anything you like first, but it's kingpin preload and seal condition that will fix it. If your car has become intolerant of out of round tyres, worn shackle bushes, small changes in caster etc, its a sign its time to do the kingpins and seals. Many cars will have never had them looked at.

Steve.

[dzasta]

I bought an 89 Sierra and it had the death wobble. It cost me a lot of money to fix. First they said wheel bearing, then king pins, tie rods. The thing that fixed it was new steering damper. Did everything but still had wobble until I replaced steering damper.

[Daves4wd]

Suzuki kid had a mega D/W and it had new swivel seals and kingpins... What fixed it was new bushes on the shackles.... Jack up the front and let the diff hang and wheels hang in the air and see what has play in it then go from there...

[Daleyzooker]

Bran new 2" lifted springs and shackles and bushes in front

[Daleyzooker]

Will do cheers

[OVERKILL ENG]

Everyone is right the kingpin bearing preload is the biggest reason but after time and a lot of shakes the balls actually close up slightly and you can't get the correct preload .. A way around this with out changing the balls is when you do the alignment toe it out 1-2mm that will put artificial load on the bearings and stop the shake tyre wear isn't dramatically increased either.. This is a bandaid fix for the problem, obviously the right preload is the correct way of solving the problem ...

[tassie jeeper]

OVERKILL ENG wrote:

Everyone is right the kingpin bearing preload is the biggest reason but after time and a lot of shakes the balls actually close up slightly and you can't get the correct preload .. A way around this with out changing the balls is when you do the alignment toe it out 1-2mm that will put artificial load on the bearings and stop the shake tyre wear isn't dramatically increased either.. This is a bandaid fix for the problem, obviously the right preload is the correct way of solving the problem ...

this is very interesting i will keep this information stored away do u know if this is a common fault across other makes like hilux etc just incase anyone i know has an issue i can suggest this straight up.

[Gwagensteve]

I know that I sound like a broken record, and please don't think I'm showing disrespect for the experiences of others, but I need to point out that just because you had a workshop replace the kingpin bearings doesn't mean it's done anything to improve their preload.

Many people (including mechanics) do lots of their work by "feel" and this can be very misleading. There is a preload/starting torque for pretty much everything that moves on a sierra, and unless you abide by the FSM, odds are whatever it is you're replacing/working on will be too loose. Workshops also do things the quick way, and as an example, to do starting torque on a knuckle, you have to drop the tie rod. However, you don't need to drop the tie rod to swap the kingpin bearings, so that leads me to think that starting torque will almost never get checked when the bearings are replaced.

Something to look out for too: I've recently pulled out three broken sierra kingpins. Two from my car, and one from the trolley tug. They break between the pin and the cap, so it's not detectable visually, even with the kingpin in your hand, but it will lead to play and therefore a loss of preload on the bearing.

I'm not denying that tie rod ends, steering box adjustment, tyre balance, toe, caster, and whether you have a unit sticker on the car all might contribute to death wobble, but I can say that if the seals and pins are tight, sierras can be VERY tolerant of crappy tyres and flogged out steering.

and at the risk of really, really sounding like a broken record, you'll note in the section of the service manual for what to do to fix death wobble, the steering damper isn't mentioned. In my opinion, the steering damper is fitted to prevent excessive kickback when being driven offroad. it does this by having soft low speed valving, but very stiff high speed valving - so it's easy to steer the car at "normal" speeds, but when a wheel hits a rock and tries to whip the steering wheel out of your hands, the damper fights this and slows the wheel. It should have very soft damping at low speed and therefore so little to fight the oscillation that turns into death wobble.

I'm suspicious that like everything aftermarket or painted a shiny colour for the sake of marketing, often aftermarket dampers will be stiffer than the standard damper even at low speed and that's why they are more effective for smothering death wobble.

Steve.

[OVERKILL ENG]

tassie jeeper wrote:

OVERKILL ENG wrote:

Everyone is right the kingpin bearing preload is the biggest reason but after time and a lot of shakes the balls actually close up slightly and you can't get the correct preload .. A way around this with out changing the balls is when you do the alignment toe it out 1-2mm that will put artificial load on the bearings and stop the shake tyre wear isn't dramatically increased either.. This is a bandaid fix for the problem, obviously the right preload is the correct way of solving the problem ...

this is very interesting i will keep this information stored away do u know if this is a common fault across other makes like hilux etc just incase anyone i know has an issue i can suggest this straight up.

Yes we have found this problem in all brands. Again remember this is a band aid fix for the problem ..the correct preload is the correct way of fixing the problem but this will get you out of trouble..

[sideways]

I think the wobbles have loosened the brake adjusters on the LJ (LJs have front drums that you have to manually adjust every now and then). Since I put the new suspension in the wobbles have gotten really bad and the brakes have taken a massive nose dive.