[Critical Energy]

Tried the search already.

Replaced the brake hoses, bled brakes, with help of the mrs, then again with a mechanic, but still not right.
When first hit the brakes there's nothing, pump brakes like 3 times and they work kind of, I know there's no brake booster but even so they're pretty crap.
Is that air in there somewhere? And if so, any special tips to bleeding? Or should I get a mechanic to look at it seeing as they are kind of important

Rich

[atari4x4]

adjust the rear shoes right up & then adjust the handbrake so it's fully engaged @ 7-8 kicks.

some good info in here, even though it's about a vitara. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41468

[DAB]

ok, i do this about 10 times a day every day,,,,

get someone in the car, top up your brake fluid and KEEP IT TOPPED UP.

get the person in the car to pump the pedal and when they have a hard pedal hold it down firm. release the bleed nipple on the rear drum, do this 10-15 times to make sure all air and old fluid is out the system, repeat this on the other side rear. (KEEPING THE BRAKE FLUID TOPPED UP) then do the same on the from but you will need less pumps and release on the from, maybe 8-10.

note, when the pedal is pressed down, then do the nipple back up before releasing the pedal from the floor! this is to assure air is not sucked back into they brake line

[DAB]

atari also has a good point, the rear shoes will need to be adjusted correctly else your rear wheel cylinders will be pushing there pistons out a long way to apply pressure. to do this you release the handbrake cable to slack then adjust the shoes in the drums, then adjust the cable after the shoes to suit, i would have to say that 5 clicks is considered the idea amount on a handbrake as standard but it also comes to personal opinion.

but atari doesnt like the colour green

[DAB]

DAB wrote:

atari also has a good point, the rear shoes will need to be adjusted correctly else your rear wheel cylinders will be pushing there pistons out a long way to apply pressure. to do this you release the handbrake cable to slack then adjust the shoes in the drums, then adjust the cable after the shoes to suit, i would have to say that 5 clicks is considered the idea amount on a handbrake as standard but it also comes to personal opinion.

but atari doesnt like the colour green

do not just wind up the hand brake cable, it it the wrong way of doing it, its a noob's way, its wrong! if you think this is the correct way of doing it then i suggest you spend 4 years learning to do the bloody job properly

[atari4x4]

how about you fuck off idiot, should have left you on my ignore list

if you did bleed brakes 10 times a day you'd know that suzuki's only have one rear bleed nipple & did you miss the bit where i said to adjust the drums first then bring the handbrake up, the FSM states 7-8 clicks from memory.

Critical Energy, IIRC you've just done a NT to WT diff swap... I'm not really up to speed with the sierra's but I'm certain there is a mod to the master cylinder that needs doing, something about a spring & ball from memory, will have a look see for you.

EDIT: scratch that, it's for when fitting rear disks to a unboosted master cylinder sierra.

[DAB]

sorry dude, work on Toyota's the principle is still the same.

[atari4x4]

so you missed the bit when he said he's bled them with his missus & his mechanic mate.

EDIT: This post was made by DAB who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

[Critical Energy]

Handbrake is on the transfer on mine so less to stress about.
I'll check the rears, hasn't thought about that, fronts are defo ok.
Yeah just did WT swap, front brakes are what was on the car, rears came with the diffs, haven't checked them at all
Thanks for the help.

Rich

[DAB]

its hard to diagnose a issue with a vehicle without it being infront of you, i dont know how his misses or his mechanic bleed brakes, the sound of the description sounds like there could be air in the system and surely it would make sense to start from the beginning, i would assume the brakes was working fine before he either ruptured his brake hose or decided to replace it for whatever reason otherwise he surely would of said no? so process of elimination

brakes did work fine,
brake hose replace,
bleed brakes,
brakes not working,
goes to floor after couple pumps then seems to work,

first diagnoses without knowing any common faults on this vehicle would be brakes not bled properly.

if the brake are bled properly then continue into further diagnosis.

im not trying to upset you atari, im just trying to do my bit to help.

[Jezza86]

fyi after 200ml of fluid coming out the rear left i was no longer getting bubbles in my jimny. but i also had a load proportioning valve to bead.
you dont have one of those by anychance? they have a point to blead them from on the jimnys atleast.

[Critical Energy]

DAB- pretty accurate mate, replaced flexible hoses only. Bled the brakes with the mechanic the way you said to, maybe not as many times as you said to tho.
Will adjust rears and try bleeding again, to me it seems like air in the system due to it firming up after pumping brakes a few times. (Based only on my motorbike days)

Rich

[christover1]

Block one hose at a time, with brake line clamps.
Then when pedal works well, it will tell you where to look for problem.

[31zook]

You can bleed them by yourself, I have a bottle with a magnet on it and i sit it above the nipple. This way if any air gets into the line it will float up and not back into your caliper. One thing you watch is how far you crack the nut, if you have it 5 spins out it can pull air back in around the thread, I run roughly 1/2 a turn. Order is also important, when I'm doing a full round of brake lines, I bleed each wheel just a bit so that there is fluid in each line, this limits the chance of sucking air from the top of the system and never getting off the rear brakes. Low pads produce spongy brakes.

DAB it sounds like you work at a Toyota dealership? So I assume your pretty good at sweeping floors and locating oil filters? There is unemployed tasmanians on this board who could run rings around you.

[droverdave]

do you still have manual adjusters on the rear or auto ones?

I thought all the 1.3L suzukis had auto adjusters. (mine is a 1.3L drover, and for some reason is a 1.3L with a manual adjusters on the rear brake shoes)

If you do have the manual adjuster...

In my experience the rear drum brake manual adjsutment has a massive effect on brake pedal feel. Even one click on the adjster made a huge difference.

You want to adjust so that you can only just get the drum back over the brake shoes. there may even be a bit of resistance to ge them on, but then when they are on, they move freely.

I had simliar dramas, coudlnt get a decent pedal feel, bleed the brakes many times, then adjusted the drums right up, and instantly a nice pedal feel.

[DAB]

SERIOUSLY WTF IS WITH ALL THE HATE?

im sure there are many mechanics out there that could run rings around me. if they live in Tasmania surely thats not my fault???? (but thank you anyway for your input 31zook, was very helpful)

way to go with the profesinalism AZ Crew. i guess your gonna either kick me from the forum or simply delete this post.
im sorry "critical energy" if my help was so un-useful,

thought this site was about shareing experiances and helping others?????

still trying to work out why Atari would attack on me like that :-/ if you wanna shed some light on it feel free!
or is it AUSZOOKERS policy to randomly attack there members???

[atari4x4]

i simply told you to fuck off because you continued to use that green coloured font looking for a bite, it's annoying as fuck & fucking hard to read & if you think that was an attack, you've got a lot to learn princess.

if you don't know what you're talking about it's best to not post... just like your "overheating coil" theory in this thread viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41491&p=752186&hilit=coil#p752186

[31zook]

Just don't act like you know everything and we're so blessed to have your wise words on the board.

And it's called 'AZs trial by fire' 60% of the time, it works every time.

[whincup]

i have the exact same symptoms as you. found that my rear shoes keep adjusting as far out as they can go. turned out my drums and shoes are worn beyond service limit. worth a look...

[gypsy]

Any chance your master could be sucking in air

[Critical Energy]

How would it do that? It has plenty fluid in it.

[Critical Energy]

Just a thought, if i block the line to the rear brakes, and bleed the fronts ok would that mean the rears are the ones that are fucked?

[christover1]

yes, that will tell ya which end to look at

[gypsy]

They can suck air in thru the back seal